So frustrating

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Hasassin_X, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. Hasassin_X

    Hasassin_X

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    101
    So I was in a lobby racing Nürburgring. I started in second place and moved to first when the driver in front of me went off track. I was leading the pack by at least 4 seconds. Then out of no where the green Porsche shows up. Watch how he’s driving. This is why I think we need an option to race with wheel users or pad users! There is no way you are driving like this with a wheel on this track and not losing control of the car, and especially on Nürburgring grass equals death.

    What do you guys think ? This really has me questioning the physics in this game at the moment!

     
    AdamA998 likes this.
  2. CosmicSlop

    CosmicSlop

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    Pad or not...this guy was fast. Twitchy yes. But fast. It was hard to watch, I almost got motion sick. :)

    Also you did a few multiple moves, multiple times to block him. I think he controlled his car pretty well by not punting off or diving under you on a curve. Each time he tapped you he backed off to give you time to recover.
     
  3. Hasassin_X

    Hasassin_X

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    101

    Yea I got hit a few times by him, but nothing major. Yea he is fast but if you have a wheel and move like that it’s sudden death
     
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  4. zzz_pt

    zzz_pt Premium

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    While on replays, the only smooth driving you'll see if your own. I think the replay only saves a limited set of input data for all the other cars, making them look twitchy when they're not. If you watch the same replay but saved by that particular player (on the green Porsche) you'll see it as it is, smoother. On the other hand, your car on his replay won't look as smooth, but probably a bit twitchy too.

    This is what I've noticed watching my own car on other people's replays and comparing it to my own replay.

    I'm sure I wasn't the only one noticing it.

    Having said that, a pad user will probably intensify this effect.
     
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  5. Hasassin_X

    Hasassin_X

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    101

    He sure looked very twitchy behind me and when he passed me on the final straight, then took those final turns his car was all over the place yet he was able to catch it! I guess what I’m saying is the pad user has the advantage. Being that they can react faster to a turn and brake harder making them faster then the average wheel user. Although I can see your point regarding the replays, but his car was definitely jerking all over the place with almost no penalty.
     
    AdamA998 likes this.
  6. AdamA998

    AdamA998

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    150
    There's definitely something wrong here, I'm noticing this on online lobbies too. At first I thought these drivers were just really good at trail braking but they don't appear to be following any line and just brake late and somehow make a recovery without crashing and catching up to others. They take corners at quicker speeds too. That guy in your video should have spun out multiple times especially in that car. The controller input must apply more counter steer or something to somehow offset his traction loss. People here won't want to admit it and instead suggest you are just a slow driver or something.
     
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  7. Chin

    Chin

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    13
    Watching from Chase cam always makes corrections look a lot harsher. Because you're seeing the camera watching the car, as apposed to the camera on the car......

    Watch it from cockpit or bumper cam, it will look smoother, or at least not half as bad.

    Also what zzz pt says.. other players sometimes look jerky in replays, their info "bit-rate" is a lot less than yours (you being the actual player in the replay)
     
    phil_75 likes this.
  8. VFOURMAX1

    VFOURMAX1

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    I think I remember reading something on another thread a few weeks back talking about the counter steering aids and how that it was possible with the use of the aid to run a faster lap time but for it to work in a faster time you had to use a driving style that was really not reasonably correct. Basically by altering your driving style you could game the system and the counter steering aid to be faster.

    Using the CS aid while maintaining a normal type of driving style would not result in the faster times.

    I am one of those that do not see a problem using traction control and abs as both of those aids are common place on about all racing vehicles and quite a few street vehicles even.

    Just like in the real world the higher you crank the traction control the more you are actually reducing your power output when it is kicking in to reduce wheel spin and it does seem to reduce lap times when turned up to high.

    Stability control and counter steering control in my opinion have no business being allowed in on line races above a very beginning class and level where you would find totally inexperienced driver and racers.
     
  9. Hasassin_X

    Hasassin_X

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    101

    Funny you mention this, because I just tried using counter steering aid on high and yea I don’t lose control hitting the grass! And I’m taking turns faster using the wheel how is this possible ? It should slow you down instead it’s making people faster especially playing with the game pad that’s not right at all .
     
  10. Chin

    Chin

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    13
    Using the joypad will also "auto-centre" the front wheels when pad or analog stick are released... that is another perk of using it to correct.
     
  11. ArchangelX

    ArchangelX

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    Location:
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    I have tried racing with the aids on and honestly...just with traction control on...I notice I can drive A LOT more aggressively and take risks I don't normally take. Which a byproduct is that as a mid-level driver, I'm actually faster with TC on than off. I do drive with it off in almost every car, though. I just tried it for giggles, and it was pretty apparent you can ride curbs and grass even more easily. Combine that with the natural aids you get when driving with a DS4, and people are probably learning to drive faster with them.
     
  12. RotorHed

    RotorHed

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    153
    Depends on the lobby settings - he probably had the aids on and seemed to just be faster anyway perhaps due to slipstream.

    Either way he won fair and square I’d say - in the sense that he used the features of the game available to him and was faster.
     
  13. Hasassin_X

    Hasassin_X

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    101

    Not trying to say he cheated by any means, but if you look this guy came from near the bottom of the pack to catch me and I was running pretty fast. The reason he caught me so fast is due to him not having to worry as much as others when losing control or going off track. In that regard it’s pretty ridiculous that one can drive as he was with no distinct line, miss all braking points, and still win with no penalties.

    I just did the championship race for manufacturers and again I’m in 8th at suzuka. A Porsche comes outta no where catches me because on the final chicane it’s like he’s not even slowing down! I’m driving the Ferrari mind you. He then hits the grass still never spins out but my back tire hits the grass and around I go and finished in bottom half of pack?
     
  14. RotorHed

    RotorHed

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    153
    Well I didn’t see him going off track an unusual amount - he passed a few guys because they made mistakes and he was just not braking at times when others were.

    I think he just knows the track better than the people in that lobby.

    If you can go as fast using the aids, then use them - if you can’t, then look for why.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
    azrael1965 and Chin like this.
  15. Hasassin_X

    Hasassin_X

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    101

    So at the end of the race after the final straight. He doesn’t hit the brake until almost the sharp right. Loses the back end twice and some how magically catches the car with out losing that much speed? All this while racing Nürburgring. Either he has amazing luck and skill or something else is at play here .
     
    Johnnypenso likes this.
  16. KungFury

    KungFury

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    The green driver is well practiced is all I see. I don't think there is an advantage to using a controller, it's more likely the data saved for the replay is a skeleton of all that was done.
     
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  17. Hasassin_X

    Hasassin_X

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    101

    Um ok I guess I’m just not skilled enough then! Oh well
     
    Chin likes this.
  18. VFOURMAX1

    VFOURMAX1

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    As long as the game allows its use it is not illegal or cheating, I do not think anyone is implying such. I think that it is just being questioned is it an aid that should be allowed above say a beginner level as it does give an "unnatural" advantage when in use.

    If you are advertising yourself as a "real driving simulator", applying BoP type of rules to level the competition within a class then should the game allow a virtual world driving aid that would not be something that would be found in a real world racing environment?

    Personally I play the game to enjoy the driving and racing experience and although I realize it is nothing but a game I do try to drive and race with the virtual world settings as realistic and as close to real world as possible.

    I would rather finish 8th without unrealistic driver aids or a suspension tune tune where the camber is cranked so far that in the real world the tires would not last 4 laps much less 10 than win when I know that the win was assisted with exploiting unrealistic assistance even though it would be legal within the game.

    Some people value the finishing position more than the experience and neither person is wrong if the game allows the settings.
     
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  19. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    i hope counter steering doesn't give an advantage. i barely have it on just to smooth out my joystick inputs. without it the twitchy movement of the DS4 jiggles the weight displacement erratically around making cornering unpredictable. The traction control, i just set it high enough where the car won't spin out at half throttle in 2nd gear.
     
  20. KungFury

    KungFury

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    48
    Location:
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    I'm not judging your driving skills in any way, I was watching the green car for anything out of the ordinary. The game physics are what they are for all players and dropping two in the grass has always been a part of playing gt.
     
  21. ArchangelX

    ArchangelX

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    Location:
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    It may not be cheating...but that doesn't mean it's balanced however.
     
  22. Lion-Face

    Lion-Face Premium

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    You can see what aids a driver is using if you use the settings cog during the replay, select display all info, and then press O button to get rid of the replay controls. It highlights all aids in use.

    As for the jerkiness, that is a net connection issue. He wouldn't have lost it in those last few corners, but if he has a high ping, then the game is 'filling in the blanks' while it waits for the player to update his position. This will result in the sudden slides, then regrouping appearing on screen. Makes it difficult to have close racing with, but such is online racing.
     
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  23. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

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    44
    I use a pad exclusively, with TCS enabled with different strength depending on Car and tire wear. Maybe if the accelerator wasn't applied to the max at 50% it would be easier to race without TCS :)

    When i see videos of Wheel users (the GTR dude) i see clear advantages for wheel users, first of all, with a pad you turn at a given rate, no quick corrections, at least not that are easily controllable, so you more or less commit to a corner when you turn into it. You can surely make corrections but again the correction speed is limited.

    Maybe you can turn up the sensitivity to max, and turn all aids on and then get a much quicker and twitchy response that the game fixes for you.
    But i was also surprised to see that some of the fast drivers actually use aids i figured the fastest way around the track was without aids.. maybe GT will slow them down at some point :)
     
  24. RotorHed

    RotorHed

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    153
    I saw that. Yes could be skill, or luck or assists or it could just be the fidelity of the replay.

    Since you think his speed is unreasonable, have you tried to recreate it? Using aids and DS4 if you want. At the moment you’re making an assumption that he got some advantage from that. Given how far ahead of you he was by the end, you should immediately go faster by using a DS4 and assists.

    Ive fiddled with CSA and some others (with a wheel) but didn’t achieve any significant time differences with the assists on.

    So far, in my time in online races I haven’t seen anyone who I felt was being advantaged through anything be it using a DS4 or CSA or whatever.
     
  25. andyparks

    andyparks

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    167
    This proves that controllers work better then steering wheels on a driving game that's why there's no settings for steering wheels
     
  26. GordonS

    GordonS

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    Location:
    Finland
    He took better lines than you! There was also lag involved in his racing footage so it is hard to say how twitchy his racing really was. Is it confirmed he was using pad?
     
  27. JulesDennis

    JulesDennis

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    739
    To OP:
    Mate you cannot question the "physics" of GTS looking a replay of a guy that was using a pad against you (you are a wheel user yes)?
    Physics work the same for pad users and wheel users.TBH the GTS physics model covers basic rules and its not in any way as detailed as in other PS4 titles (AC or Pcars).You cannot race in real Green Hell the way you "can" in GTS btw.Example:curbs are too forgiving.In AC you cannot even toutch those (like in real life) in GTS you can ride them with full speed.
    But either way its the same model for everyone.
    With that said yes Pad users do have some advantages.During the "closed BETA" there was a lot of talk here about the "hidden hand of god" that seemed to help pad users have better control of their car and go as fast (if not faster) compared to wheel users.
    There are threats here that talk about that a lot.Its not in the settings,its not written anywhere in the game notes but a lot of people that used both wheels and pads (testing the beta) were possitive that there is a "hidden" help for pad users in order to be as competitive as wheel users are.
    Last note:the movement that this guy has in the replay is expected.Almost every pad user moves that way in any racing title.
     
  28. andyparks

    andyparks

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    Whats the point of the FIA championships when controllers have an advantage over steering wheels
     
  29. JulesDennis

    JulesDennis

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    Its not an advantage exactly.Its a way to "even" the field.Now if this is actually happening that way its another story.
    Does "BoP" work?If not whats the point of FIA Manufactures Cup?-I follow your logic-.
     
  30. zzz_pt

    zzz_pt Premium

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    They don't though. Maybe for the average player (main target of PD) the PAD is more accessible to use than a wheel. But when we talk about the fastest guys out there and the FIA championships, there's no way a PAD can match a wheel user imo. Just pick a stock 911 GT3 and try to do a 2:02:xxx lap around Lake Maggiore with a PAD. :)

    The throttle and brake control is more important at the limit than the steering input imo, so the wheel has the advantage. Otherwise, no one would be using wheels to be fast. Maybe to have fun offline and with friends but for sure not when competing on FIA cups.
     
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