slick tyres really coming back in 09?

[Rocket Punch]

Just caught this piece of news about Schumi will be testing slick tyres on the Ferrari F2008 at Catalunya.

A Ferrari representative said “Michael Schumacher will be testing with our team on Wednesday. He will mainly focus on the development of slick tyres - the tyres that will be used in 2009. Felipe Massa will be testing on Monday and Tuesday while Kimi Raikkonen will be in the car on Thursday.” - source

So is slick tyres really confirmed for 2009?

 

[Blake]

Not officially confirmed but Bridgestone have been making development tyres for another session of testing and of course the feedback has been quite good so it seems pretty likely that we’ll see the return of slicks next year.

11 years of grooves and finally back to slicks. Should be good.

 

[mustang245]

Nick Heidfeld has tested them during winter already. IMHO, slicks should have returned with the ban on TC & engine braking. The cars are obviously struggling for traction.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Not officially confirmed but Bridgestone have been making development tyres for another session of testing and of course the feedback has been quite good so it seems pretty likely that we’ll see the return of slicks next year.

11 years of grooves and finally back to slicks. Should be good.

That makes me feel so old the fact I remember the original fuss about going to grooves. And I'm only 17

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The cars are obviously struggling for traction.

You mean drivers e.g. Massa

 

[Omnis]

No, not just Massa. Almost all of the cars are sliding through the corners like crazy. I'd love to see slicks come back, but where will Ecclestone put his precious stripe?

The only bad thing about this is that we won't be able to judge tire wear from our television screens.

 

[Nitrof1]

damn it. this thread reminds me that good old f1 days. slicks, no tc old QLF system and schumi...

 

[ExigeEvan]

No, not just Massa. Almost all of the cars are sliding through the corners like crazy. I'd love to see slicks come back, but where will Ecclestone put his precious stripe?

White side walls. Bridgestone unpainted black.

Stylin'.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Almost all of the cars are sliding through the corners like crazy.

I think that adds to the racing, since there will be more of a chance to pass when someone screws up. But I'm not sure if bringing back slicks would decrease those possibilities much.

 

[Nitrof1]

slick tyres have been forbidden because formula 1 cars were getting faster and faster and it became much dangerous and mortal. right?
so nowadays formula 1 cars are getting slower and slower. thatswhy there's no need to be forbidden slick tyres. lol thanks fia for ruining f1 all the way!

 

[Sureboss]

No, not just Massa. Almost all of the cars are sliding through the corners like crazy. I'd love to see slicks come back, but where will Ecclestone put his precious stripe?

I can suggest some places

 

[Motominded]

IMHO, slicks should have returned with the ban on TC & engine braking. The cars are obviously struggling for traction.

YES!

 

[Rocket Punch]

Nick Heidfeld has tested them during winter already. IMHO, slicks should have returned with the ban on TC & engine braking. The cars are obviously struggling for traction.

I am sure slick is making a come back, its just that I am not sure if it has been confirmed for 09.

If I recall, there are talks about further reducing the aero of F1 cars and could be as much as 50%. It will be logical to bring back the slicks to compansate the loss of aero by increasing the mechanical grip.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

How are they going to reduce it to 50% ?

 

[Blake]

ARTICLE 3: BODYWORK AND DIMENSIONS

The purpose of the regulations under Article 3 below is to ensure no car may generate downforce in excess of 12500N at any time.

That’s about 1275kg of downforce. Currently the cars generate over 2000kg of downforce at high speed, I believe.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

So I'm guessing there is a way to measure the downforce on a car?

 

[J-PaP]

of course there is. put a car in a wind tunnel. simulate 300km/h for eg. and measure the weight of the car at that instant.

 

[Sharky.]

The only bad thing about this is that we won't be able to judge tire wear from our television screens.

Yes we will, with the absence of TC you know someone's on worn tyres when they *try* to hold (or catch) a drift each time they reach a long sweeper

 

[Blake]

of course there is. put a car in a wind tunnel. simulate 300km/h for eg. and measure the weight of the car at that instant.

That doesn’t help. You can change wing angles in between sessions during a race weekend. Let alone between a test being done in a wind tunnel (that the FIA are getting from where?) and getting to the track for a race weekend…

The only reliable way I can think of to enforce a downforce limit is by checking the teams’ telemetry.

 

[J-PaP]

That doesn’t help. You can change wing angles in between sessions during a race weekend. Let alone between a test being done in a wind tunnel (that the FIA are getting from where?) and getting to the track for a race weekend…

The only reliable way I can think of to enforce a downforce limit is by checking the teams’ telemetry.

Sorry forgot to add a detail in my prior post. Any adjustable bits would need to be set to their maximum value. Hence it ensures that the total downforce is below the maximum value.

I'm guessing though with the masses of different parts each part of each car would need detailed reports of what the maximum downforce that individual part can achieved and the combinations that ensure the downforce is kept below the limit. I guess the FIA would also need to be given aero settings as well. It probably is all a bit much to control the more you think about it lol.

 

[zoxxy]

 

[ExigeEvan]

So this is all part of the improvements to mechanical grip inorder to reduce the effects of turbelence?

Low aerodynamics, higher grip, faster straightline speed?

 

[Rocket Punch]

So this is all part of the improvements to mechanical grip inorder to reduce the effects of turbelence?

Low aerodynamics, higher grip, faster straightline speed?

no.

The whole thing was never about increasing speed, but to supress it. loosing 35% downforce and give you 4 grooves back would be like telling you to drive you car with 4 spares but they are "slick" spares.

 

[Roo]

So this is all part of the improvements to mechanical grip inorder to reduce the effects of turbelence?

Low aerodynamics, higher grip, faster straightline speed?

Higher mechanical grip. The loss of aerodynamic grip will be greater than the increase of mechanical grip, giving overall lower cornering speeds.

Of course, the decreased turbulence should increase overtaking opportunities - another reason for the rule changes.

 

[ExigeEvan]

no.

The whole thing was never about increasing speed, but to supress it. loosing 35% downforce and give you 4 grooves back would be like telling you to drive you car with 4 spares but they are "slick" spares.

I understand it will reduce cornering speeds, but surely a reduction in downforce with the same power and better acceleration out of corners due to better mechanical grip levels should lead to increased straightline speeds.

And quite frankly, with the run off areas available at most places now, increased straightline speed shouldn't be so dangerous.

Higher mechanical grip. The loss of aerodynamic grip will be greater than the increase of mechanical grip, giving overall lower cornering speeds.

Of course, the decreased turbulence should increase overtaking opportunities - another reason for the rule changes.

Yeah, I think you took my "Low aerodynamics, higher grip, faster straightline speed?" as three seperate thought processes. It wasn't meant to be. The first two would aid the last. Though perhaps I should have been clearer on the second point. More mechanical grip meaning the drivers should be able to put their foot down sooner on the final bend (a hairpin in some instances) leading to a nice run onto the pit straight.

 

[Casio]

To which they have to brake earlier into.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Higher mechanical grip. The loss of aerodynamic grip will be greater than the increase of mechanical grip, giving overall lower cornering speeds.

Of course, the decreased turbulence should increase overtaking opportunities - another reason for the rule changes.

Precisely.

Mechanical grip will start working as long as your car is not stationary. On the other hand aero only work when it gets up to a certain speed window.

 

[KSaiyu]

Of more importance is reducing the dirty air from the cars. In the last GP2 Asia race of this year there was an interesting talk by the commentators about how the cars were built with a thought to creating overtaking oppurunities and not cost, as compared to the previous F3000. The result is what we've seen these past few years in GP2 races more often than not being action packed, the last race I mentioned being a prime example with moves happening through the field every lap. Compare this to the British F3 series with less aerodynamic grip but far more processions.

How this would be implemented with the proposed aerodynamic decreases in Formula 1 without neutering the current techonlogical competition that we all (I think) love will be a challenge.

 

[Blake]

More mechanical grip meaning the drivers should be able to put their foot down sooner on the final bend (a hairpin in some instances) leading to a nice run onto the pit straight.

Still with reduced downforce they’ll have almost as much trouble putting the power down. Also the 2009 rules are also intended to create more drag via wider cars. They’re increasing the maximum width by 20cm, so higher top speeds aren’t necessarily a given…

 

[Only_in_f1]