So it begins - Paid DLC apparently, starting off with those new premium upgrades

  • Thread starter Thread starter Devedander
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DrTrouserPlank
I'm almost convinced that this game actually had a fair bit of content ripped out of it at the last minute to be kept as paid-for DLC. The unfinished, almost disjointed nature of the way the game is put together just doesn't make sense.
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That's pretty much what all of DLC is, a lot of it is developed way too fast to be actual new content. It's not new business, just really unfair to the consumer.
 
nyeboy
That's pretty much what all of DLC is, a lot of it is developed way too fast to be actual new content. It's not new business, just really unfair to the consumer.
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This...


I played a demo, don't remember what game it was, but there was already a game "store" inside the demo... So that right there pretty much shows YOu what's up!
 
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interludes
If Polyphony Digital want to charge for DLC, they have every right to - after all, they put in a lot of hard work to make it happen, and you don't get anything for free these days. Why should they spend hours, days and weeks labouring over it and then give it to you for nothing out of the goodness of their hearts? Polyphony Digital as a business, just as McDonald's or Boeing or Woolworths is. And the primary function of a business is to make money. If a business cannot make money, it cannot survive. And Polyphony cannot make DLC or GT6 if it does not survive.
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+1 👍
 
most DLC is things that should of been in the game from the start

i already paid a crazy amount for the game now they want more and more and more..
 
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Paying for DLC is not wrong, as interludes said. However, that doesn't mean I have to be happy to pay for content that should already be in the game.

By the way, :lol: at what somebody previously said about the box only featuring Premium cars. I saw the box on a friend's house, no mention of standard and Premium whatsoever. 👎 They are not lying, alright, but they are surely hiding a very sad reality.
 
Cronus70
Premium cars take up to 6 months each to model
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How so?

I would have thought that there will be an underlying framework model that is configured and then skinned appropriately with the digital imagery that they collected years ago.

If there isn't such a work-a-day application then whoever makes the development tool decisions at PD is an even bigger donkey than the progenitors of the camel of a game structure!
 
interludes
If Polyphony Digital want to charge for DLC, they have every right to - after all, they put in a lot of hard work to make it happen, and you don't get anything for free these days. Why should they spend hours, days and weeks labouring over it and then give it to you for nothing out of the goodness of their hearts? Polyphony Digital as a business, just as McDonald's or Boeing or Woolworths is. And the primary function of a business is to make money. If a business cannot make money, it cannot survive. And Polyphony cannot make DLC or GT6 if it does not survive.
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They aren't the best example, Woolworths went into administration, well in the UK anyway.

Charging for DLC in a deeply flawed and in places completely broken unfinished game isn't going to tempt me. Paying extra money for things that should have been in the game originally is lame.
 
Anything you spend your money on in terms of upgrade for cars or tracks is likely to be free and included in GT6. Which might not be that far away...
 
Don't see the problem with paying for DLC. There's definitely enough tracks and cars in GT5 to be considered a 'full game' even though there may be stuff we'd like to see that's not in there right now. I'd love to see more stuff up for download whether it costs a few bucks or not.
 
GT4 or even GTPSP had more tracks and more track variety. Seeing that some tracks really look like simple HD conversions of PS2 assets, I really don't see why after all this time they severly limited their number. Yes, if you only see their number (71) they seem a lot, but that's including reverses and the many variations that change almost nothing (La Sarthe 2005, Fuji or Monza with or without chicane, etc). So technically speaking GT5 is a full game, but it's been a step backward in several aspects compared to previous titles.
 
interludes
I've changed it to something a little less senationalist, then.
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Famine
I've read through the article a few times now and I still can't find the bit where it says it's paid DLC...
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an opportunity to purchase "premium" models of cars already in the game
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This combined with the apparently clearn and intentional deliniation between "patches" and "expanded content" makes it seem very much like they are talking about the difference between "free" (we owe you this much) patches and "paid" (this is extra and new) dlc.

So I changed it back then... hopefully that's ok since I suppose one can argue whether that's paid DLC or paid in game Cr but it hardly seems reasonable to bother bringing up purchasing with Cr and until it's known one way or the other I think paid DLC is as reasonable a take on that as any.

interludes
If Polyphony Digital want to charge for DLC, they have every right to - after all, they put in a lot of hard work to make it happen, and you don't get anything for free these days. Why should they spend hours, days and weeks labouring over it and then give it to you for nothing out of the goodness of their hearts? Polyphony Digital as a business, just as McDonald's or Boeing or Woolworths is. And the primary function of a business is to make money. If a business cannot make money, it cannot survive. And Polyphony cannot make DLC or GT6 if it does not survive.
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I have to disagree with your direction here. Who is talking about free? I paid for a product which isn't done... that's the opposite of free, that's pre paid! Why should they laybor and spend ours to give it to me? Because I already paid!

While it is their primary funciton to make money, I truly feel old becuase everywhere I look I am shocked at the eagerness of the consumer to protect and defend coprporations taking more of their money for less in return... It almost feels 1984!

It's fair for the corporation!!!

What about what's fair/good for the consumer? It seems very sheeple to be the consumer defending the company and not the other way around... personally I think corporatins have plenty of power and defense in their favor... they have already managed to convert us from buying an actual product to buying a license so you don't really own anything and they are now trying to use that to invalidate right of first sale and continually chip away at what you get for your $$$. Again maybe I am just getting old but I look at the history of what croporations (all , but definitely not game corporations excluded) have been doing and when I see someone try to defend a corprations profits based on being fair for the corporation after all they have done to tilt the tables in their favor I feel like screaming "DARN KIDS!!!! GET OFF MY LAWN!"

It may be their primary job to make money, but it's my primary job to defend the value of my hard earned $$$ and what they get me.
 
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Devedander
I have to disagree with your direction here. Who is talking about free? I paid for a product which isn't done... that's the opposite of free, that's pre paid! Why should they laybor and spend ours to give it to me? Because I already paid!

While it is their primary funciton to make money, I truly feel old becuase everywhere I look I am shocked at the eagerness of the consumer to protect and defend coprporations taking more of their money for less in return... It almost feels 1984!

It's fair for the corporation!!!

What about what's fair/good for the consumer? It seems very sheeple to be the consumer defending the company and not the other way around... personally I think corporatins have plenty of power and defense in their favor... they have already managed to convert us from buying an actual product to buying a license so you don't really own anything and they are now trying to use that to invalidate right of first sale and continually chip away at what you get for your $$$. Again maybe I am just getting old but I look at the history of what croporations (all , but definitely not game corporations excluded) have been doing and when I see someone try to defend a corprations profits based on being fair for the corporation after all they have done to tilt the tables in their favor I feel like screaming "DARN KIDS!!!! GET OFF MY LAWN!"

It may be their primary job to make money, but it's my primary job to defend the value of my hard earned $$$ and what they get me.
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Just logged in to say 'you hit the nail on the head'. 👍

It also sickens me to see customers defending the right of the corporations to make money, the reasoning being the corporation won't last without support. PD and Sony aren't small fish. Fortunately or unfortunately, they are not going away anytime soon and if they don't see revenue generated by DLC, they will eventually wonder what's going wrong here and try to rectify it. Not out of some love for the gamer, just to lift their bottom line. Look at EA and the turn around (if it can be called that) after 08-09.
 
Well if you do not want to pay for DLC do not buy it?

If gt5 is horribly not a full game, do not buy gt6?

I mean gt3 came out and gt4 was what 2 years later or so. Gt5 comes out it is not out of the realm that gt6 might be two years out now with a ton of stuff added that did not make it into gt5 because of lack of time and bugs.

Personally i would rather them do DLC for gt5, add tracks, add cars etc, and hold off on gt6 for ps4 or something.

And didn't he say that they might do DLC for gt5 or hold off and just use it in gt6? What you want it all free? Again if they do DLC for this game no one is holding a gun to your head to buy it either way. You either buy it or you do not simple as that.

With 5 million games or whatever sold, you can bet a good many people will pay if they add stuff they want, even if you do not. Long as they fix the bugs with the current game and sort out issues with free patches, i do not see where we get any right to demand anything beyond they fix the stuff that is broken.

Asking for free new content is silly especially in this day and age when every game has pay dlc like sony or PD is just trying to rip people off, microsoft does it, EA does it, activision does it, every publisher does it, some are worse at blatantly holding stuff out of games just to charge for it later. Day one DLC so reeks of, well it was in the game and we locked it out so you had to buy it, especially when there is no dl at all or a very tiny one to enable it in game.

I do not think there are a few hundred premium cars hidden on the gt5 disk where the stuff was done but they just rubbed their hands together with dollar signs in their eyes and thought stick it to the suckers.

I think gt5 genuinely had issues with many of the systems that kaz and team were working on but sony and fans were like get the thing out already you had 3, 4, 5 years and gt is a system seller period. But it is clear the online component was not finished properly, the track creator they are still working on it, stuff was not finished period.

If they charge for the unfinished stuff then i will start to complain. If they charge for bug fixes darn right i will complain. But if they adding new stuff and charging for it well i just think you should either buy or not rather than flame and fume about it.
 
sukerkin
How so?

I would have thought that there will be an underlying framework model that is configured and then skinned appropriately with the digital imagery that they collected years ago.

If there isn't such a work-a-day application then whoever makes the development tool decisions at PD is an even bigger donkey than the progenitors of the camel of a game structure!
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It was straight from Kazunori Yamauchi, he's been saying as much about the time it takes to develop a premium car since 2007 so either they are perfectionists down to the finest of details for each model they make or he's a liar!
I have even heard suggestions that the PS3 can't handle the detail they have made the models to and that the premium models are good enough to be future proof for next gen......
 
Cheers for the extra insight, Cronus 👍. From what you reference, it would indeed seem like PD have not developed the in-house tools that you would have expected them to.

That's not very sensible of them given that Premium-isation is something that they are sure to be doing a lot.
 
Cronus70
It was straight from Kazunori Yamauchi, he's been saying as much about the time it takes to develop a premium car since 2007 so either they are perfectionists down to the finest of details for each model they make or he's a liar!
I have even heard suggestions that the PS3 can't handle the detail they have made the models to and that the premium models are good enough to be future proof for next gen......
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The whole 'better suited for PS4' thing is questionable as to whether it was a legitimate statemetn trying to excuse the lack of premium cars by intoning their ineherent quality or whether it was kind of a tongue in cheek brag. There is no PS4, no one knows what it will be like and such a statement is fairly useless for any real value really. It is the norm to develop a model to a super high detail and scale it back until it fits your processing ability... this is how it's done with many games.

As for how long each car takes, the whole "1/18th model" on the bottom of one ofthe skylines makes me doubt whether they really went through as much as we think they did with their creation.
 
I was going to buy a ps3 in the january sales for GT5. But if this is true Sony and PD can forget my money.

If you release a game too early you can go **** yourself if you think I'm gonna pay hundreds of quid over the next few years for what you should have supplied in the game to begin with. Whatever happened to Kaz's no paid DLC promise? I've owned every GT game since the original, but they've lost my respect now. Think I'm gonna move over to PC sims instead now where I know what I get for my money and am not horribly disapointed it's so much less than I'm promised.
 
schuey87
I was going to buy a ps3 in the january sales for GT5. But if this is true Sony and PD can forget my money.

If you release a game too early you can go **** yourself if you think I'm gonna pay hundreds of quid over the next few years for what you should have supplied in the game to begin with. Whatever happened to Kaz's no paid DLC promise? I've owned every GT game since the original, but they've lost my respect now. Think I'm gonna move over to PC sims instead now where I know what I get for my money and am not horribly disapointed it's so much less than I'm promised.
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But where did he mention that there would be paid DLC?
 
skywolf23
Well if you do not want to pay for DLC do not buy it?
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This is kind of like the "if you don't like standards, don't use em" argument... sounds good in a vacumm, far from a reaslitic approach to a solution.

For one, there are so many people out there who don't realize when they are suckered that even if all of us who do realize choose not to buy, the DLC will still make money on their backs and as such the rest of us are stuck dealing with DLC being perpetuated as a standard.

And two, even more than the DLC, it's the direction the game devs are going by reeasing unfinished content and then SELLING the part they didn't do that should have been in the pacakge.

This would be like McDonalds selling you a big mac at full price but not giving you any buns. The buns cost $1 as "extra content". Then someone tells you "if you don't want the buns, don't buy them, what's the problem?"

Do you see the problem now?

schuey87
I was going to buy a ps3 in the january sales for GT5. But if this is true Sony and PD can forget my money.

If you release a game too early you can go **** yourself if you think I'm gonna pay hundreds of quid over the next few years for what you should have supplied in the game to begin with. Whatever happened to Kaz's no paid DLC promise? I've owned every GT game since the original, but they've lost my respect now. Think I'm gonna move over to PC sims instead now where I know what I get for my money and am not horribly disapointed it's so much less than I'm promised.
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Ironically when you think back, this is the same company that wanted to release GTHD as a microtransaction game where you would have ultimmately paid hundreds (was it thousands?) of dollars to buy all the content....
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
Problem is, in the original interview by Famitsu in japanese, Yamauchi never mentioned paid DLC.
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What Kaz says is always in questiono due to:

1: Translation
2: The nature of the way he says things being very wishy washy and unclear
3: The fact he seems to get caught up and excited and say things he shouldn't like the whole "updates every week or month" thing.

According to the article linked and the bolded portions, it seems very much like paid DLC is what they are describing, but trying to dodge the exact words like they dodged talking about standards.
 
Well the whole overarching debate of the sheer principle or lack thereof of DLC as a whole is one thing.

But in the context of gt5 show me any proof that stuff was done waiting on disk for you to pay for it. I have had games from EA where the stuff was clearly on the disk since all you get is the tiniest of downloads or simply a code to unlock your "new" content. Same for activision etc.

Now for the overall idea of DLC, most DLC is horrible some is great, companies that do great DLC? Bethesda almost all of their DLC adds hours to the game, new story new items so on. Some is much better than others, but all is high quality. They make new content for their games they do not hold stuff out to charge you for it later.

So while i agree that most DLC out there for many games is wholly stuff they cut or stuff they just overcharge for not all companies do that period. Lumping all DLC as bad and evil or an effort to rip you off is just biased period.

Arguing that PD is looking to purposely rip you off or that sony is just assuming that they are going to have payed DLC for gt5, which he said they might or they might hold it for gt6, plus we have no clear time frame, plus we have no DLC offers on the psn to even compare and contrast what is offered and how much it costs, or if it is even at all worth getting. If they have a 20 pack of premium skylines well easy skip for me. :P
 

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