So GT7 is now really on its way, when and what can we expect?

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Scaff

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More precisely: December 6th 2013 :dunce:
Well that changes everything!

Oh wait, no its doesn't.

I repeat:

"That's exactly the point being made. PD were very, very good at updating that information every six months or so in the past, not to mention supporting it with press releases giving sales figures and how impressive they were (and they were).

That all stopped with GT6, as such its a reasonable inference that this change of approach indicates that sales of GT6 are not as impressive as previous titles."
 
2,691
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Well that changes everything!

Oh wait, no its doesn't.

I repeat:

"That's exactly the point being made. PD were very, very good at updating that information every six months or so in the past, not to mention supporting it with press releases giving sales figures and how impressive they were (and they were).

That all stopped with GT6, as such its a reasonable inference that this change of approach indicates that sales of GT6 are not as impressive as previous titles."

You think what you want :)
 

Scaff

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You think what you want :)
That I already now.

I'm more interested in why you think PD have stopped communicating (via any method) sales figures if they are "still a very beautiful figure"?

I'm sorry, I don't work with Sony or Polyphony Digital.

And you, either.
Then I suggest you stop posting as if you know the figures are fine "it's still a very beautiful figure".

I'm speculating on the most likely reason why they have stopped communicating, you are stating as fact.
 

Korza

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Well that changes everything!

Oh wait, no its doesn't.

I repeat:

"That's exactly the point being made. PD were very, very good at updating that information every six months or so in the past, not to mention supporting it with press releases giving sales figures and how impressive they were (and they were).

That all stopped with GT6, as such its a reasonable inference that this change of approach indicates that sales of GT6 are not as impressive as previous titles."

The website itself hasn't been updated since 2013 so I don't think its as sinister as people are making out. The site doesn't get a lot of traffic and PD put their emphasis on the GT website.
 
10,993
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Tired_Tyres
I'm sorry, I don't work with Sony or Polyphony Digital.

Neither do you, either.

Corrected. I can confirm - I do not work for Sony. That does not mean I can't put 2 and 2 together to find 4.

I say sales have been terrible - I have provided proof of this in the link I posted. You haven't posted anything to support any other standpoint but you still keep arguing the point....
 
2,691
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Corrected. I can confirm - I do not work for Sony. That does not mean I can't put 2 and 2 together to find 4.

I say sales have been terrible - I have provided proof of this in the link I posted. You haven't posted anything to support any other standpoint but you still keep arguing the point....

Proof ? VGChartz ? :lol:
 

mister dog

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The website itself hasn't been updated since 2013 so I don't think its as sinister as people are making out. The site doesn't get a lot of traffic and PD put their emphasis on the GT website.
Yeah but they used to publicize their sales numbers everywhere (press releases). Now they don't which in itself probably shows GT6 didn't even reach half of GT5's sales numbers, hence silence is golden.

Example:

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/...ranchise-total-now-close-to-68-million-total/
 
10,993
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Tired_Tyres
Ah, it's a proof for you?

Okay :)

Proof = Evidence to support an argument. Again - I've provided some to support my stance - you haven't.

Edit. @Zlork I should have used the word evidence rather than the word proof. My mistake.
 
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Scaff

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The website itself hasn't been updated since 2013 so I don't think its as sinister as people are making out. The site doesn't get a lot of traffic and PD put their emphasis on the GT website.
Yet prior to that t was updated very regularly and both PD and Sony have historically made a major deal of sales figures.

I'm not aware of a single press release from either in regard to GT6 sales, which is a first for any GT title.
 
387
mokalovesoulmate
Hello guys, sorry for jumping in. I am writing this rant with mind I just reading Forza 6 gameplay gif on neogaf with an envy feeling (I played FM4 and FM5 too. Horizons not count as sim). Sorry for bad English.

So GT7 is now really on its way...

I hope it is not too long. As a long time GT fan, this is first time I had enough with GT (GT5 and GT6).

...when...

I hope it is by middle of 2016 or at least by end of 2016. I cannot wait too long for it anymore. I am disappointed GT7 does not make appearance on yesterday's E3.

...and what can we expect?

Looks like I am going to talking about "what I wanted" along with what we can expect.

From what I've seen, GT always come with an elegant theme. I wanted GT more "badass" and "dirty" in terms of game design, visuals and audio. Lets get a move on. It is a "real driving simulator", not a luxurious (do you even think it is luxurious?)driving game.

===

For cars, I am fine with Standard Cars. But they should become premium. Or at least, semi premium (high detail body without interior as we know it on some cars on GT6). No more GT4 rip. No more duplicates. I want a range of different cars.

By reading news that partnership between EA and Porsche contract ended by 2016, PD should start moving.

Don't forget the all VGT cars must coming too in GT7. GT6-only VGT cars contract with manufacturer? I don't care. VGT cars must coming in GT7.

===

For tracks, I want GT5 course creator coming back in GT7 (or GT6 if they can make it) with more location theme. From GT5 we get Mount Aso, circuit, karting and else (sorry I am too lazy for remember). In GT5 they looked so plain. I want a better course creator.

For real tracks, I am okay with current tracks in GT6. Maybe they need more asset touch up like improved texture. And real tires on the side of the track. Not a plain box embedded with tire texture

===

For Audio. Yeah I heard they hiring Forza's lead audio designer. This is good. But still, it needs a lot of fixes. I want sound when car's chassis touching the ground.

===

For everything I cannot remember now, GT7 should be better in many ways than GT6 right now.

===

I seeing the Forza 6 and I wonder why Turn 10 works are fast and the results are amazing. Even now Forza 6 has ~450 premium cars (which based on what I read) with no duplicates.

Any reasons about why GT can't be good, take a look at Forza 6. Budget? PS3 limitations? Coding to the metal with PS4 somewhat difficult? PD only have a few of staff? Physics R&D? I don't care for any reason anymore.

I wonder what are Kaz and whole PD team thinking right now. Kaz and team on PD should wake up, look at Forza 6 and other sims and get their grip right now.

PD better impress me when first GT7 preview coming out. Or no buy at all and then I am permanently moving to Driveclub, Assetto Corsa and Forza 6. This is not a threat to PD or someone else anyway, but for a better GT for everyone. I feel sad when GT is no longer GT as I know it..

===

If this rant violates forum rules, please delete.

Thanks
 
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ron1986
I seeing the Forza 6 and I wonder why Turn 10 works are fast and the results are amazing. Even now Forza 6 has ~450 premium cars (which based on what I read) with no duplicates.

Because those vietnamese guys --> http://www.glassegg.com/portfolio.php <-- make the cars and tracks for them!

And PD has another mentality in that aspect - they want to make the cars and tracks by themself, its a matter of honor and such things.
 
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Johnnypenso

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PS2 and PS3 GT games suggests so. Seriously though.

Then here we are with the PS4 and PS greater than great. We're entering uncharted territories. Oh yeah...

But think about it. PD couldn't even implement heat haze in using the PS3 when they were able to with the PS2. Yea, no time change in PS2 GT games, but PD were working on it for a console that could feature truly life-like visuals.

Clarify: it wasn't possible to implement heat haze in GT on the PS3. If anyone thinks they could have (theoretically speaking), what effect would that have had on the oh so terrible frame-rate problems? The texture issues? Aliasing? Overall visual quality of the games would have suffered.

You say Kaz lost his way, then fair enough (in your opinion). IMO, he did what he could do with what he was given. GT1 from '92 to '97 could not have been replicated with GT5 on the PS3. Limits. The PS4 on the other hand... what has been seen these past 19 months? What have developers shown and proven what the PS4 is capable of?
I think everyone that knows even a little about the way games are made knows that PD, and everyone else, had to make tradeoffs to squeeze everything into the PS3 they could. I think we also give PD/Kaz a pass when it comes to these tradeoffs. Yes it would have been nice to have heat haze and standing starts etc. but we all understand why the tradeoffs were made, even if we don't agree with them. It's the design decisions that have nothing to do with PS3 limitations that give us concern for GT7. The whole chase the rabbit, rubber banding AI is a huge design decision that has little to do with the the PS3 limitations given that you could have a decent race against AI in GT5 in Arcade Mode. You can design the best looking game with the greatest features possible, but if they continue with AI that aren't scalable, that rubber band and have a rabbit to chase, it'll be all for naught for many players that really want a competitive offline career and races.
 
387
mokalovesoulmate
Because those vietnamese guys --> http://www.glassegg.com/portfolio.php <-- make the cars and tracks for them!

And PD has another mentality in that aspect - they want to make the cars and tracks by themself, its a matter of honor and such things.

At first I understand about the meaning about honor, perfectionist and such thing as myself respect a piece of software code.

But now everyone need everything good and fast. Can we still be perfectionist? Maybe we can, but we need something that delivers.

Is PD deliver a thing now? For me, no more.
 

mister dog

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At first I understand about the meaning about honor, perfectionist and such thing as myself respect a piece of software code.

But now everyone need everything good and fast. Can we still be perfectionist? Maybe we can, but we need something that delivers.

Is PD deliver a thing now? For me, no more.
mhhuwu7.jpg


No need for outsourcing there! LOL
 

Johnnypenso

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Because those vietnamese guys --> http://www.glassegg.com/portfolio.php <-- make the cars and tracks for them!

And PD has another mentality in that aspect - they want to make the cars and tracks by themself, its a matter of honor and such things.
One would think there could be more honour in turning out a larger number of premium cars along with a more up to date and more relevant car list. Getting rid of standards should bring some honour as well I would think. Nothing in "honour" should prevent them from continuing with the work they are already doing, but subbing out some work to an exterior design house for work on upgrading standards or adding even more cars to the car list. As it stands, it's quite possible that for the first time in history, towards the end of Forza 6 or with the launch in Forza 7, the Forza series could have the most unique premiums of any console game along with the most up to date and varied car list.
 
21,262
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VGchartz, the pinpoint accurate (:sly:) site they are has GT6 sales listed at 3.11 million worldwide, so it's probably a bit less than 3 million, and the number I had seen in a screencapped image recently was 2.875 million worldwide. For a racing game, that's still very strong numbers, but for a series that sells ~10 million for each major title release, that's a big disappointment.

Biggest impact on GT6 sales was the PS4's release. If I had a PS4 at launch, I probably would have thought twice about buying GT6, but I did end up getting a PS4 just a few months after launch and I hardly touched the PS3 after that.
 
10,993
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Tired_Tyres
Sorry, I just don't buy that. Even now there are many times more PS3 owners than PS4 owners.

I bought a PS4 and it is the console that is gathering dust whilst my PS3 is in constant daily use.

A newer console has never stopped me buying a game I want on an older system.
 
2,691
France
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VGchartz, the pinpoint accurate (:sly:) site they are has GT6 sales listed at 3.11 million worldwide, so it's probably a bit less than 3 million, and the number I had seen in a screencapped image recently was 2.875 million worldwide. For a racing game, that's still very strong numbers, but for a series that sells ~10 million for each major title release, that's a big disappointment.

Biggest impact on GT6 sales was the PS4's release. If I had a PS4 at launch, I probably would have thought twice about buying GT6, but I did end up getting a PS4 just a few months after launch and I hardly touched the PS3 after that.

What?

VG Chartz is still lower than the reality, often. Because they don't account demat, bundles and countries outside USA, Europe and Japan.

For GT6, you must add 1 million, at least.
 
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kudos00
I think everyone that knows even a little about the way games are made knows that PD, and everyone else, had to make tradeoffs to squeeze everything into the PS3 they could. I think we also give PD/Kaz a pass when it comes to these tradeoffs. Yes it would have been nice to have heat haze and standing starts etc. but we all understand why the tradeoffs were made, even if we don't agree with them. It's the design decisions that have nothing to do with PS3 limitations that give us concern for GT7. The whole chase the rabbit, rubber banding AI is a huge design decision that has little to do with the the PS3 limitations given that you could have a decent race against AI in GT5 in Arcade Mode. You can design the best looking game with the greatest features possible, but if they continue with AI that aren't scalable, that rubber band and have a rabbit to chase, it'll be all for naught for many players that really want a competitive offline career and races.
Can't argue there. Maybe his vision was skewed. But AI in racing games is not like any other. PD try to do it in a "genuine" way. I fully agree about the chasing the rabbit thing. Ugh. And there are a lot of components that I'm upset over in GT5/6 that can be changed very easily. Still, I'm not saying GT is great because of it's visual accomplishments. There's a reason there are hundreds of thousands still playing (not accounting for offline players).
 
21,262
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What?

VG Chartz is still lower than the reality, often. Because they don't account demat, bundles and countries outside USA, Europe and Japan.

For GT6, you must add 1 million, at least.
The screencap I saw was from a source that isn't VGChartz and it was done very recently. The number was below what VGChartz currently shows. Actually looking back at it now, GT6 total sales are around 2.785 million, so even my original post on the subject overstated it just a bit.
 
158
And PD has another mentality in that aspect - they want to make the cars and tracks by themself, its a matter of honor and such things.

Its a simple business decision on part of Sony, Kaz may be a perfectionist but I dont buy it for a second that he chooses to limit the team size or stops content from being outsourced just because he thinks that no one else can do a better job.

Im sure if Kaz always had his way, a lot of things would be different but GT brand is the property of Sony and so is PD. These are just measures to keep the costs down, considering the number of units gt sells PD can afford to have the largest workforce in the business but why do that when people dont have a choice on the console and your brand is still big, from a business perspective there is a tradeoff between short term profit and long term brand equity, you have a cash cow and you milk it as much as you can. Sony owns Kaz and I'm sure it has a lot to say about every decision that affects profitability for the parent. And with all the deep **** Sony has been in lately, im sure short term profitability was their primary focus.

MSs objective with forza has always been to develop it into a big brand, something like what GT was in the gt3 era and thats why theyre always trying to innovate and introduce new features, im sure game development decisions at T10 are a lot more market research driven than at PD and they are fine with a much lower ROI than at PD (usually the case when one of the brands is not as big as the other).

Whatever the case is, not launching a gt game within 1 year of a playstation launch is just wrong on so many levels even from sonys perspective. Graphics are a major part of what the gt brand means to the larger gaming community. Gt 3 was so freakin awesome because it blew people away, i know people who didn't even like sims at all and bought a copy just to experience it. But now consoles are very different from that era, now they are no where close to being as powerful as the most power pc hardware and if you wait 3 years into to ps4s life, an $80 gpu will probably outperform it and no matter how good they make it look, it will not have that wow factor for the larger gaming community and it will lose relevance as brand.

You can already see that happening, GT is not as big a deal as it used to be. Thanks to the ps3 era in which sony acted like a pimp drowning in dept with pd being one of its prettiest girls.
 
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Tired_Tyres
What?

VG Chartz is still lower than the reality, often. Because they don't account demat, bundles and countries outside USA, Europe and Japan.

For GT6, you must add 1 million, at least.

Found this on neogaf. First 6 months of 2014 in Europe. The single biggest market for Gran Turismo. 438,480. That doesn't include launch period in 2013 when most of the sales will have been made to those, including me, who didn't learn the lesson of GT5 - but it's even worse than I thought it would be and I saw it drop out of the UK charts really quickly after it came out.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873824

I hope when Kaz said that the next Gran Turismo would be very Gran Turismo he meant back to GT1,2 and 3's way of doing things or this franchise won't get many more chances.
 
8,818
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Found this on neogaf. First 6 months of 2014 in Europe. The single biggest market for Gran Turismo. 438,480. That doesn't include launch period in 2013 when most of the sales will have been made to those, including me, who didn't learn the lesson of GT5 - but it's even worse than I thought it would be and I saw it drop out of the UK charts really quickly after it came out.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873824

I hope when Kaz said that the next Gran Turismo would be very Gran Turismo he meant back to GT1,2 and 3's way of doing things or this franchise won't get many more chances.

I bought every Gran Turismo at launch from GT1 to GT5. GT5 was so bad in my opinion that I elected to skip GT6 entirely because it didn't fix any of the problems I had with GT5. GT7 will have to be beyond impressive to get my business back. I wouldn't buy GT6 for $5.

I'm posting this not to start any sort of argument, but just give an idea about why GT6 didn't do comparatively well and why GT7 will have to be pretty extraordinary. They can't continue on producing a subpar product and expect it to sell, I'm pretty much proof of that. I used to be a pretty big fan of the franchise but they've effectively lost me. Again, I have no feeling of entitlement, PD doesn't owe me anything. I could care less whether or not GT7 is great or ****. I'll buy it and enjoy it if it's good, but I'm getting too old for digital loyalty.
 
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10,993
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Tired_Tyres
I'd agree with that. I was so sure that PD would deliver with GT6 that I still pre ordered it dispute being so unimpressed by GT5. GT7 will be the first GT I don't buy at the first available opportunity.