slick tyres really coming back in 09?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rocket Punch
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But i have an question out those banning aero updates. How far can you go with banning the pieces? Because what i notice is that they still use some aero pieces when they where testing the 09 configuration
 
But i have an question out those banning aero updates. How far can you go with banning the pieces? Because what i notice is that they still use some aero pieces when they where testing the 09 configuration

Outstanding question, anyone? I'm under the impression bodywork accounts for 60% of all available downforce. Will they subtract from that and leave wing surface area alone?
 
I can't wait for all these aerodynamic bits of ****e to be made illegal (next season, isn't it?).

Why? it gives manufacturers something to brag about and a advantage in races. Personally I would have just done what they did this season removing all driving aids and just telling themm to use the same motor block and tranny all year long to make them not tne them so harshly.
 
Because they make the cars look incredibly ugly. Also, aren't they causing the problem with 'dirty air'? F1s biggest problem.
 
Because they make the cars look incredibly ugly.
Yeah, you're right since. The real reason that millions of fans follow F1 is the looks. Performance? Pfsssh. The driving skills? Meh. If it ain't looking good, then **** it.


:rolleyes:
 
Outstanding question, anyone? I'm under the impression bodywork accounts for 60% of all available downforce. Will they subtract from that and leave wing surface area alone?

I was thinking the same. I'm currently watching the 1997 season and i noticed that cars appear to look to drive on rails, even though the engines were underpowered and aero wasn't really developed in those days.
 
Mclaren "Rim Blanking" close up.

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I do watch some IndyCar races thanks. Not as much as you do because its not a massive sport here in the UK but I do follow it now and again. I wouldn't sit here and say that without having any other knowledge of the series im comparing it too. I didnt say catagoricly say that IndyCar was easy to drive. Would you agree that ground effect does make cars easier to drive?

What im saying is take off the areo peices. F1 doesn't need ground effect to create overtaking. There must be more ways. F1 and IndyCar are two different things.
Ground effect doesn't necessarily make cars easier to drive if the wings don't generate as much downforce. An IndyCar obviously has aero pieces than an F1 car. That means an IndyCar doesn't get as much downforce from its aero pieces as an F1 car.

And as for why I want the FIA to bring back ground effect (IndyCar style)... It's proven technology that will allow cars to race closer. It will also allow teams to compensate for the loss in downforce from getting rid of the aero pieces.
 
Maybe it's just me but those McLaren thingies look like something out of the Death Rally or the like. Potential tools for shredding the tyres of the competitors? :scared:
 
Ground effect doesn't necessarily make cars easier to drive if the wings don't generate as much downforce. An IndyCar obviously has aero pieces than an F1 car. That means an IndyCar doesn't get as much downforce from its aero pieces as an F1 car.

And as for why I want the FIA to bring back ground effect (IndyCar style)... It's proven technology that will allow cars to race closer. It will also allow teams to compensate for the loss in downforce from getting rid of the aero pieces.

Personally I think to make the F1 cars use this technology would mean making F1 cars look and use similar physics as an IndyCar car. So basically putting an IndyCar onto an F1 grid. When Ground Effect came into F1 it made it easy to drive. Lauda was able to driver over an oil slick without lifting.(All beit in the 'Fan Car')

I see your reasoning but I can't see it happening. Its nice to watch one series of racing then to turn over and see a different series. Its like saying to WTCC, Nascar has this lets use this technology. It's not going to happen.
 
Almost too good to be true... It seems some 'new' parts might not make it onto R28b with last years tech scandal so fresh in memory. I believe Renault will ask for approval from FIA before putting suspension pieces on the car. Especially when they came so close to suffering same penalty as McLaren.

Newest speculation is that they have finally managed to implement a new type of damper which McLaren started using extensively last year. Based very much on the infamous (and banned) Tuned Mass Damper, it uses a rotating mass instead of a sprung mass, as a way to absorb suspension-movements and increase the contact patch.

Now, if they hadn't banned that TMD...

I remember reading about that Ferrari nose cone idea in the mid-Feb Autosport - at the time they were expecting it to be tested at Barcelona pre season. A quote from the article:

"It's an old idea - Eghbal Hamidy tried it at Stewart back in the 1990s - but is quite tough to make it work."

Lotus used a (very) different variation of it to create a diffusor on the nosecone back in the '70s, and Williams very recently tried it with their Walrus. Problem is that such a component requires almost-perfect planning and CFD-work, which they didn't have back then.

Could you link me to that article, though?

But i have an question out those banning aero updates. How far can you go with banning the pieces? Because what i notice is that they still use some aero pieces when they where testing the 09 configuration

They've still got the bits and bobs on it because it's not their '09 configuration - only '09 levels of downforce. So essentially, they use last year's Monza-packaging (so as not to reveal their new ones for this year) because that's roughly the amount of downforce they'll have next season.

All those pieces won't be there come the next winter-testing season.

Outstanding question, anyone? I'm under the impression bodywork accounts for 60% of all available downforce. Will they subtract from that and leave wing surface area alone?

Bodywork barely provides any downforce. All those winglets don't, either - most of them are supposed to direct airflow - either away from drag-inducing things (flipups drive air around the tyres, BMW's delta-wings guide air over the cockpit's side-impact protection, etc), or onto downforce-producing bits - winglets that direct air onto the rear wing, for example.

Removing those won't cost engineers much downforce at first glance. The real cost will be far less effective wings, because less air (and more turbulent at that!) will hit them. Which means less downforce and far, far more drag.

Because they make the cars look incredibly ugly. Also, aren't they causing the problem with 'dirty air'? F1s biggest problem.

The small bits are usually designed to "clean up" the air and guide it to where it is needed - the rear wing, usually. Problem is that those parts themselves don't work in dirty air, not the other way around. Most of the winglets are designed to reduce turbulence ("dirty air") from the car itself - but behind another car, in already-dirty air, they're rendered useless, and the wings produce less downforce.

It's the massive rear wings and the very effective (but small) diffusors which cause so much dirty air. Effectively, banning the winglets won't create much cleaner air to follow, but rather make the following car less dependent on clean air.

I was thinking the same. I'm currently watching the 1997 season and i noticed that cars appear to look to drive on rails, even though the engines were underpowered and aero wasn't really developed in those days.

Personally I think to make the F1 cars use this technology would mean making F1 cars look and use similar physics as an IndyCar car. So basically putting an IndyCar onto an F1 grid. When Ground Effect came into F1 it made it easy to drive. Lauda was able to driver over an oil slick without lifting.(All beit in the 'Fan Car')

Very easy to drive... Until you passed out. Or your car porpoised too much. Or you went a little to rough on that kerb, and you lose all ground-effects.

Lauda's case is differed from others, as the BT46's fan was engine-driven. Just up the revs a bit, and you have more downforce. Regular ground-effect cars wouldn't be able to drive like that.
 
Brilliant post... well done!
TMD ban, yeah, that one broke my heart. So much for technical innovation!
Gosh, will Spanish GP ever come? These long breaks always fray my nerves... BTW, anyone playing GT5 Prologue driving the Ferrari F2007? I find it appropriate to ask here to avoid the opinions of those who know Nothing of Formula One. Perhaps our own thread pertaining to this subject alone?
 
Williams very recently tried it with their Walrus.

I really wouldn’t call that the same concept at all… I mean sure, they’re both cleaning up the airflow underneath the car, but they are a hugely different idea to create the same effect. I also think one will be far more effective than the other proved to be. ;)

They've still got the bits and bobs on it because it's not their '09 configuration - only '09 levels of downforce. So essentially, they use last year's Monza-packaging (so as not to reveal their new ones for this year) because that's roughly the amount of downforce they'll have next season.

From what I understand some teams are also taking chunks of bodywork from underneath their cars to shear a lot of downforce off. So they’re using the Monza-esque from and rear wings while taking to the floor with crowbars! :lol:

Lauda's case is differed from others, as the BT46's fan was engine-driven. Just up the revs a bit, and you have more downforce. Regular ground-effect cars wouldn't be able to drive like that.

I remember the story that he wept when that car was banned. It must have been incredible to drive, I’d love to experience something with so much grip like that.
 
*SIGH* I caught a snippet of the hype surrounding her first win on CNN, then wondered when you'd get around to this. LOL, what took so long? BTW, in a Honda, no less. Don't expect that to happen anytime soon in Formula One.
 
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