So the AI sucks as usual. Not buying till it's competent.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mark folsom
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He would be a far better driver than most of us I guess, if he’s saying the AI gets better I’m all good with that.
You can visibly see it as he's been playing through... of course, certain people on here will naturally accuse of being biased purely because they view this forum as the FIA World Arguing Championship
 
You do know this is a forum, right, not an echo chamber?
Yes I am aware of that, I think you're the one need to be reminded of this with the way you insist that everyone agrees with you on everything otherwise you'll dogpile them with essay posts of pure drivel.

People are getting bored of your negativity-circle-jerk.
 
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Yes I am aware of that, I think you're the one need to be reminded of this with the way you insist that everyone agrees with you on everything otherwise you'll dogpile them with essay posts of pure drivel.
A forum having opinions! By god, get the fainting chair!

People are getting bored of your negativity-circle-jerk.
You. And you're free to have that opinion. But otherwise...
puts troll back on ignore
Man up and take your own advice.
 
Find a single player racing that gives you challenge and show us what a game changer it is for you
AI concerns you ? I am tired of it being highlighted each hecking time by the same prople eather pre during and post launch
Nothing new under the sun don't play it and stop complaining for as long as the sun will shine find people to compete with the game require full connection to play so use it to race again something that gives you peace or get the hell out
We had this since GT6 find YOUR piece and stop saying it we heard you the first time
We all acknowledge it that the AI can suck
Obviously you are stuck in this loop and you are not alone with it
Saying it over and over again will not give you peace but if you stop telling us we will have peace which is what matter at this point

I englobe all the regulars complainers not just you but heck if helle rains on me so be it
Îam out and done on the AI matter
 
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He goes and proves my point with the added bonus of a poorly disguised insult. Wasteman.
Again, take your own advice.

But back to the thread in question: the fact of the matter is that a game that focuses on single player should, at minimum, offer an AI that isn't the moving pylons that GT has used since 5, and preferably add a difficulty setting that can be scaled for difficulty based on driver skill. So many other games at least understand that concept, but GT hasn't. And no, 'just go online' isn't the magic bullet some think it is.
 
Again, take your own advice.

But back to the thread in question: the fact of the matter is that a game that focuses on single player should, at minimum, offer an AI that isn't the moving pylons that GT has used since 5, and preferably add a difficulty setting that can be scaled for difficulty based on driver skill. So many other games at least understand that concept, but GT hasn't. And no, 'just go online' isn't the magic bullet some think it is.
Why are you still replying then telling others not to respond? That desperate to get the last word in? You're beyond a wasteman, you're a wastegash.
 
Well said.

It's primarily a single player game. How many more years do they need to make the AI better? Even independent developers like Reiza can build decent AI.
Sophy is being worked on but how many more years question at this point becomes something like complaining a developer taking some time to make a new game and not that a sequel came out instantly.
I'd love a good AI, but I think it's pretty clear PD does not care. It's just not something they are interested in and since they sell millions of copies I guess the mainstream audience doesn't care either... All you can do is not to buy the game unfortunately.
The confirmation that is given is that Sophy won't be available at launch. But that won't mean they are doing nothing about it.

And for before, like pre-GTS, would you say PD does not care about features such as livery editor (or regarding sound, changed their mind in GTS or such as previously they were being delusional about the car sounds being fine)?
 
kjb
I guess the OP won't be buying GT7 as I don't see them improving the AI. I have no expectations for Sophy being added to the game via update. After seeing the State of Play I knew that wasn't going to be improved
Yh being honest this game is probably gonna be similar to how it is now for the rest of its life. I probably won't be buying another GT game after the disappointment this turned out to be. A single player racing game that had less then a 3rd of races (90) than GT sport with over 300 races. Just because we got missions and circuit experience that doesn't mean we shouldn't get races. So they make credits take ages to build up and give us barely any races? So we have to keep rinsing the same races over and over in order to get any credits. Honestly what an absolute joke. The online mode even pays like garbage compared to GT sport so the only way to switch things up and its not even worth doing unless its just for a bit of fun but as far as credits go its just not worth it.
I am not saying I hate the game as its not bad but its also not worthy of the hype it received. The only thing they have really improved on is tuning and they added a few extra single player game types but they were just a twist on licenses and nothing to major. Definitely not worth £70. You could have just released all the extra content from GT as DLC into GT sport. GT sport is arguably a better game. At least I didn't complete every single race in 3 days on that game. At least I didn't get burnt out from doing the same event over and over just to buy a car that I wanted. At least as well the online is actually balanced properly and doesn't contain a broken penalty system.
It makes me angry that everyone go on about how great this game is because their expectations have gotten so low or they are scared to make criticisms because their sub count on YouTube will sink. But at the end of the day if your being honest then GT7 hasn't really improved compared to previous games in the series because everything that's been added is at the cost of something else. I just can't get it through my head that we only got 90 race events. I mean this wouldn't be that bad if when you made your own races they paid more then 1/5 of the race events on the map but the fact you have to do these events to get cash is just ridiculous. A game with slow progression needs more content but PD were just thinking about slowing the progression in order to get people to buy credits. Cars from GT sport that cost £5 now cost £40 in GT7. 90% of the cars in GT7 were in GT sport so most of the cars in this game are from 2017. And yet most people say GT7 is the best game in the world...
If this game had at least 100 more races, an AI that wasn't just a copy and paste from GT sport, loads more cars from the last 5 years rather then a handful, the ability to sell cars you don't want, roulette tickets that aren't clearly rigged, An event that has tuning disabled in sport mode, more credits for custom races, cosmetic damage effect and a working penalty system in sport mode then I would say this game lived up to its hype. In its current state I think its purely just a cash cow not only to rip people off for credits but also to promote ps5 sales.
 
The early testers like Jimmy Broadbent and some others are passing cars left and right. Jimmy said he's a little bit disappointed in the AI.

So what's the point then? A little bit better graphics and a little bit improved physics?
So put it on hard take all the graphics off and play with a wheel a clutch pedal and proper gears OR if your that good stop playing racing games and do it for real.
 
Personally I didn't noticed any difference between easy and hard, unless your car is severely gimped and you have like 2 laps to crawl from last to first
 
Personally I didn't noticed any difference between easy and hard, unless your car is severely gimped and you have like 2 laps to crawl from last to first
Most of the game's difficulty comes from the AI being literal miles ahead of you and you being unable to make up the difference. More often then not the difficulty 'settings' don't matter, because it's either that, or you blitz them, either because the event actually has (slight) differences in AI pace or you just decide to build a car right to the PP limit and blast by them anyway, so the difficulty settings don't matter anyway once more.
 
Only problems I had was when lead was 40s away and fuel/tires factors were involved, anything in between is really just a traffic, that rain race on Tsukuba gave me troubles, I came second first time and 1 minute ahead the second time because I used rally car, which was not affected by hydroplaning
 
I imagine that if the game were PS5 exclusive we would have sophy but having to make it PS4/PS5 they had to go with the old format. It's not there fault they can't make PS5's fast enough it's just the sate of the world right now. Would you rather try and tolerate the Forza AI ram fest? I sure wouldn't.
 
I actually gave in to the hype, and bought it.

I probably put about 6 hours in total and now I'm done. I'm not the type of person that likes to chase that next car. So it's all about the driving and the racing and the competition for me..

It just doesn't have it. In my opinion this is GT sport with a little bit better graphics, and arcade level driving set on higher difficulty.

And for the record, I do like actual sims. I have ACC, AC, and RF2.

Wish I could sell my digital copy.
 
To me it feels more like upgraded GTS if anything and in some aspects even a downgrade, ps5 is at its limit, pushing 230 watts while playing this game, I doubt they could optimize it any further, considering it's running at 4k,if they added 1440p, maybe, otherwise ps5 is not really that powerful, any midrange gpu from 2017 will be able to match it, hence the price
 
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For the first clip, I cannot begin to describe how much I hate that the AI still moves over to let you by, from so far ahead, even though your closing speed isn't especially massive. A little bit of defending from the AI would go a long way, as it would make things more immersive, and also force players to actually learn how to effectively challenge for overtakes.

In the 2nd clip, it does show that the AI can at least be fast (though I feel like you brake a bit too early in a few of places), but its ability to be "racey" still leaves a lot to be desired. I feel like the Yellow GT3 spent way too much time stuck behind the White GT3 considering how quickly the both of you caught up to him, and is hesitant to go for the pass. You can hear the Yellow GT3 get off the throttle a few times, tap the brakes when getting close to the White GT3 (to me that looked like a corner that could've been taken flat-out without touching the brakes), and it kinda sounds like the Yellow GT3 reduces throttle input while moving for the pass. And in the end, it still gets off the racing line and slows down to let you past. :indiff:

My question at this point for the people playing GT7, and please be honest, is how often do one or both of these situations happen in normal gameplay? Do AI mess up and spin out relatively frequently, or was that a once-in-a-blue-moon situation that you managed to get? Do these kind of "battles" for position happen frequently, in spite of the "catch-the-rabbit" rolling starts? To me it looked like the Yellow GT3 was significantly faster, but much like GT5 & 6, didn't want to actually win.
 
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This ridiculous whining here regarding the Ai and whatnot for far-fetched ridiculous reasons to criticize something about the game. And then partly by people who can't even begin to judge what and how they play it and are totally blinded that this game is guaranteed to develop very far and certainly also very well.

The AI is on hard for me and in some races it's really good and crisp, in other races and especially if you're driving a hopelessly exaggeratedly better car, you don't notice the AI because you've overtaken them all after 2 laps at the latest.

It is known that Sophie will be implemented later via update. And I challenge EVERYONE of you who opens your mouth so much when Sophie Life is 10 rudes on the Nürburgring Nordschleife to drive on the hardest difficulty and win.
Anyone who succeeds in doing this is allowed to continue to whine in such a nonsensical and childish way... All others may please delete the game by then at the latest and then no longer allow their account to be seen here in the Gran Turismo area.

@mark... yes of course the game itself is said to have been played for 6 hours and then you have the audacity to be able to give qualified opinions here.... Come on in your life you are a braggart in my eyes.
 
For the first clip, I cannot begin to describe how much I hate that the AI still moves over to let you by, from so far ahead, even though your closing speed isn't especially massive. A little bit of defending from the AI would go a long way, as it would make things more immersive, and also force players to actually learn how to effectively challenge for overtakes
Thats what he was doing, defending.

My question at this point for the people playing GT7, and please be honest, is how often do one or both of these situations happen in normal gameplay?
A lot actually. I've even had yellow flag situations for accidents ahead of me. And I'll be uploading a video tonight of a race I did last night at Catalunya where I finished 2nd because the lead car was apparently drinking some of that Sophy juice. Got within 1.5 seconds but a pass was impossible.
 
The AI is on hard for me and in some races it's really good and crisp
That's a problem that can be very easily fixed at a structural level, if Polyphony simply realized that the AI has been bad for more then a decade now. They haven't.

It is known that Sophie will be implemented later via update.
As a helper. We have no idea whether or not it will be actually implemented as an AI system, only that Polyphony sees Sophy, at the moment, as a helper, and at most a potential online challenge to see who in the community can 'beat' Sophy in a one off event. Nowhere in the Sophy presentation or papers did they say that Sophy would be implemented as an AI opponent, and considering the fact that the experiment needed however many PS4's hooked up to a cloud network in order to work, we can surmise quite easily that Sophy is not coming to PS4, a not insignificant part of the player base. So what do you expect these players to do? Buy a PS5 to get competent AI and difficulty settings?

Literally, the way that Sophy is being talked up by some here as a knight in shining armor seems like huffing copium in order to get away from the fact that this issue of terrible is easily fixed by Polyphony actually putting in the resources to fix it, instead of roundabout (and frankly, untenable) solutions that come across as using a sledgehammer to open a chestnut. And certainly seems horrificially divorced from the actual reality of Sophy being a teaching tool at best and being applied as AI to be raced against in one off events at most.
Anyone who succeeds in doing this is allowed to continue to whine in such a nonsensical and childish way... All others may please delete the game by then at the latest and then no longer allow their account to be seen here in the Gran Turismo area.
Way to think highly of yourself.
 
This ridiculous whining here regarding the Ai and whatnot for far-fetched ridiculous reasons to criticize something about the game.
Yes, how dare people be concerned about and want to discuss the state of the single-player AI in the single-player portion of the game. /s

AI has long been a problem with GT games since GT5, and it's continued to be an issue up to this point, in spite of Kaz's continued claims that the AI has been improved over time. Hell, the founder of this very website had a whole section of his initial review blasting the AI in GT7. Considering the close ties GTP has to Sony and PD, there's quite a bit to lose if that claim didn't have some truth to it.
And then partly by people who can't even begin to judge what and how they play it and are totally blinded that this game is guaranteed to develop very far and certainly also very well.
The notion of "things will get better with updates" isn't exactly a great one, especially since we do not know for sure that the AI will be touched at all in future updates. I'd prefer not to give PD cop-outs in areas that they 100% have the capability of being better in.
It is known that Sophie will be implemented later via update.
We still don't know in what capacity Sophie will be used, if any. At no point has PD and/or Sony said that Sophie would replace all of GT7s AI.

For all we know Sophie could be used as some kind of "show off" event for the game, kinda like Hi-Fi mode in GT1.
Thats what he was doing, defending.
I would be more inclined to believe that if the AI didn't A) move over so far away from the corner entry (I could see it if it was basically almost immediately before the ideal braking zone), and B) visibly slow down before hitting the brakes.
A lot actually. I've even had yellow flag situations for accidents ahead of me. And I'll be uploading a video tonight of a race I did last night at Catalunya where I finished 2nd because the lead car was apparently drinking some of that Sophy juice. Got within 1.5 seconds but a pass was impossible.
Hmm, I'll take your word for it there since it's only one clip.
 
I would be more inclined to believe that if the AI didn't A) move over so far away from the corner entry (I could see it if it was basically almost immediately before the ideal braking zone), and B) visibly slow down before hitting the brakes.
I was coming up on him quick in the slipstream and he moved over to protect the inside. Not sure what kind of racing you watch but that was a fairly normal move from the real world that I'm happy to see the AI do. Bonus that he made a mistake and it cost him the position. I see nothing but positives in that clip.
 
The issue I'm having with the AI conversation is that a lot of people are mistaking the race format with the AI quality. So far from what I have seen the AI is a vast improvement over GT Sport and for that matter every Gran Turismo open till 4. The real mistake PD made is having the AI hidden behind that stupid rolling start format. I just did a GT3 race where I fought hard to crawl up two spots only to lose ot after going to deep into a turn. I am by no means slow , I had a SR rating of S ( never bothered raising it after a bad race tanked it and I quit sport mode) . The races in the cafe books but are suggested peepees and the car's range from a low PP to that suggested PP these races are by no means meant to be competitive and I will agree are really stupid chase the rabbit. Tell me the Chillip pepper Clubman cup + AI is bad. They litteraly dump draft and block hyper agressivley. Oh i have also seen cars spin out and hit the wall in front of me.. This was unicorn stuff in GT sport.
 
The issue I'm having with the AI conversation is that a lot of people are mistaking the race format with the AI quality. So far from what I have seen the AI is a vast improvement over GT Sport and for that matter every Gran Turismo open till 4. The real mistake PD made is having the AI hidden behind that stupid rolling start format. I just did a GT3 race where I fought hard to crawl up two spots only to lose ot after going to deep into a turn. I am by no means slow , I had a SR rating of S ( never bothered raising it after a bad race tanked it and I quit sport mode) . The races in the cafe books but are suggested peepees and the car's range from a low PP to that suggested PP these races are by no means meant to be competitive and I will agree are really stupid chase the rabbit. Tell me the Chillip pepper Clubman cup + AI is bad. They litteraly dump draft and block hyper agressivley. Oh i have also seen cars spin out and hit the wall in front of me.. This was unicorn stuff in GT sport.
That is ultimately the most frustrating part. The AI does seem to be, on the whole, better. Not massively, but a bit.

PD promised us for the first time we could choose difficulty options for the career mode but then they went and nerfed it by still having them scale upwards in the Cafe Book races, meaning the first chunk are easy no matter what. Then they went and added a bunch of events that are fixed difficulty, and generally hard from what I can tell.

That helps nobody. Faster people are frustrated that a huge amount of races are too easy, more casual/slower players are frustrated at hard events that their easy difficulty setting doesn't affect.

Then of course we have the forced starting format, where 90% are fixed as the spaced out rolling starts, the other 10% are fixed as grid starts.

The single player in this game could be improved tenfold with no actual new improvements added. Just the option to change the start format and a difficulty option that affects ALL races. If I want all the Cafe Book races to be standing start, with the hardest AI, that should be an OPTION. For those who want an easy ride through, or for those that do actually enjoy the catch up format, let them have that OPTION as well.

I thought it as finally happening when PD announced difficulty settings in the career mode but then they went and still PD'd it.
 
That is ultimately the most frustrating part. The AI does seem to be, on the whole, better. Not massively, but a bit.

PD promised us for the first time we could choose difficulty options for the career mode but then they went and nerfed it by still having them scale upwards in the Cafe Book races, meaning the first chunk are easy no matter what. Then they went and added a bunch of events that are fixed difficulty, and generally hard from what I can tell.

That helps nobody. Faster people are frustrated that a huge amount of races are too easy, more casual/slower players are frustrated at hard events that their easy difficulty setting doesn't affect.

Then of course we have the forced starting format, where 90% are fixed as the spaced out rolling starts, the other 10% are fixed as grid starts.

The single player in this game could be improved tenfold with no actual new improvements added. Just the option to change the start format and a difficulty option that affects ALL races. If I want all the Cafe Book races to be standing start, with the hardest AI, that should be an OPTION. For those who want an easy ride through, or for those that do actually enjoy the catch up format, let them have that OPTION as well.

I thought it as finally happening when PD announced difficulty settings in the career mode but then they went and still PD'd it.
I do feel the AI is massively better because It blocks, slipstreams, and can actually keep pace now, and there is no longer a car that is massively faster even in one make. I have had an edge of my seat races, I haven't had races like that since GT3 and more recently PC2. In that GT3 race, I mentioned, I had THREE cars attempt to overtake me, which means that behind me they were overtaking each other. In Sport, the AI would never pass themselves past the first few turns..

I understand the reasoning for rolling starts, 4wd cars have a massive advantage regardless of PP when launching. , that being said they can implement a grid-style rolling start, I'm sure both of us would be ok with that, I hate the stupid train rolling start we have now, it's dumb and PD purposely pads 75% of the grid with slow cars that you make easy work of, and the top 3 guys do put up a good race but are also a bit slower than the recommended PP rating ( or in some instances way faster for no reason) .

The point is That AI is way better, but due to poor design choices is not shown off well, we need to STOP saying the AI is bad and rightfully criticize the format it is being presented in, It's like becoming a better artist but putting your painting behind dirty opaque glass. We have good AI now, it is just being used in a really bad format that even me and you being humans would not shine under, If you gave me a OP car and made me race against all of you starting from the back, I would win and it would be quite boring and you guys would all seem brain dead. ( but PD somehow made that incredibly fun with shuffle racing haha) Polyphony has a history of doing this, They created incredibly detailed cars in GT5/6 but have no proper way of viewing the interiors. Made rally car classes for sport but never really used them. Made a pretty bonkers weather system in this game that is underused, and no endurance racing to show off those 24-hour cycles. That's why I feel GT 7 deserved praise for the Cafe, they managed to implement something Kaz has unsuccessfully been trying to do since 5, car culture history. Let's be real, who actually went into the museum in sport or collected the cards in 5.. some folks did , but I bet 99% never did .
 
That being said they can implement a grid-style rolling start
Yes, nothing wrong with realistic rolling starts.
The point is That AI is way better, but due to poor design choices is not shown off well, we need to STOP saying the AI is bad
Well I mean yeah it's better, but it's still got a long way to go before it's on the same level as some competitors, so we still need to push PD to improve it further in terms of pace and racecraft.
 
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