SNAIL Division 1 - December 2016 Season

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Ricky_Blayz

Ricky_Blayz

239
United States
Queens, NY
RayzaBlayz
Another day, another season, here we go D1. Check it

Drivers List

@Rednose58
@src_ej6
@MikeGrove
@Vegasracer
@msgt-sd
@luke norris
@Xradkins
@Gonzo23
@Nicktune
@MSgtGunny
@Ness
@OscarMorales
@Ph1sher
@Ricky_Blayz
@lllTrick
@Alfa_Avanti44
@Vitessekid

Duties

Division Manager - @Ricky_Blayz

Host - @lllTrick

Backup Host - @Rednose58

Scorekeeper - @Rednose58

Backup Scorekeeper - @Ricky_Blayz and/or @msgt-sd

Replay Uploader - @MSgtGunny

Backup Replay Uploader - @OscarMorales

Data Specialist - @msgt-sd

Backup Data Specialist - [USER=243466]@Rednose58

Again, if anyone wants to volunteer to for a duty let me know. I'll gladly switch people around.[/USER]
 
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I want to bring something up here with the D1 racers. I've thought about it and feel it needs a forum. it is in regards to last nights racing and the use of the clutch on certain cars to make them go off the line faster at the start of the race.

Personally I think if everyone is aware of this advantage and understands how to use it. Then the option to use it or not use it should be left up to the driver. However I was not aware that the R8 had this ability. It seems like the majority also didn't know about this little trick. As it was not used by anyone except one or two racers on the night.

So my question is to everyone who had to deal with this unfair advantage that was given to those that utilized this ability which was essentially unknown to the rest of the field. could this be considered a form of cheating? i know its a harsh word cheating. Which is why I don't want to point the finger at anyone as I would like to believe that, that was not how they were looking at it initially.

However, IMO, not saying anything about it in practices and not being transparent about the ability to increase the performance of the car off the line in the race lobby before the race makes those that felt cheated wonder why this wasn't brought forward in the interest of fair play.

Had this advantage not been used. The race outcome for the night in several races would have been different. I guess in short what I'm saying is. This advantage lead to outcomes that should not have occurred. That being said I am not interested in changing the results of last night outcome nor am I filing any official complaint about this. I simply want to hear everyone's take on this matter and how they see it. so that we may come to an agreement in the future and avoid any further unfair play strategies.



note: I looked up the definition of the word cheat last night on google. This is what it said....

cheat
CHēt/
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
  1. 1.
    act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
    "she always cheats at cards"
 
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lllTrick
I want to bring something up here with the D1 racers. I've thought about it and feel it needs a forum. it is in regards to last nights racing and the use of the clutch on certain cars to make them go off the line faster at the start of the race.

Personally I think if everyone is aware of this advantage and understands how to use it. Then the option to use it or not use it should be left up to the driver. However I was not aware that the R8 had this ability as I'm sure many others were also not aware. As it was not used by anyone except one or two racers on the night.

So my question is to everyone who had to deal with this unfair advantage that was given to those that utilized this ability essentially unknown to the rest of the field. could this be considered a form of cheating? i know its a harsh word cheating. Which is why I don't want to point the finger at anyone as I would like to believe that was not what they had in mind.

However, not saying anything about it in practices and not being transparent about the ability to increase the performance of the car off the line in the race lobby before the race makes those that felt cheated wonder why this wasn't brought forward in the interest of fair play.

Had this advantage not been used. The race outcome for the night in several races would have been different. I guess in short what I'm saying is. This advantage lead to outcomes that should not have occurred. That being said I am not interested in changing the results of last night outcome nor am I filing any official complaint about this. I simply want to hear everyone's take on this matter and how they see it. so that we may come to an agreement in the future and avoid any further unfair play strategies.



note: I looked up the definition of the word cheat last night on google. This is what it said....

cheat
CHēt/
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
  1. 1.
    act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
    "she always cheats at cards"
Click to expand...
My take on this topic is that if everyone is aware of it, then its a fair move. However just like how SNAIL doesn't allow BB Adjustments, theres no way of regulating it in game. Though you can tell who may use the clutch to get a better start. The clutch technique adds a whole new style to the starts but I personally think it just makes turn 1 100 times more dangerous, especially in reverse grids.

I personally don't want drivers who I compete with and myself having to do this every race. As much as sometimes having a good start is important, I know that because in my dirt track racing that I do on ovals, we 90% line up double file and its VERY important to have a great start. A good start in dirt oval racing puts you in a better position to pass through corner 1 and 2. The technique is a bit cool as well. As most of us don't use the clutch pedal so its interesting factor into it. so I understand the side of understanding why if it were to be allowed.If this is allowed, I as well as others will have to adapt to it as most of us will have to do in order to keep our position that we qualified just going into corner 1. However in GT, Off the starts as Ive seen a driver or so go from the back to the front in the matter of seconds and just makes turn 1 a disaster sometimes, sometimes it works, other times no. I personally think theres more places to pass. Its not a turn 1 race. Its a 15 Minute race.


I think this topic will have to be handed to the main stewards and they will have to look over this. We drivers, can only just race our stock cars week in, week out and have a great time. That's what we are here for. To have fun. Not to take advantage of track, Cheating (If you hybrid a car, or only know a technique that many others don't know) Its hard to really say if this topic is cheating or not at the moment as trick said that cheating is a harsh word and I totally agree.


That's just my 2 cents. Id tried to keep it completely open and I see both side of allowing it vs not allowing. Its only up to the stewards on what they think. We all have different opinions and I respect both sides to this topic

Thank you Trick for bringing this up. I think this is a very good topic to discuss to keep SNAIL Racing a Clean, Fair, Spec League at all times.
 
Ph1sher
My take on this topic is that if everyone is aware of it, then its a fair move. However just like how SNAIL doesn't allow BB Adjustments, theres no way of regulating it in game. Though you can tell who may use the clutch to get a better start. The clutch technique adds a whole new style to the starts but I personally think it just makes turn 1 100 times more dangerous, especially in reverse grids.

I personally don't want drivers who I compete with and myself having to do this every race. As much as sometimes having a good start is important, I know that because in my dirt track racing that I do on ovals, we 90% line up double file and its VERY important to have a great start. A good start in dirt oval racing puts you in a better position to pass through corner 1 and 2. The technique is a bit cool as well. As most of us don't use the clutch pedal so its interesting factor into it. so I understand the side of understanding why if it were to be allowed.If this is allowed, I as well as others will have to adapt to it as most of us will have to do in order to keep our position that we qualified just going into corner 1. However in GT, Off the starts as Ive seen a driver or so go from the back to the front in the matter of seconds and just makes turn 1 a disaster sometimes, sometimes it works, other times no. I personally think theres more places to pass. Its not a turn 1 race. Its a 15 Minute race.


I think this topic will have to be handed to the main stewards and they will have to look over this. We drivers, can only just race our stock cars week in, week out and have a great time. That's what we are here for. To have fun. Not to take advantage of track, Cheating (If you hybrid a car, or only know a technique that many others don't know) Its hard to really say if this topic is cheating or not at the moment as trick said that cheating is a harsh word and I totally agree.


That's just my 2 cents. Id tried to keep it completely open and I see both side of allowing it vs not allowing. Its only up to the stewards on what they think. We all have different opinions and I respect both sides to this topic

Thank you Trick for bringing this up. I think this is a very good topic to discuss to keep SNAIL Racing a Clean, Fair, Spec League at all times.
Click to expand...


I think it is an interesting question. I'm going to ask others what they think and also post to the stewards to get their reaction. I mean we race in a spec league one of the main reasons for that I believe is to have your skill (and a bit of luck) decide the outcome of the races. If we are going to introduce new racing aspects to sunday night. Then we should all be allowed to implement the same tactics. Or we should keep it spec and shut down the use of extra ways to "enhance" our cars.
Being able to make your car go faster off the line would be the same as adjusting your tranny to allow for better starts. Which we all know is not allowed. It'll be interesting to see what the stewards think. If we are allowed to implement this in racing on sundays. At least now everyone knows about it.

The other point to consider is that some setups don't have a clutch. And so some can't perform this technique at all! i would see that as simply unfair for those racers.
 
I'll throw in the counter argument for discussion....

Starts are important and turn one could make a difference between winning or not. With some powerful cars you pull away in 2nd or even 3rd, or you feed the power in slowly to prevent wheel spin. Not everybody knows this or can do this equally well. (You never see smoke when @Nicktune pulls away:idea:).

With almost any car on Daytona you have to do something different to pull away or you will spin out. Some use a different gear, others feed power in slowly, others use the clutch....

To make it almost equal you have to go to automatic transmission because then all the cars will shift at the same point too. No short shifting to make use of the torque curve or early down shifting to slow down faster..... or to enhance cornering. (Not everybody knows this or can do this equally well)

As long as the cars are the exact same performance specs (no brake bias or chassis reinforcement) I say racers can use their skills to get the best out of the car with the allowable settings and equipment they have. If your equipment gives you a slight advantage over somebody else's - good for you - it is not cheating (e.g drivers with controllers were at a real disadvantage on High Speed Ring with that Prototype Toyota. They just had to suck it up that night).
 
Rednose58
I'll throw in the counter argument for discussion....

Starts are important and turn one could make a difference between winning or not. With some powerful cars you pull away in 2nd or even 3rd, or you feed the power in slowly to prevent wheel spin. Not everybody knows this or can do this equally well. (You never see smoke when @Nicktune pulls away:idea:).

With almost any car on Daytona you have to do something different to pull away or you will spin out. Some use a different gear, others feed power in slowly, others use the clutch....

To make it almost equal you have to go to automatic transmission because then all the cars will shift at the same point too. No short shifting to make use of the torque curve or early down shifting to slow down faster..... or to enhance cornering. (Not everybody knows this or can do this equally well)

As long as the cars are the exact same performance specs (no brake bias or chassis reinforcement) I say racers can use their skills to get the best out of the car with the allowable settings and equipment they have. If your equipment gives you a slight advantage over somebody else's - good for you - it is not cheating (e.g drivers with controllers were at a real disadvantage on High Speed Ring with that Prototype Toyota. They just had to suck it up that night).
Click to expand...

That's a good point. If that is how it is to be considered then it is what it is. And we are left to our own devices provided the car specs aren't altered.

I was concerned about the fact that some simply can't do it at all. And so they are left holding the bag sort to speak. If this is how it is. I will make sure I'm aware of which cars can be manipulated with the clutch.

Note:
Although nictune doesn't let any wheel spin off at the start of the race. It still doesn't give him an advantage off the line.
It's only when the clutch is implemented that you see large gains off the starting grid. Also your mention of various other technics used to get a good start i.e.: 2nd gear with faster cars. Generally speaking everyone shares in those details in the sprit of fair play.
Only in this situation for this Sunday. It appeared it was very hush hush until it could be used as way to gain advantage over the field. In the end however if it is to be "in he game" then I guess it is up to us to make sure we are aware of cars that provide alternative means to go faster. (Provided it is within the guidelines listed in the OLR)
 
Well, the SNAIL OLR does not restrict the use of the clutch. So, anyone using it hasn't broken any rules.

However, if I were King of SNAIL :cool:, I wouldn't allow it. I don't have any data to back it up, but it is my suspicion that it does give an advantage on some cars.

I notice this issue has been brought up in the GTP WRS several times and they've decided to not allow it. See this response by @EDK:
upload_2016-11-29_22-38-11.png


Those making the argument that people should be able to take advantage of what their better equipment offers make a good point with the controller vs wheel analogy. However, one counter-argument would be, is that if you accept that a wheel already gives an advantage over a controller, why would you want to possibly increase that advantage by allowing wheel users to use the clutch? And some don't necessarily agree that the wheel is faster than the controller anyway. See what ya' boy @Dragonwhisky :sly: says here:
upload_2016-11-29_23-1-6.png


I'm not strongly attached to my position, but I thought I'd provide some more to think about anyway. :D
 
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IMO, go as fast as you can anytime, anywhere with in our rules. That's racing, on and off the track.

Have fun in our league with whatever equipment you have. No prerequisites !

And in the spirit of transparency , I use a G29 without the clutch or stick ($200 from Amazon via an employee).
 
I'm just checking some rules and regulations and it looks like @lllTrick will have to pick another number for the time that I'll be racing in D1. Not sure how long I will last here, but I don't think we should have two cars with the same number.

upload_2016-12-6_10-43-27.png
upload_2016-12-6_10-44-22.png
 
The numbers in D1 aren't relavent. They don't matter which is why they aren't mandatory. Same goes with colors. Why is this a problem now all of a sudden?
 
You know what rednose. It's not a big deal. You can have 14 in D1 and in GT1.

In the spirit of good will and sportsmanship. It's all good form where I'm standing.
 
Looks like you guys got it worked out but here's the official SNAIL stance on it:

While choosing a color and number combo is not required, SNAIL asks that all of our racers to do so. This is done for a number of reasons which include ease of driver identification and adding uniqueness to a spec race series. Here are a couple of rules, tips and instructions on submitting your choice.

The rules:
  1. The driver with a greater number of races participated in has seniority over a racer with less, giving them rights to a particular color/number.
    Tip: Have another color in mind just in case.
  2. Any color and any combo is allowed, so long as it does not match or present a hard distinction from another driver in your division.
    Tip: Look at the divisions above and below, if you or another who is looking to be promoted and they hold seniority, be prepared to switch colors.
  3. Please try not to duplicate numbers with another racer across the series.
  4. Please, enter a paint chip and not a general color. (IE, WC Mica Blue, as opposed to Blue) This will insure that we get the maximum amount of use of hues in any given color.
 
I can set up to host again tonight, but we need a back-up if I get the same problem like I had last week.

@msgt-sd , do you need help with last week's data. I am a bit cautious watching replays lately because my system keeps on freezing up when I watch replays. Sometimes on the first attempt, sometimes I can watch a few, but lately, it is almost guaranteed that I can't watch the full set without a freeze-up.

Also, tonight will be my last race night for the year. I'll be gone to warmer weather for the next three Sundays and rejoin the SNAIL circus on January 8.

@Ricky_Blayz
 
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