SNAIL Div 6 - October 2015 Season

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Pubason as host seemed to work last week, when he hosted, we had the least problems with people not seeing each other.
 
I don't claim to be some kind of tech wizard but I have been troubleshooting GT connection issues since the days of GT5 Prologue. With the right information, I may be able to figure our where the problems are coming from. Without all the information, there won't be a fix. So, I have a couple of questions which may lead to more questions. The more information I can gather, the more likely it is that a cause can be found and then possibly a fix.

Who was not able to see each other at any time last night?

Is there anyone that is connecting their PS3 via wifi?

We can start there and add that to the test results you already submitted and start to get to the bottom of what is going on.
 
In other business. We will be needing another set of replays from your division. The set that was uploaded was six .zip files inside of another .zip file and google docs did not like that.

Once you have the replay files on a USB stick and the stick is connected to the computer, use the Ctrl key to select all six replay files then compress them together in one .zip file. This is less work for you and less work for the stewards on the back end and google docs shouldn't flip out.

You guys will get a pass on the deadline for prize eligibility but please try and get another set uploaded asap.
 
JLBowler
I don't claim to be some kind of tech wizard but I have been troubleshooting GT connection issues since the days of GT5 Prologue. With the right information, I may be able to figure our where the problems are coming from. Without all the information, there won't be a fix. So, I have a couple of questions which may lead to more questions. The more information I can gather, the more likely it is that a cause can be found and then possibly a fix.

Who was not able to see each other at any time last night?

Is there anyone that is connecting their PS3 via wifi?

We can start there and add that to the test results you already submitted and start to get to the bottom of what is going on.
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As far as I'm aware, jedi and queen couldn't see each other all night, and queen couldn't see busted, but busted saw her.

I am running of of WiFi, but I have phenomenal speeds, and have never had a problem. I have no way of getting hard-wired at the moment.
 
mrnascar242424
As far as I'm aware, jedi and queen couldn't see each other all night, and queen couldn't see busted, but busted saw her.

I am running of of WiFi, but I have phenomenal speeds, and have never had a problem. I have no way of getting hard-wired at the moment.
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Can anyone else confirm or add to the list of drivers that could not see each other?

It doesn't really matter what kind of speed you have. The PS3 wifi connection is terrible and known for causing all kinds of issues. In a mesh network, as GT6 uses for non fixed host rooms, any issues from one have an effect on everyone else. How those issues manifest themselves varies greatly but the weakest link has the ability to effect everyone and the PS3 wifi is usually the weakest link no matter what kind of speeds the ISP is providing.
 
@JLBowler , after @BustedFoSho came into the room(C3 R1-C3-R2),I was not able to see @WraithQueen At the start of C3 R2.Rather than prolong the event,I decided to leave the track.Any data you need can be gleaned from our resident Network Guy @Polygrizz,he performed a packet capture during the night (with the permission of all involved) to ascertain what may be the cause.
 
@JLBowler , I had no issues during the whole night to see everybody on track, weired stuff here around which prolonged our racing night by sooo much additional time, looking forward to @polygrizz 's diagnosis, it cannot be that drivers need to step out allowing the others to race, most happened between Queen and Jedi, later in C3 between Queen and Busted....and Raw quitted who had no issues during the whole racing night until Busted joined for the last combo, so :confused:
I'm hard wired too :D, mr Nascar is running WIFI, and I remember last season we had the same constellation with Killer as the same issues on track!
cheers JC :cheers:
 
Sorry for the late response I am just now looking at what is going on .Sorry I messed up the replays again will upload them again as soon as I get home from work .THANK YOU so much for helping us with our issues .We are losing people because they dont want to deal with the problems and it makes us run so late .I have called google about my connection it became fast and working great for a few days and then back to crap .Of course on sunday when i needed it ,have to call agian and jump threw thier hoops to get them to crank it up .But even in crap mode I dont think i am the problem .Like I said before I was not the ghost and everyone could see me . When poly was taking data he said he seen two that were forward porting .They were not on the same IP as the rest ,hopefully his data will show what is going on .


@JLBowler the replays should be in the D6public folder THANK YOU for the reprieve
 
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JLBowler
I don't claim to be some kind of tech wizard but I have been troubleshooting GT connection issues since the days of GT5 Prologue. With the right information, I may be able to figure our where the problems are coming from. Without all the information, there won't be a fix. So, I have a couple of questions which may lead to more questions. The more information I can gather, the more likely it is that a cause can be found and then possibly a fix.

Who was not able to see each other at any time last night?

Is there anyone that is connecting their PS3 via wifi?

We can start there and add that to the test results you already submitted and start to get to the bottom of what is going on.
Click to expand...
Hi all,
Spend a few hours analyzing the packet captured and found the following:

All racers that night were communicating using port UDP3658 between each other for voice and race data with the exception of @Raw10_2u and @STEAMER62 who were using dynamic ports (ports that randomly change from day to day in our case). This seems to be normal behaviour in general, and those that could not see each other were using the same ports anyways.

The issues we're seeing do not appear to be lag or protocol issue, but I'm thinking this may be a routing issue of some type. If the issue was lag, everyone would be affected in some way, not just specific racers.

This makes me look not towards a protocol issue, but more towards a potential routing issue.

I believe the next battery of tests will need to include a small batch file run by those affected, as I'd like to see if all users can see each other in a non game related way.

I will create a simple batch file that you guys can run next time there are issues which will simply do the following:

Racer 1 will run the file and it will create a route trace between them and all the other racers, and create a text file which will get uploaded to a server.

Same for any other players involved.

This will rule out a possible routing issue where the data from some reason cannot get from point A to point B. There's always the possibility that an internet provider is blocking traffic on port 3658 (Used for gaming normally on the PSN) from a range of addresses (ie 75.133.214.0/24) to another range (50.149.249.0 /24) to prevent denial of service attacks (possibly due to someone else who uses your ISP who may have attacked another player on a different ISP to mess with online gaming).

If it's the case, it may become possible to reach out to the ISP to get the port filtering lifted, or find a way to set-up port forwarding on the user's system to get the systems to start communicating.

Let's look at a possible story;

Let's say some gamer (We'll call him Jack) who likes to cheat by creating lag lived in Tennessee and is using Comcast as their internet. Jack decided he want to up his score in Call of Duty and finds out a particular opponent (we'll call him Bob) who keeps beating him needs more lag when playing online. Jack finds out Bob's IP address and uses his computer to start sending garbage information to Bob's Playstation, which bogs down the poor Bob's system and let's the Jack win his matches.

Bob is in Michigan using Charter for his internet. Bob gets so fed up he complains to his internet provider how online gaming is impossible because the network is too slow, which they investigate and see a flood attack. Charter find out there's a flooding attack coming from Jack's IP in Tennessee, and they block all the attack traffic coming from Jack to Charter's network. Jack can no longer play with Bob, and has issues playing online some times, so he reboots his modem. This changes his IP address to one very close to his own, but different. Jack can now play with Bob again online! Time to attack Bob again!

Bob was happy, he could play online again, then his system started to lag again, so he calls up his Internet Provider again and mentions the issue's back! No problem, says Charter, we'll block all the traffic that could be an attack on that port from that range to us. Problem solved. Bob can now play online again, and enjoy himself. :)

Now, Suzy wants to play online with her friends on GT6. She has issues, because all her IP address is a neighbour to Jack's... Suzy can play Angry birds with Scott (her friend) without any issues, but not GT^. Some games work, others just don't. Why? Who knows... It's probably just Comcast being lousy... Internet works find though, just some games with some people don't.

Sounds far fetch? Maybe, but a friend of mine had internet issues a while back because of someone attacking someone else with his provider online, so it's possible.

I will now take questions:
 
I understand all that. It's really just a more technical and better explained way to say that when drivers can't see each other, it's an issue between those two users.

Switching to fixed host would, most likely, remedy these issues. Based on test results, there is one person in the division that may meet the minimum requirement to run a fixed host room. That would be @polygrizz . If you are willing to give it a shot, I'll need to see a couple more speedtest results. One to somewhere in Florida and one to Southern California.

There are a couple of other tests that were borderline and might be able to be used as an alternative to try a switch to fixed host.

I will also warn you guys that when switching to fixed host, the marginal connections that used to drag the whole room down will generally only have an effect on the user with the marginal connection.
 
polygrizz
I'm willing to give it a try. It may help resolve the problem.
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Ok. Show me two speedtest.net results. One to Southern California and one to Florida just to make sure the ping times are not crazy slow or something. As long as they are good, I'll add you to the list of approved fixed hosts.
 
Hoiii fellow D6lers, it would be great we figure this out before the Sunday Racing Night...hmmm what's your proposals/availability for the next 2 days? Guess it is wise to test this out before and not during the race night ;)
Proposals pls :cheers: JC
 
I can probably host some tests Friday or Saturday evening/night.

Here's some speed tests:

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Thank you. That will work just fine. I have added you as an approved member to run a fixed host room.

There are some differences to running a non-fixed host room. They are listed here in section 6.2 and I'll paste them in here as well:

Special instructions for “fixed host” rooms.

Rooms should only be operated as “fixed host” if you have been given permission from SNAIL administration to operate the room as “fixed host”.

If the room is being run as “fixed host” and the hosts gets disconnected, they entire room will close. If this occurs during a race, you will have to restart the race. If this occurs during the race countdown or before the race results can be entered, you will have to rerun the race. In order for results to be official, there will need to be a replay saved or at least two photos of the finish screen with all drivers finished or the time expired and the results entered. As long as one of these two requirements are met, results can be entered from that information immediately after the night’s racing is completed.
 
I will be there too .We have the combos we can always run a lap or two .Will be fun see you all soon .Thank you poly for spending the extra time that it takes to sort this all out .
 
STEAMER62
Hoiii fellow D6lers, it would be great we figure this out before the Sunday Racing Night...hmmm what's your proposals/availability for the next 2 days? Guess it is wise to test this out before and not during the race night ;)
Proposals pls :cheers: JC
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I will not be availible until Sunday night. Sorry guys :/
 
Great news we were able to test the room with as many as 14 people in fixed host mode, and it went great. We had reports of 1 lag spike affecting 1 person outside a race with 12 people, but the races were extremely smooth. Same person ended up getting DCed at the start of the race, so it's possible they has a minor network issue on their end. They were fine after reconnecting.

We should be good to go for this Sunday!
 
JLBowler
Based on test results, there is one person in the division that may meet the minimum requirement to run a fixed host room. That would be @polygrizz .
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My connections not too shabby?

I'm in California here are my speedtest results.
Florida server)
California server)

If you wan't me to try hosting lemme know. 👍
 
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That was a wonderful season. Thanks to everyone for the great times and the fun racing! Too bad we couldn't get rid of the Brands Hatch filth :lol:
 
I enjoyed the Season as well mrnascar2424! D6 is full of great drivers,who are great people as well.I made some mistakes this season that I am not proud of. I got pushy,and I apologize to all whom I affected.
 
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