SimHQ E3 GT5 extended play report

[CoolColJ]

http://www.simhq.com/_motorsports5/motorsports_150a.html

Closing Comments

After the team hogged three GT5 2D demo cockpits for over an hour (and drew a crowd that put more people into Sony's GT5 3D demo queue), the SimHQ racers came away with some very positive impressions of the demo's AI, physics and tire modeling, at least on paved surfaces. In addition, after longer exposure to the game, the force feedback and wheel resistance from the Logitech DFGT seemed to be quite good — certainly more robust than in GT5-Prologue. The Sony handlers did inform us that the physics engine of GT5 is a complete re-work over the Prologue edition, and it certainly seemed that way. We hope that the in-game experience with a G25/G27 or Fanatec wheel is even better — especially if in-game options for H-pattern, sequential or paddle shifting are offered, and those products' clutch pedals are still supported. It would be interesting to do a side-by-side comparison with Forza Motorsport 3. Or the just announced Forza Motorsports 4. Or both.

We're all looking forward to testing the finalized GT5, as the short taste we got at E3 seems to indicate that fans of PC racing simulations could soon have a compelling reason to put a PS3 on their Holiday wish list.

 

[trk29]

Thanks good read.

 

[ultram]

Thanks alot. Was nice to read what real die-hard sim fans think of the demos.

 

[amar212]

Those guys are really really really annoying with constant comparasions with FM series regarding physics.

If they are serious - which they clearly and most obvisuly are not - they would be "simulation aware" and both realise and noted it is completely uncomparable, especially if we're talking about the wheel support.

Forza 3 never settled the issue with wheel support, no matter if it is MS wheel or Fanatec. Steering buffer is till there, controller-drivers are still much faster than wheel drivers and force feedback effect is still a joke when compared to solutions offered on both PS3 and PC.

Untill Microsoft decide to honor one of it's greatest franchises with console/hardware that will actually support true force feedback effect and when T10 decides to make Forza lateral-physics being fully released, there is no way on Earth somebody serious can draw the line between this two series.

SimHQ have been a completejoke with this comparasions and I really can't understand why is their voice so influential.

It is like going into debate about both series simulational aspects when I played both with the wheel and other side never touched anything but controller.

Come on..

Oh, and this too:

SimHQ's initial E3Expo 2010 report on Gran Turismo 5 for the Sony Playstation 3 was based on a short, two minute period behind the wheel in the opening hour of E3

BUt those two minutes were obvisuly enough to write down this:

and certainly seems to have physics and eye candy on a par with GT 5's main rival, Forza Motorsport 3

Really? Maybe I should invite those guys to come to my house and try to drive both games in cockpits with the wheels and make some serious comparations regarding those "eye candy" thingie when all assists are off.. Untill then I guess everybody will just quote thier "simulation hard-core experts" and further furnace the Troll Wars.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Those guys are really really really annoying with constant comparasions with FM series regarding physics.

If they are serious - which they clearly and most obvisuly are not - they would be "simulation aware" and both realise and noted it is completely uncomparable, especially if we're talking about the wheel support.

Forza 3 never settled the issue with wheel support, no matter if it is MS wheel or Fanatec. Steering buffer is till there, controller-drivers are still much faster than wheel drivers and force feedback effect is still a joke when compared to solutions offered on both PS3 and PC.

Untill Microsoft decide to honor one of it's greatest franchises with console/hardware that will actually support true force feedback effect and when T10 decides to make Forza lateral-physics being fully released, there is no way on Earth somebody serious can draw the line between this two series.

SimHQ have been a completejoke with this comparasions and I really can't understand why is their voice so influential.

It is like going into debate about both series simulational aspects when I played both with the wheel and other side never touched anything but controller.

Come on..

Oh, and this too:



BUt those two minutes were obvisuly enough to write down this:



Really? Maybe I should invite those guys to come to my house and try to drive both games in cockpits with the wheels and make some serious comparations regarding those "eye candy" thingie when all assists are off.. Untill then I guess everybody will just quote thier "simulation hard-core experts" and further furnace the Troll Wars.

I think your being on the "hyper-critical" side.

I don't understand your indignation at GT5 and FM3 comparisons.

They are the two flagship console racers. What else are you going to compare GT5 too? Mario kart on the Wii?

Regaurdless of one's own opinion of either, I don't see how this is not fully expected.

So far, such as it is, its the most informative piece I have seen yet on the driving aspects.

 

[Timppaq]

the street cars are where GT5 really shows its strong physics engine, because of the reduced grip level of the street tires and minimal downforce on these high-powered cars.

Nice to hear, but no suprize 👍

And they think the NASCAR's sounded great.

 

[CoolColJ]

The one instance of the Stock car I heard from the E3 sounded really good - the car was idling and the guy gave it a short sharp jab of the throttle - deep and throaty roar. Especially considering it was on a live stream.

The sustained throttle at high rpm wasn't as nice though

 

[Daverytimes]

After the team hogged three GT5 2D demo cockpits for over an hour (and drew a crowd that put more people into Sony's GT5 3D demo queue), the SimHQ racers came away with some very positive impressions of the demo's AI, physics and tire modeling, at least on paved surfaces. In addition, after longer exposure to the game, the force feedback and wheel resistance from the Logitech DFGT seemed to be quite good — certainly more robust than in GT5-Prologue. The Sony handlers did inform us that the physics engine of GT5 is a complete re-work over the Prologue edition, and it certainly seemed that way. We hope that the in-game experience with a G25/G27 or Fanatec wheel is even better — especially if in-game options for H-pattern, sequential or paddle shifting are offered, and those products' clutch pedals are still supported. It would be interesting to do a side-by-side comparison with Forza Motorsport 3. Or the just announced Forza Motorsports 4. Or both.

Exactly what i expected the guys at Inside Sim Racing to say, but they did not. A very good read nonetheless.

 

[jabofu]

Those guys are really really really annoying with constant comparasions with FM series regarding physics.

If they are serious - which they clearly and most obvisuly are not - they would be "simulation aware" and both realise and noted it is completely uncomparable, especially if we're talking about the wheel support.

This is getting really really really annoying with the hate for Forza Motorsport 3 in this forum. And that somebody like YOU even hop on this fanboy-train is just lame.

What you and others are trying to do is, to argue that Forza is like some NFS or Burnout. It is the best console sim-racing game at the moment. If GT5 comes out, it maybe change. Who will win in a direct comparison between GT5 and Forza is still open.

Its easier to not accept any competitor for GT5, so it can be the best racing game on all aspects. Thats a really poor way of argueing.

Forza is the only game, you can compare to GT5 so far. Sure it is not so good looking like GT and is not as sim-like as some wish. But in terms of feedback you get from the cars, it is way better than GT5 in my eyes. You feel what the car is doing, with controller and wheel. Especially with the Porsche Wheel.

 

[alba]

It's not a Forza hate. It's more of a hate on Microsoft's part for gimping all the racing games on their console because of the hardware problems.

 

[snake900]

This is getting really really really annoying with the hate for Forza Motorsport 3 in this forum. And that somebody like YOU even hop on this fanboy-train is just lame.

What you and others are trying to do is, to argue that Forza is like some NFS or Burnout. It is the best console sim-racing game at the moment. If GT5 comes out, it maybe change. Who will win in a direct comparison between GT5 and Forza is still open.

Its easier to not accept any competitor for GT5, so it can be the best racing game on all aspects. Thats a really poor way of argueing.

Forza is the only game, you can compare to GT5 so far. Sure it is not so good looking like GT and is not as sim-like as some wish. But in terms of feedback you get from the cars, it is way better than GT5 in my eyes. You feel what the car is doing, with controller and wheel. Especially with the Porsche Wheel.

amar212 said Forza 3 is one of the only games (along side MW2) he has been playing extensively in the past few months.

OH NOEZ, HE'S A TOTAL GT5 FANBOY!

 

[Imari]

I thought that was a good article. They compared it with the premier game in the genre at the moment, and much of the time it came up similar or superior as we would expect it to. Given the limitations they were operating under with limited ability to try different things and in short two minute racing bursts, I'm not sure how much more praise you could expect from them.

The only real negative they had was about the gravel physics, which have been routinely terrible in GT ever since they were introduced. I hope like hell they're improved, but I give props to the authors of the article for at least being honest about the situation as it stands.

 

[Mr Latte]

Didnt find the article that bad myself. Is it not a good thing that they try to make a point of reference or comparison to FM3, morso for reasons its a game many of us would of tried or perhaps own. I dont thnk it was them making comparison to play silly VS games.

FM3 indeed has areas worth criticising but again GT5 will have plenty also.
However lets not forget FM3 also included a full analogue clutch which was quite a shock that Fanatec done a deal with them particulary just like GT their FM series official wheels only had two pedals.

 

[sparkedglory]

This is getting really really really annoying with the hate for Forza Motorsport 3 in this forum. And that somebody like YOU even hop on this fanboy-train is just lame.

What you and others are trying to do is, to argue that Forza is like some NFS or Burnout. It is the best console sim-racing game at the moment. If GT5 comes out, it maybe change. Who will win in a direct comparison between GT5 and Forza is still open.

Its easier to not accept any competitor for GT5, so it can be the best racing game on all aspects. Thats a really poor way of argueing.

Forza is the only game, you can compare to GT5 so far. Sure it is not so good looking like GT and is not as sim-like as some wish. But in terms of feedback you get from the cars, it is way better than GT5 in my eyes. You feel what the car is doing, with controller and wheel. Especially with the Porsche Wheel.

Did you even read the post?

 

[Mr Latte]

This earlier report from SimHQ had some really eyebrow rising things said that would make you queston their expertise...


They talk about the 3DTVs and what strikes me as really stupid for an article is to not be factually accurate about the price of 3DTVs and they commented that the glasses were wired not wireless (duh to stop people stealing them) and lastly to somehow mention that the Bravia 3DTVs will only work with 3D content.

So they can come off with some major goofs...

"First, it would cost about $3,000 for a base model 40” 3D TV at this point in time. Our understanding is that these TVs are only compatible with 3D data, so could only be used for special titles; an HD TV can be used for any title. Lastly, the glasses were wired to the TV; extension cables may be required for comfortable living room use."

 

[G.T.Ace]

This is getting really really really annoying with the hate for Forza Motorsport 3 in this forum. And that somebody like YOU even hop on this fanboy-train is just lame.

What you and others are trying to do is, to argue that Forza is like some NFS or Burnout. It is the best console sim-racing game at the moment. If GT5 comes out, it maybe change. Who will win in a direct comparison between GT5 and Forza is still open.

Its easier to not accept any competitor for GT5, so it can be the best racing game on all aspects. Thats a really poor way of argueing.

Forza is the only game, you can compare to GT5 so far. Sure it is not so good looking like GT and is not as sim-like as some wish. But in terms of feedback you get from the cars, it is way better than GT5 in my eyes. You feel what the car is doing, with controller and wheel. Especially with the Porsche Wheel.

Dude turn around, the point is over there, you missed it.

EDIT: I totally agree with amar, these comparisons are so useless.

 

[Captain Roh]

A very balanced review and great read. Thanks for the link Col. I think we'll see this in the news section before long

Its nice to get a proper subjective opinion. Its also nice to hear that there are some people besides GT fans who know how important tyres are. Its obviously going to 'feel' like forza 3 if you take a NASCAR round topgear on R3's (insidesimracing). The real test is putting the right car on the right tyres and driving it to the limit. Sounds like these guys had a lot of fun doing that!

My favourite quotes from the article:

NASCAR: Sony also reported that they've programmed a lot, if not all, of NASCAR's track rules into the game when using Cup cars, which is great news for oval racers. It's certainly understandable that the GT5demo at E3 would offer no way to alter or tweak a car's chassis setup, and while we suspect that stagger or asymmetric camber or wedge can't be programmed into GT5'ssetup engine, it sure would be a nice addition if it did ? that one addition might make GT5one of the better NASCAR games out there.

Super GT: One nice-to-see physics aspect was the movement of the visual scene in conjunction with undulations in the pavement on the Mulsanne straight, which also upset the taut suspension and caused some wandering of the front end as the downforce and load level on the front tires varied. Great stuff!

ZR1: Joe noted that while the powerful ZR1 could approach 200 mph on the Mulsanne, the car caused the driver a great deal of trepidation as the nose started to get light and the car darted around on the imperfections in the pavement.

Ferrari 458: Best of all, Chunx had some real "Jeremy" moments as he performed a lurid power slide out of Hammerhead that were very difficult to maintain, easy to over-cook and felt very realistic. We think that the street cars are where GT5really shows its strong physics engine, because of the reduced grip level of the street tires and minimal downforce on these high-powered cars.

 

[scope72]

This earlier report from SimHQ had some really eyebrow rising things said that would make you queston their expertise...


They talk about the 3DTVs and what strikes me as really stupid for an article is to not be factually accurate about the price of 3DTVs and they commented that the glasses were wired not wireless (duh to stop people stealing them) and lastly to somehow mention that the Bravia 3DTVs will only work with 3D content.

So they can come off with some major goofs...

"First, it would cost about $3,000 for a base model 40” 3D TV at this point in time. Our understanding is that these TVs are only compatible with 3D data, so could only be used for special titles; an HD TV can be used for any title. Lastly, the glasses were wired to the TV; extension cables may be required for comfortable living room use."

Oh, that is bad.

Enjoyed reading the new article though. But I wonder why the guy Chunx gave every impression except one. Is he their "resident racer"? They may just be taking his impressions and printing them.

 

[Earth]

"First, it would cost about $3,000 for a base model 40” 3D TV at this point in time. Our understanding is that these TVs are only compatible with 3D data, so could only be used for special titles; an HD TV can be used for any title. Lastly, the glasses were wired to the TV; extension cables may be required for comfortable living room use."

Are you kidding me? I was looking up 3DTVs the other day and I came across a very nice 240hz 1080p LED 55" Samsung 3DTV for... $2700

I cant believe people still overpay for HDTVs.

 

[Devedander]

Exactly what i expected the guys at Inside Sim Racing to say, but they did not. A very good read nonetheless.

I am always suspicious when people are told something and then confirm it... I hope SimHQ is right and it really is, but it is interesting how one group notices no difference and another agrees there is... might be comfirmation bias.

 

[Raitziger]

Those guys are really really really annoying with constant comparasions with FM series regarding physics.

Thing is that people can think simHQ and ISR guys are biased a they put forza so high in physics scale. I think they are not just paying attention or they can not tell when something is realistic or not. Steering buffer, too high grip and weak FBB just are quite easy to notice. Also i do not really think ISR rating scale makes much difference, if they give number on car models and with quick comparison some cars look like cartoon models of real cars(e.g s2000 which looks like it has been in a axident comapared to forza 2 model)

Still i respect both sites. But if major physics flaw in "simulator game" like forza comes up, please note this in your publications afterwards. Now it looks like ISR knows problem is there but MS shuts their mouths.(wheter it is the truth or not)


WRC physics sound similar that in GT4. Especially in GT4 if you put two much power tires would loose much more grip than in other games. Its like PD had modelled motion grip and static grip too far in gravel.(in GT4)

 

[paskowitz]

Are you kidding me? I was looking up 3DTVs the other day and I came across a very nice 240hz 1080p LED 55" Samsung 3DTV for... $2700

I cant believe people still overpay for HDTVs.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+46%22+Class+/+1080p+/+240Hz+/+3D+LCD+HDTV/9954002.p?id=1218200365690&skuId=9954002

And that is still to much. People say "oh no 3D is uber expensive", "no it is not. Its a 300 premium".

 

[VXR]

Still i respect both sites. But if major physics flaw in "simulator game" like forza comes up, please note this in your publications afterwards.

What is this major flaw in FM3?

 

[scope72]

Those guys are really really really annoying with constant comparasions with FM series regarding physics.

If they are serious - which they clearly and most obvisuly are not - they would be "simulation aware" and both realise and noted it is completely uncomparable, especially if we're talking about the wheel support.

Forza 3 never settled the issue with wheel support, no matter if it is MS wheel or Fanatec. Steering buffer is till there, controller-drivers are still much faster than wheel drivers and force feedback effect is still a joke when compared to solutions offered on both PS3 and PC.

Untill Microsoft decide to honor one of it's greatest franchises with console/hardware that will actually support true force feedback effect and when T10 decides to make Forza lateral-physics being fully released, there is no way on Earth somebody serious can draw the line between this two series.

SimHQ have been a completejoke with this comparasions and I really can't understand why is their voice so influential.

It is like going into debate about both series simulational aspects when I played both with the wheel and other side never touched anything but controller.

Come on..

Oh, and this too:



BUt those two minutes were obvisuly enough to write down this:



Really? Maybe I should invite those guys to come to my house and try to drive both games in cockpits with the wheels and make some serious comparations regarding those "eye candy" thingie when all assists are off.. Untill then I guess everybody will just quote thier "simulation hard-core experts" and further furnace the Troll Wars.

Personally, I have never understood the need for rivals in human psychology. Seems like an illogical hindrance in modern times.

 

[Raitziger]

What is this major flaw in FM3?

Steering buffer on wheels (permanent aid)

 

[VXR]

Steering buffer on wheels (permanent aid)

Ah. I play with a controller as I don't like game wheels. I find the controller does a brilliant job of emulating the flow of a car and responds really nicely to throttle and steering inputs. I don't think I care anymore for arguing for one or the others, but GT4's cars felt laboured and from FM2 and now 3, they just feel more responsive and fun.

 

[mykem]

It's not a Forza hate. It's more of a hate on Microsoft's part for gimping all the racing games on their console because of the hardware problems.

Exactly and adding insult to the injury, people (from SimHQ and ISR) that should be aware of such shortcomings not only ignore the fact but still use Forza 3 as the pinnacle of console sims hence the comparison to GT5. It's probably a great game but both T10 and especially Microsoft need to be reprimanded for deceiving their fans (or at least those who are aware of it).

Still the SimHQ overview of GT5 seems much better presented and thought out than ISR. At least they've mentioned the fact that the tire modelling in GT5 is still in the work since the demo unlike previous GT game (except Prologue) doesn't include tire wear/temperature which to me would exponentially change the driving feel/physics.

I am always suspicious when people are told something and then confirm it... I hope SimHQ is right and it really is, but it is interesting how one group notices no difference and another agrees there is... might be comfirmation bias.

There's also the possibility that the guys at ISR are not well accustomed to Prologue's physics. The guys from SimHQ on the other hand (at least Chunx) have used Prologue quite a bit.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Thanks for posting as I found the article one of the most interesting article about the physics engine so far.

Having said this im always wary of listening to other peoples opinions on physics engine. I remember prior to FM3 being released those who played it said it was more sim like compared to FM2. Upon actually playing FM3 I found that opinion laughable!

I really wished someone would confirm that the G25 is compatitible with GT5. I have a brand new boxed G25 in my cupboard which i've had for nearly 1yr now ready for GT5. I have the money ready for a Gameracer cockpit but I don't want to pay £300 and find the G25 doesn't work. Unless I read confirmation im going to have to wait until GT5 is released before buying my cockpit.

 

[Dravonic]

I really wished someone would confirm that the G25 is compatitible with GT5.

It is.

It's compatible to every demo, prologue and full GT since 4 as far as I know. Probably even 3. I don't see any reason why this would change.

 

[mykem]

It is.

It's compatible to every demo, prologue and full GT since 4 as far as I know. Probably even 3. I don't see any reason why this would change.

I would second that- I was using the G25 with Prologue (I sold the PS3 recently but not the G25) and the TT demo (even GT4) with no compatibility issue.