So what happened to that Racing License that GTS was supposed to grant?

[SimTourist]

Remember when Yamauchi said you could earn a real racing license through GT Sport by competing in their official championships? That was what, 7 years ago now. What happened? Do the winners really only get those 5 dollar plastic Cups for all their efforts?
I remember a lot of people hyping those statements up to rub it into the faces of other racing franchises fans, only to amount to nothing.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gran-turismo-sport-will-let-you-earn-a-real-racing/1100-6441292/

 

[Famine]

Remember when Yamauchi said you could earn a real racing license through GT Sport by competing in their official championships?

Yes.
https://www.gtplanet.net/early-details-on-gran-turismo-sports-fia-digital-licensing-requirements/

That was what, 7 years ago now.

Nearly six.

What happened?

As of last year, it's still in development. While the FIA is behind the idea, the fundamental issue is that the various national governing bodies of motorsport have to accept that learning about basic racecraft, regulations and behaviour from a game is equal to the theory part of the racing licence - in which you learn about it from a 30-minute video and then answer 16 multiple choice questions.

As several of the questions deal with marshalling (which isn't in the game)*, I'm not sure that'll ever actually happen. Maybe recent pro-drivers-do-sim-racing events will renew the appetite to get it moving though.


*There is also a trick question about the race start flag. This is also not in the game.

 

[SimTourist]

@Famine What was the point of announcing such a thing when it's way beyond Yamauchi's, PD or Sony's control? They don't have any real leverage in the racing world. There's a reason why such a license is very hard to obtain, and they thought their videogame could help bypass that process?

 

[Famine]

@Famine What was the point of announcing such a thing when it's way beyond Yamauchi's, PD or Sony's control? They don't have any real leverage in the racing world.

It was something that PD and the FIA were jointly working on.

There's a reason why such a license is very hard to obtain

It really isn't.

There's four things you need to do to get a racing licence. The first is medical certification that you probably won't drop dead while driving. The second is to pay some money (~£200) and go to a certified instructor at a driving school. Third is you watch a 30-minute video (it may not even be that long, actually; it just seemed long) and answer a bunch of multiple-choice questions and a couple of written questions to check you understood the video. Finally you go out on track for a couple of laps at walking pace to show you can follow a racing line around a track. Once everything is stamped, you give it and £50 to your local motorsport governing body.

That's it. That's literally all of it.

and they thought their videogame could help bypass that process?

The FIA and PD both still think that.

In principle they're right. If you drive in GT Sport and follow a racing line, you've done the practical bit. If you watch the Racing Etiquette videos you've done half the theory bit. The yellow, green, blue, and chequered flags cover most of the other half.

What's missing is the other flags (black, black/white, national) and marshalling (seriously, half the multiple choice questions have the answer of "follow the marshalls' instructions"). If the game had that, it would be a perfectly adequate substitute for the National B Licence test... but your local motorsport body would probably still want the £50 you pay them for the application...

 

[SimTourist]

It was something that PD and the FIA were jointly working on.

It really isn't.

There's four things you need to do to get a racing licence. The first is medical certification that you probably won't drop dead while driving. The second is to pay some money (~£200) and go to a certified instructor at a driving school. Third is you watch a 30-minute video (it may not even be that long, actually; it just seemed long) and answer a bunch of multiple-choice questions and a couple of written questions to check you understood the video. Finally you go out on track for a couple of laps at walking pace to show you can follow a racing line around a track. Once everything is stamped, you give it and £50 to your local motorsport governing body.

That's it. That's literally all of it.

The FIA and PD both still think that.

In principle they're right. If you drive in GT Sport and follow a racing line, you've done the practical bit. If you watch the Racing Etiquette videos you've done half the theory bit. The yellow, green, blue, and chequered flags cover most of the other half.

What's missing is the other flags (black, black/white, national) and marshalling (seriously, half the multiple choice questions have the answer of "follow the marshalls' instructions"). If the game had that, it would be a perfectly adequate substitute for the National B Licence test... but your local motorsport body would probably still want the £50 you pay them for the application...

I see. That's very interesting. Wonder why they haven't bothered to add the missing elements in the last 4 years.

 

[Famine]

I see. That's very interesting. Wonder why they haven't bothered to add the missing elements in the last 4 years.

To an extent, the national flag is sort of in there (in high level races, planes do a flypast in national flag colours), but almost everything else is simply inapplicable. You could make a decent argument for a black or black/white flag for too many penalties, but there's no mechanical failures to warrant the meatball, and no need for medical cars or circuit repair machinery to bring out the white flag. Cars don't spill oil - the commonest, but not exclusive, cause of the yellow/red flag - and there are no race-ending circumstances to bring out the red flag.

As for following the marshalls' instructions, you don't park your car up, get out, and go where they tell you - and you don't have to look for fire posts to put out your burning car. And in any case, the marshalls and their weird, broken wrists, don't interact with you in any way.

GT Sport would need to be significantly more complex to pack this all in, and I'm not entirely sure any game or simulation has all of these flags and interactive marshalls.


In principle, this could be a Racing Etiquette video (though it would be hard to show with in-game footage), because it pretty much is in the real world too.

 

[8l23ub]

If you were PD, would you be happy taking the responsibility for introducing half of the loons in Sports Mode to Certified instructors and Motorsport Authorities around the world. Kaz would have to attend events incognito.

 

[bduddy]

There's four things you need to do to get a racing licence. The first is medical certification that you probably won't drop dead while driving. The second is to pay some money (~£200) and go to a certified instructor at a driving school. Third is you watch a 30-minute video (it may not even be that long, actually; it just seemed long) and answer a bunch of multiple-choice questions and a couple of written questions to check you understood the video. Finally you go out on track for a couple of laps at walking pace to show you can follow a racing line around a track. Once everything is stamped, you give it and £50 to your local motorsport governing body.

I assume what you're saying is all UK-specific? I know here in the US is a unique case because the local branch of the FIA has basically no authority. You get your license from one of the sanctioning bodies. In my case, the SCCA, they still require a 3-day on-track driving school. I don't know what the requirements for other sanctioning bodies are, or other countries. It could be that most of them are very different from what you described.

 

[larrybr07n]

If you were PD, would you be happy taking the responsibility for introducing half of the loons in Sports Mode to Certified instructors and Motorsport Authorities around the world. Kaz would have to attend events incognito.

To be fair, there are plenty of loons who get a driving licence already

 

[Famine]

I know here in the US is a unique case because the local branch of the FIA has basically no authority. You get your license from one of the sanctioning bodies.

That's the case everywhere.

The FIA doesn't do squat when it comes to licensing. Each FIA member nation has a representative "National Sporting Authority" (ASN... because French) which is ultimately responsible for competition licences. In the UK that's Motorsport UK (MUK... honestly. MUK), and in the USA it's actually ACCUS. However ACCUS only processes international licences, and delegates responsibility for domestic licensing to its six member clubs, of which the SCCA is just one - IndyCar, NASCAR and even NHRA issue their own competition licences.

I'm not hugely surprised that SCCA has made it more costly complex, and apparently it also requires three actual races before you get a full competition licence (for MUK you've got the full National licence when you pass the theory and can go round a track without crashing; you need a couple of races [I think six] to get a higher level licence, and 12 will get you an International licence), which is... odd.

Australia's governing body, CAMS, is very similar to the UK. There's a medical declaration, an "online lecture" (video that tells you about flags and marshalls), and an "observed licence test" to show you can control a car and take it round a track... but you need to be a member of a motorsport club. Otherwise that's it.

I've had a hunt round for a few others and they're pretty much on a theme. Ireland is like the UK, except you can only do the course at Mondello Park. The Maltese one gives you a Novice licence with literally no physical driving test; you can just join a club, apply for a licence and go race. You need four signatures to upgrade to National though.


And that pretty much defines the problem.

Assuming GT Sport can overcome the hurdle of the flags it cannot possibly use and the marshalls who don't exist - perhaps just including a straightforward video, to act in place of the "online lecture" - the varying ASNs still have different requirements for licensing. In many places, just being able to drive a car around a track at 50mph is sufficient, and GT Sport can demonstrate that. If the SCCA wants $3k off you for a three-day course to class as a novice - and not even a full licence holder - it likely won't accept GT Sport as a substitute, while a lot of the rest of the world will. Until they all will, PD and the FIA don't have a Digital Licence.