So why aren't the tires fixed?

[xNeroZero]

Bug Fixes

* Fixed a problem where Karts and Ferrari F1 cars could drive together with other cars in the Lounge
* Fixed a rarely occurring issue in which the system freezes when exiting the lounge
* Fixed a problem where you could purchase tires for the 125 SPL racing Kart in the tuning parts shop (Tires purchased previously will now become invalid)
* Fixed a problem in which the straight-line stability of the Lancer Evolution X was decreased when using a steering wheel controller
* Fixed an issue where wrong color dirt and snow tire wheels were displayed on some cars when the wheels were changed
* Fixed delay when launching electric cars using controllers other than a steering wheel controller pedal
* Fixed a rarely occurring issue where the system would freeze at the end of a race
* Fixed an issue where it becomes difficult to hear your own car when driving with other race cars in online races, etc.

They fixed an issue where you could drive F1 cars and go carts with other people, but they don't fix the tires? Good job PD. I like how they listed that it was a "rarely" occurring issue when you freeze. It happens to me a lot in GT5.

 

[Famine]

They fixed an issue where you could drive F1 cars and go carts with other people

Their agreement with Ferrari precludes driving the Ferrari F1s on track with any other car. The fact people could actually do this is a bug that could end up with them being sued (at worst) or losing the Ferrari licence (at best). This would be classed as an important bugfix.

but they don't fix the tires?

Fix them how?

I like how they listed that it was a "rarely" occurring issue when you freeze. It happens to me a lot in GT5.

And now it'll happen much less or not at all. Good job PD!

 

[xNeroZero]

Fix them how?

What do you mean, "how"? In the beginning they were fake, then they did something that made them ware really fast. If I can't do more than 5 laps on Le Mans in LMPs with racing mediums, then the tires need to be fixed.

 

[Famine]

What do you mean, "how"?

Describe what the problem is and what the solution is.

This was a problem: Ferrari F1 cars can be driven on track with other non-Ferrari F1 cars (breaching licensing agreements).
This was the solution: Fix the bug/exploit that permitted this.

In order to "fix the tires", the problem must be known and described and the solution formulated. The above solution was easy - it was a glitch that "just" required some code-hunting. Once found it could be written out.

In the beginning they were fake

Okay, I'll take your word for it that the tyres were "fake" - but it's not very descriptive (fake how? Which of the millions of parameters governing tyre behaviour were "fake"? Probably most of them, to be honest - that's games for you) and since it no longer applies it's not really relevant.

then they did something that made them ware really fast.

Okay, "something" was done to them that made them wear really fast. Ignoring the vagueness of "something", we have at least identified a problem - the tyres wear really fast.

The nature of the problem isn't clear though. How fast is "really fast"? Have you conducted an examination of the wear of all the tyre grades as applied to different vehicles on different circuits? Have you eliminated factors like surface moisture and driving styles - say, perhaps, allowing a B-Spec Bob to drive one on medium pace?

If I can't do more than 5 laps on Le Mans in LMPs with racing mediums, then the tires need to be fixed.

Why?

In addition to the above - you aren't eliminating variables like driving style - what kind of tyre wear would you expect to see on genuine tyres at a genuine Le Mans 24hr race? Why do you suppose that "racing mediums" in GT5 are equivalent tyres for that kind of wear?

At this point you still haven't established that there is a problem to be fixed, much less a reason to, a method to effect the fix or a cause for a sarcastic "Good job PD!" post because they haven't done so.

That's not to say that there isn't a problem regarding tyres (I can think of at least three), but that you haven't established that your specific complaint is one. That'll probably be why they haven't done it - plus they were too busy uselessly fixing bugs to retain their Ferrari licences stop themselves being sued to oblivion, so they had a product for the next GT release.

 

[Apmaddock]

Ever heard of one-lap specials?

Perhaps you're racing with tires that were meant for qualifying.

Set the names aside for a minute, and think of the tires more on a constant scale simultaneously from longest to shortest lasting and from hardest to softest.

Maybe there is nothing wrong with them, after all. Maybe this is exactly what PD wanted to get out of them.

 

[JLawrence]

At this point, I am still of the opinion that the racing hard tires possess a supernatural level of grip, but I won't complain about that because I feel as though if these were removed from the game we wouldn't have as many casual racers online, some of which I have found are very fun to run against. My only issue to date is the longevity of the tires. For example at Le Mans last year or the year before Audi was running 13 lap stints in between pit stops (total of 33 over the course of the race), double stinting at times both the tires and the driver. I am of the opinion that when running my LMP cars on that track I should expect similar results, but the few times I have been able to stretch my RH tires to just the first stint the grip is just gone. One more example and I will get off of my pedestal. On my 63 Spitfire racer I can usually run two, sometimes three race weekends on a single set of tires before I need to change them out. That's roughly 10 hours of track time! I understand why the game doesn't allow you to be that conservative with your tires, but still. I would think it would be some simple coding to modify that much.

 

[Famine]

My only issue to date is the longevity of the tires. For example at Le Mans last year or the year before Audi was running 13 lap stints in between pit stops (total of 33 over the course of the race), double stinting at times both the tires and the driver. I am of the opinion that when running my LMP cars on that track I should expect similar results, but the few times I have been able to stretch my RH tires to just the first stint the grip is just gone.

If you watch the AI's pit schedules you'll see that they can - depending on the car - run 13-16 lap stints on RH. Yes, that's shorter than reality but there are two things to remember.

First, we're driving much faster than reality (normal for a racing game - you can always run faster if you're not being fatigued by various forces and if you have no fear of death) and you should expect that to translate to more tyre wear. Second, we have no reference point for what grip/life any tyre in any GT game should have - they're just generic "racing" compound grades with no connection to reality. What we call "racing hard" may be equivalent to a middling real-life compound (or not) - which may go part of the way to explaining why they have more grip and less life than you'd expect a hard real-life compound...

I understand why the game doesn't allow you to be that conservative with your tires, but still. I would think it would be some simple coding to modify that much.

It is interesting at a LAN to see those who look after their tyres (daan) compared to those who don't. In a GT4 LAN daan won a ten lap race at a canter as everyone else burned their softs to the canvas in eight laps

But yes, there are many gaming reasons why having tyres exactly true to life is not ideal. I don't think GT5 has quite got the balance - there's no wear at all in lower level races, so there's no reason to alter wear levels for lower level gamers, while people who enjoy enduros would enjoy a more true-to-life challenge.

 

[FlyinHawaiian77]

I complained about the tire issue also. But its been so long since that problem was introduced that Ive just learned to deal with it.

I race in a couple of leagues, so ot bothered us at first. But its not like its a disadvantage. Everyone is still on the same playing field.

 

[yanaran]

In 2011 the Audi R18 did 11 laps per tank of fuel. They did 4 fuel stops per tire/driver change. That means they ran 44 laps per set. They did all of this while lapping 3'26 to 3'33 with traffic. That's about 3 hours out of a racing slick.

In GT5 the car that's closest to current specs is the pug908 and even a good driver will struggle to consistently match those lap times with racing hards, and they don't even last ONE fuel tank.

Quick fix: Double the endurance on mediums and 5x the endurance on hards. Leave softs and grip levels the same.

 

[JLawrence]

I do have some experience in true life racing in my own car and some others, and just from my own track time I would equate the RMs with the high end slicks, RH with middling SCCA level slicks, and the SS tires with what I currently use, but I do agree that this is still conjecture because I have yet to be fortuitous enough to get to run anything that really uses the best of the best.

The only solution that I can think of would be to maybe add in an "Endurance" tire that can be used in races of say 75 laps or more?

 

[Famine]

Ultimately they need to de-generic the tyres. Once we know what in-game tyre X equates to in real life, we have a reference point for how the tyre behaves compared to real life.

This isn't - probably - something for GT5. But then they have made some very surprisingly deep changes to the game with updates so far - so never say never.

 

[xNeroZero]

Describe what the problem is and what the solution is.

This was a problem: Ferrari F1 cars can be driven on track with other non-Ferrari F1 cars (breaching licensing agreements).
This was the solution: Fix the bug/exploit that permitted this.

In order to "fix the tires", the problem must be known and described and the solution formulated. The above solution was easy - it was a glitch that "just" required some code-hunting. Once found it could be written out.



Okay, I'll take your word for it that the tyres were "fake" - but it's not very descriptive (fake how? Which of the millions of parameters governing tyre behaviour were "fake"? Probably most of them, to be honest - that's games for you) and since it no longer applies it's not really relevant.



Okay, "something" was done to them that made them wear really fast. Ignoring the vagueness of "something", we have at least identified a problem - the tyres wear really fast.

The nature of the problem isn't clear though. How fast is "really fast"? Have you conducted an examination of the wear of all the tyre grades as applied to different vehicles on different circuits? Have you eliminated factors like surface moisture and driving styles - say, perhaps, allowing a B-Spec Bob to drive one on medium pace?



Why?

In addition to the above - you aren't eliminating variables like driving style - what kind of tyre wear would you expect to see on genuine tyres at a genuine Le Mans 24hr race? Why do you suppose that "racing mediums" in GT5 are equivalent tyres for that kind of wear?

At this point you still haven't established that there is a problem to be fixed, much less a reason to, a method to effect the fix or a cause for a sarcastic "Good job PD!" post because they haven't done so.

That's not to say that there isn't a problem regarding tyres (I can think of at least three), but that you haven't established that your specific complaint is one. That'll probably be why they haven't done it - plus they were too busy uselessly fixing bugs to retain their Ferrari licences stop themselves being sued to oblivion, so they had a product for the next GT release.

The tires don't last, it doesn't matter what compound you're using. They don't last, if racing hards give you only half a lap over with mediums there's no point in using the hards to get an advantage over the other racer, this is what I've witnessed. Another issue I've noticed is how the tires heat up. From what I've seen it seems they heat up within a few turns, it should at least take a few laps. When trying to qualify on racing tires you can't put in consistent laps, I can only put in about 2 good laps on Suzuka with racing mediums in a GT500, before I have to pit on lap 5 because my tires are at half.

 

[JLawrence]

That could be a pretty cool feature, though I don't know what sort of licensing and work it would take to implement a feature such as that (that is if you're referring to being able to use specific tires such as the Pirelli P-Zero or Firestone Firehawk)

I know that I would certainly love to throw some Hoosier TD's on my Spit and try to match its real life counterpart!

 

[CodeRedR51]

What do you mean, "how"? In the beginning they were fake, then they did something that made them ware really fast. If I can't do more than 5 laps on Le Mans in LMPs with racing mediums, then the tires need to be fixed.

This was done on purpose. It's not a bug or a mistake that needs to be fixed.

 

[McClarenDesign]

It's all down to physics. Whether in real life or the game, it's down to physics. If you're having trouble with a compound, it's likely you don't fully grasp how the tires work. Nothing but practice will help.

There's been tons of discussions on whether or not the tires feel real, and the only right answer is your personal opinion, because in the end it all boils down to how whatever compound deals with its given conditions. Right or wrong doesn't change the gravity of the moment. Arguing over realism won't win a race.

And that's all I care about as a driver. Does it work? Will it make me faster? Will it help me win?

The rest is semantics.

 

[iamjajo]

With a proper set up you can gain significant advantage in races with tire wear. I like the tire wear the way it is now.

 

[Vegard]

@ OP:
Do you think your setup is a match for the Audi/Peugeot race engineers'?
Do you think your driving style is a match for a works driver?

Have you ever seen a NASCAR blow a tyre after spinning @ 170 mph?
Tell him about quadruple stinting at La Sarthe.

The fact of the matter is: Most of the people complaining about extreme tyre wear can double the lifetime of their tyres by improving their setup and driving style.

The default setup of most race cars in GT5 are not very good at all.
Do some testing or look for some good tunes.

Drive smoothly.

V

 

[yanaran]

Vegard, no amount of tuning or smoothness is going to make the tires last more than one fuel tank around la Sarthe at race pace (<3'35 with a stock car). If you think so then feel free to give it a go and let us know how it went.

 

[snowgt]

The only solution that I can think of would be to maybe add in an "Endurance" tire that can be used in races of say 75 laps or more?

I would like to see something like that, too. A "Racing Super-Hard" or "Racing Endurance" tire, which will enable you to run your fuel-tank dry, would open up great opportunities for tactical endurance racing. I would say that translates to something like 45-75 minutes of racing, depending on track, car and other factors.

I think the trick is to make multiple racing compounds approximately equally fast over multiple hour racing when you factor in pitstops as well.

That means, if you lose 30 seconds for an additional pitstop, because you're using tires that wear twice as fast, you should be able to run faster by 15 seconds over the whole length of your stint. (Bear in mind you have 2 of those stints to make up the 30 seconds). That means that an endurance tire that lasts twice as long as the RH probably should only be slower by a small amount and offer pretty similar driving to an RH tire.

 

[Morgoth_666]

PD is clearly determined to make the softer tires faster overall, so making a longer lasting tire would just mean they'd make it slower in the long run. At best we might be able to get a super hard race tire that is faster than some sports tires, but given GT5's history I doubt they would be interested in that.

It would be interesting to see how the various compounds would compare if fuelling had to wait until the tires were done or if fuelling was significantly faster than it is now.

 

[grog]

For you the solution is really easy, since you don't seem like a hardcore racer (then this shouldn't bother you) simply turn off the tire wear.

As others have said this is all based on personal opinion, and I personally have no problems with the current tire model (when it comes to wear).

 

[GeeBaby]

As someone said before, everyone is on a level playing field. Setup and driving style will preserve your tires. There is no problem with the tires in GT5, there is more a problem with the drivers.

 

[JLawrence]

I agree with that. I mean for peer to peer racing its cool, but for running the endurance races its a pain in the rear if you're trying to run on a level field with the other cars.

 

[snowgt]

PD is clearly determined to make the softer tires faster overall, so making a longer lasting tire would just mean they'd make it slower in the long run. At best we might be able to get a super hard race tire that is faster than some sports tires, but given GT5's history I doubt they would be interested in that.

It would be interesting to see how the various compounds would compare if fuelling had to wait until the tires were done or if fuelling was significantly faster than it is now.

I think the time refuelling takes is appropriate for endurance racing right now. Filling it up takes about a minute, and if you only change tires, it's about 10 seconds.

If you make refuelling faster, you take the element of tactics away where you have to decide, if you want to refuel or only need tires. There's no reported effect of fuel-weight in GT5 that I know of, so, if the length of the pitstop is roughly the same, you would just fill it up every time.

There's no car-class other than single-seater racing where refuelling is faster, so they should not tamper with this.

It would just move the advantage to softer tires to make pitstops faster.

 

[Famine]

There's no reported effect of fuel-weight in GT5 that I know of

Only anecdotally.

Incidentally, refuelling takes 0.7s per fuel unit (probably litres, given the equivalence). This means you generally get 15 fuel units of free refuelling time while the tyres are done at most tracks - Tsukuba being a colossal exception as tyre changes are almost instant.

 

[Snakebitten]

I can't believe some are arguing for PD's implementation on tire wear lol. It's just as laughable as the ridiculous driver endurance and their skill deterioration programing. Nothing about any of those is close to reality. It's pathetic IMHO. What is wrong with them giving actual real life ability to the tires, driver endurance etc.

This is constructive and logical critique. These are a few of the areas PD has dropped the ball big time. I don't get how some can defend the indefensible. How can anyone be ok with "The Real Driving Simulator" not simulating real tire wear and driver endurance etc. it's really a simple fix for them that would add so much more realism and enjoyment especially to the Le Mans Enduro.

 

[Tornado]

This was done on purpose. It's not a bug or a mistake that needs to be fixed.

Something being done on purpose does not preclude it being something that needs to be fixed. On the other hand:

The tires don't last, it doesn't matter what compound you're using. They don't last, if racing hards give you only half a lap over with mediums there's no point in using the hards to get an advantage over the other racer, this is what I've witnessed. Another issue I've noticed is how the tires heat up. From what I've seen it seems they heat up within a few turns, it should at least take a few laps. When trying to qualify on racing tires you can't put in consistent laps, I can only put in about 2 good laps on Suzuka with racing mediums in a GT500, before I have to pit on lap 5 because my tires are at half.

While I agree the tire wear in the game is quite a bit too fast, nor can I remotely understand how people can seriously go so far as to say that "there is no problem with the tires in GT5," it sounds a lot to me like you abuse the hell out of your tires when you drive based on this post.

 

[Nismo34]

Nothing wrong with the tyres. Super grip = Super wear. It also depends on the car and how you drive. Me and a couple mates in a racing series had a race the other week, I did the race in 2 stops, the other guy did it in 1, and we were in the same cars (Different tune of course). He didnt push until right towards the end of the stint and the end of the race where as I pushed right from the beginning, torturing the tyres. It also depends on the power of the car.

Higher horsepower means your putting more strain on the tyres thus more heat and more wear. Speed and track is also a variable. Fuji GT, having long sweeping high speed corners, chews tyres like there's no tomorrow.

Le Sarthe, having heavy braking points, rough surface and running an LMP all result in increased tyre wear. Try braking earlier and not as hard as well as easing on the throttle out of the corners. That may help your "bug".

 

[OK8]

I don't have a big problem with the tyres, but I think PD failed at what they initially set out to do when they shortened the life of the softs. There is still no tyre strategy if tyre choice is free, soft is always faster even if you have to pit every other lap. I wish they would've made the tyres equal in the way that harder compounds would last longer enough to cancel the speed difference, but they didn't.

 

[Famine]

lol ... laughable ... ridiculous ... pathetic

This is constructive and logical critique.

No it isn't.

Read up to what JLawrence and snowgt have posted. That is constructive and logical.