So why aren't the tires fixed?

[yanaran]

Watch the AI some time.

Start a 24 hour race and pull up. Count the laps as the AI go past. One of them (can't remember which) does a 16 lap stint.

Show me an AI that runs even 3'30 in a stock 908 and I will watch, until then stop being silly.

And no, the AI doesn't do that in the 24h, they didn't even do that before the tire wear patch. I counted all the laps of cars when I did that race way back when.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Le Mans 1999.

Toyota GT one. 45 minutes per stint, fuel limited, tyres changed every other stop. 90 minutes of tyre life. Can GT5 do this? Not in my experience.

BMW V12. 55 minutes per stint, fuel limited, tyres changed every other stop. 110 minute of tyre life. Can GT5 do this? Not in my experience.

 

[Famine]

TT - that's because GT5's tyres aren't real. Once again, they have no reference to real life.

Show me an AI that runs even 3'30 in a stock 908 and I will watch, until then stop being silly.

And no, the AI doesn't do that in the 24h, they didn't even do that before the tire wear patch. I counted all the laps of cars when I did that race way back when.

Then you miscounted.

I didn't say tyre preservation was "easy". I said it was possible. It takes a certain kind of skill to run tyres long.


Oh, incidentally, stop giving orders on this site. Converse like an adult and address people like adults.

 

[Ven0m]

I'm not talking about online lobbies - but then why should they be restricted in any way other than the way the "hosts" want them to be - but all races.

Go to the 24hr Le Mans race in A-Spec. Have a look what the car restrictions are. It's "none". With the generotyres in place either you have to come up with an individual tyre wear model for each car anyone could enter (above and beyond that of power + weight + speed + slip + distance + surface friction coefficient) - which is all of them - or you get what you have now.

If you decide that different series have different tyre wear, you get a situation where you can run a set car in a set series (say... NASCAR) on set tyres and get a set wear rate but then enter the same car on the same tyres in a different series (say... Le Mans) that the car is also eligible for but get completely different tyre wear even at the same track. Why? "X" tyre on "X" car should wear at "X" rate depending on the slip, speed, distance and friction variables - it's simply not acceptable to have a car circulating a dry La Sarthe at the same average lap speeds and get completely different wear rates because the A-Spec event has a different name...

Then limit the car types. No more X1 in lemans sounds good to me. Just saying man, I'm not trying to make you mad, but I just think its not that hard. Just limit settings and car types and mission accomplished.

 

[yanaran]

TT - that's because GT5's tyres aren't real. Once again, they have no reference to real life.



Then you miscounted.

I didn't say tyre preservation was "easy". I said it was possible. It takes a certain kind of skill to run tyres long.


Oh, incidentally, stop giving orders on this site. Converse like an adult.

I'm not giving orders, you made a claim and told me to go check it out. There are no AIs in the game running realistic LMP tyre stints at race pace so if you've found some secret race where they do then it's up to YOU to show us, not the other way around.

Here are the laps the cars ran before the tyre wear patch, they now run less.
C60hybride - 9
Audi R8 '01 & '05, Audi R10, Courage C60, CLK-LM and R390 - 10
Bentley, V12 LMR, TSO20 - 11

 

[Famine]

Then limit the car types. No more X1 in lemans sounds good to me. Just saying man, I'm not trying to make you mad, but I just think its not that hard. Just limit settings and car types and mission accomplished.

You also need no more variety in LM24. The problem the X1 (which wasn't mentioned). Why should a Z06 RM change its tyre wear on the same track at the same pace because the A-Spec series name is different? Or a TS020 GT-One? Or a Viper GTS-R? Or a McLaren SLR? Or any car?

I'm not giving orders

This contains two:

Show me an AI that runs even 3'30 in a stock 908 and I will watch, until then stop being silly.

Of course since the AI don't run a Peugeot 908 in the A-Spec LM24 your demand is impossible.

But you know this, since you checked out all the AI in the race before you did it.

 

[Ven0m]

You also need no more variety in LM24. The problem the X1 (which wasn't mentioned). Why should a Z06 RM change its tyre wear on the same track at the same pace because the A-Spec series name is different? Or a TS020 GT-One? Or a Viper GTS-R? Or a McLaren SLR? Or any car?

Because that's the series they are running in. I really don't see what the fuss is about.

 

[yanaran]

Famine, Of course I know that, but you were replying to my post where I was providing real life comparisons to the 908 with "watch the AI" - hence "stop being silly".

Oh, and since you don't seem to be big on backing up your own words I checked the current laps for you (since it didn't take very long): The C60H pit after 4 laps (14.5 minutes), the R8 pulled in the next lap.

But I guess that's just me not "being an adult" like you and ignoring the actual points people make?

 

[Famine]

Because that's the series they are running in. I really don't see what the fuss is about.

That doesn't make any sense. People should expect a car that can last 8 laps around La Sarthe to last 8 laps around La Sarthe on the same tyres, not vary because someone thinks they should go shorter in one series and longer in another.

Famine, Of course I know that

So why are you demanding evidence that cannot possibly be provided?

Oh, and since you don't seem to be big on backing up your own words

You're out of polite warnings now.

Discuss the points, not the people making them. Do not address another member in this fashion again.

 

[yanaran]

Then why aren't you responding to my post instead of threatening me? I did watch the AI and they did 4-5 laps. This was your claim not mine. And again I wasn't demanding evidence, I was replying to how silly your response was. I can't watch the AI run a 908 for 12 laps like in real life because the AI doesn't run the 908.

 

[Famine]

And again I wasn't demanding evidence, I was replying to how silly your response was. I can't watch the AI run a 908 for 12 laps like in real life because the AI doesn't run the 908.

No you weren't:

Why do you (not just you Famine) keep saying that? It's not true. The '10 908 did a 3'19 best in the race, which I believe is still a (race) lap record. I don't know what they did for averages but as I said before in 2011 they did 3'25s-3'33s through all 4 stints. Please show me even one stint (12 laps) at that speed if you think it's so easy.

Watch the AI some time.

Start a 24 hour race and pull up. Count the laps as the AI go past. One of them (can't remember which) does a 16 lap stint - albeit in the wet.

Show me an AI that runs even 3'30 in a stock 908 and I will watch, until then stop being silly.

You ordered me to show you an AI running 12 laps at 3'23-3'33. I told you to simply watch the AI. You then ordered me to show you an AI running a 3'30 in a stock 908.

Your first demand can be settled by watching. Your second cannot because it cannot be done (though you could get a Bob to do it - ignoring the questions Toronado brought up about exactly what constitutes a "stock" LM car in GT5 compared to reality).

Then why aren't you responding to my post instead of threatening me?

No threats were issued. I will respond to your points as a member when you act like a member. If you're going to act in a manner unbecoming of a member I will respond to your manner as a member of staff.

Incidentally, here's me not backing up my words right now:

Which is not me not doing exactly what I said not on a not v2.02 machine.

Of course I keep on having to pause it to post as a member of staff rather than as a member.

 

[yanaran]

No you weren't:



You ordered me to show you an AI running 12 laps at 3'23-3'33. I told you to simply watch the AI. You then ordered me to show you an AI running a 3'30 in a stock 908.

I was never talking about AI, you brought that up. I was talking about real players.

I can't quite make out what you've written in the pic but if it's lap times etc. then good, I take back what I said about not backing your words. I just think you could've done that before telling me I can't count.

 

[Famine]

I was never talking about AI, you brought that up. I was talking about real players.

Oh right. Well, I did 10 lap stints in the wet on v2.04 when I did the race (TS020 GT-One), but 12s were doable if I'd had enough fuel. The AI Pescarolo C60 Peugeot (I think) did 14s and something did 16s - the Bentley did elevens, annoyingly.

A player who can preserve his tyres - I suggest daan - could easily run 10s in the dry an LMP car at Le Mans if the fuel allowed him to - this is a problem GT5 has with the 100 fuelin tank. Tyre preservation is a unique skill and few people have it. Though I wouldn't suggest which car - as Toronado pointed out, just about nothing about the LMPs in GT5 is accurate, statistically.

I can't quite make out what you've written in the pic but if it's lap times etc. then good, I take back what I said about not backing your words. I just think you could've done that before telling me I can't count.

I didn't say you can't count, I said you had miscounted. I miscount things a lot - it took me five attempts to count all the cars in all the GT series to date before I got the same number twice - but I still have enough degrees in sciences that suggest I can actually count.

This is the difference between playing the ball (you have miscounted, you have not backed up those words, that is a silly statement) and playing the man (you cannot count, you do not back up your words, you are being silly).

I just wish I could locate the sheet of testing for wet and dry for all 14 different opponents I did to tell you which one did 16 laps. Other than the Vipers, obviously.

 

[Samus]

But that's in the wet and pretty irrelevant to the point.

 

[Famine]

But that's in the wet and pretty irrelevant to the point.

To the point of RH longevity, yes. That wasn't why I mentioned it - in the wet the AI pit not for tyres but for fuel and in GT5 you cannot opt to keep the tyres.

This is one of the big problems - to run a 12+ lap stint at full, real life racing speeds would require a car capable of doing 12 full, real life racing speed laps on 100 fuelins (probably litres) - 8.3 litres/lap, 0.98 litres per mile, 4.63 miles per gallon. The Bentley Speed Eight ran Le Mans in 2003 at 6mpg (and had a 90 litre tank) but in GT5 it can't make it. The diesels (R10, 908) should go better but don't.

If you turn off fuel use you turn off tyre wear, so you can't just go for a 12 lap run. That's why I wish I could remember which one went 16 laps in the wet so we have a better chance of getting the fuel to last for 12 in the dry... Perhaps if the cars were brought closer to real life spec with engine tuning - the Bentley had about 600hp, not the 761hp a 03 car comes with - we might odds both the fuel economy and tyre use. Though they'll still be overtorqued.


Also, daan hates LMP cars, so maybe scrub that idea. Pity because he can get tyres to last 20% longer than anyone I know.

 

[Tired Tyres]

When I ran my Bobs in the B-spec Nurburgring 24 hours in a X2010, rain tyres didn't wear at all. The pitstops were fuel limited only.

Once it stopped raining, Hard Race tyres did wear. I can't remember how many laps though.

That was two patches ago I think.

Edit.

I've just done a quick B-spec Le Mans 24 stint with a totally stock 908. After 3 laps, level 27 A. Wallace, had used up 25% fuel and about a third of his rear hard race tyres.

After 6 laps he was down to 50% fuel indicating an 11 lap fuel stint to avoid the possibility of running out of fuel but his tyres only had 30%, if that, left in them.

At all times he was at 50% aggression, unless close proximity to other AI made him hotter, and at no time could he get out of the 3:40s time wise.

He went on to do a 7th lap and was sliding all over the place.

If I had been driving I'd have been in the pits after 5 laps at the most.

@ Famine. Group C cars used to do 16 laps at Le Mans before the chicanes were put on the straight. Perhaps that's the type of car you got to last 16 laps?

 

[Famine]

What's the fuel use and lap time like with the car engine limited to 520hp like the real car?

 

[Tired Tyres]

First lap at 520 BHP is 4:01:020. He's struggling to keep up with a A BMW McLaren F1!

520BHP is a 3.7 litre rule? That was introduced last year. In '10 5.5 Litre was the rule.

 

[Samus]

Yeah 2010 car had ~720HP, not 520HP.

 

[Famine]

I was looking at the 2011 908, not the 2010 908 HDi FAP. D'oh!

730hp and 890lbft on 930kg for the FAP; GT5 has 679hp and 853lbft on 930kg for a 03 car. Close enough.

 

[Tired Tyres]

At 520 BHP he's still used 25% fuel after 3 laps but only 25% tyre as well. A bit better but much slower!

 

[Famine]

Have you got a 2004 Pescarolo you can try him with? I've got a spare level 40 Bob I can give a run to later if not.

 

[Samus]

Road Economy (Grip 1/2, Wear 10): Bridgestone Ecopia, Michelin Energy/X
Road Touring (Grip 2/3, Wear 9/10): Bridgestone A001, Pirelli Cinturato P6
Road Performance (Grip 3/4, Wear 8/9): Bridgestone Potenza RE970, Michelin Pilot Exalto, Pirelli P Zero
Track Sports (Grip 4/5, Wear 7/8): Bridgestone Potenza S04, Michelin Pilot Sport 3, Pirelli P Zero Nero
Track Semi (Grip 5/6, Wear 6/7): Bridgestone Potenza RE11, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, Pirelli P Zero Corsa
ST Race Hard (Grip 6.5, Wear 8): Bridgestone Potenza, Michelin Pilot, Pirelli P Zero branded slicks
ST Race Soft (Grip 7, Wear 7): Bridgestone Potenza, Michelin Pilot, Pirelli P Zero branded slicks
GT Race Hard (Grip 7.5, Wear 7): Bridgestone Potenza, Michelin Pilot, Pirelli P Zero branded slicks
GT Race Soft (Grip 8, Wear 6): Bridgestone Potenza, Michelin Pilot, Pirelli P Zero branded slicks
LM Race Hard (Grip 8.5, Wear 6): Bridgestone Potenza, Michelin Pilot, Pirelli P Zero branded slicks
LM Race Soft (Grip 9, Wear 5): Bridgestone Potenza, Michelin Pilot, Pirelli P Zero branded slicks
F1 Hard (Grip 9.5, Wear 3): Bridgestone F1, Michelin F1, Pirelli F1
F1 Soft (Grip 10, Wear 1): Bridgestone F1, Michelin F1, Pirelli F1

Plus knobbly rally tyres and inter/rain* compounds.

Didn't see this post originally but spotted it looking back for another one, I think this is just about perfect for tyres in GT, although to make it easier for PD they can keep it to one manufacturer per type to start with. I totally love the options though, bang on.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Have you got a 2004 Pescarolo you can try him with? I've got a spare level 40 Bob I can give a run to later if not.

No. 17 Courage Judd GV5 '04? Yes.

The 6 lap run with a 520 BHP 908 had slightly less than 50% tyre left but significantly more that 50% fuel left. 12 laps are definitely possible. It's not fast though. 3:53.030 fastest lap.

 

[Famine]

No. 17 Courage Judd GV5 '04? Yes.

Yep.

Are you trying them on current version or an older one?

The 6 lap run with a 520 BHP 908 had slightly less than 50% tyre left but significantly more that 50% fuel left. 12 laps are definitely possible. It's not fast though. 3:53.030 fastest lap.

Yeah, the stats were goosed - should be 720ish, not 520. My own fault for ignoring a good fap. Or Peugeot's for not changing the number like Audi.

Edit: In 2.02 the longest run for the first grid - ignoring the Vipers - was the McLaren F1 GTR on 8 laps. That grid misses both Audi R8s ('01, '05) and the '04 Pescarolo, so it's one of those three.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Current? There is a No. 17 C60 in the race which is mostly green. My No. 17 is blue and white. Is that what you mean?

Correction. You mean Le Mans yes? Current version.

 

[Famine]

Current? There is a No. 17 C60 in the race which is mostly green. My No. 17 is blue and white. Is that what you mean?

Game version. v2.06 changed some aspects of tyre wear. I ran my endurance and original checks on v2.04 but the second console I use and have been checking on today is on v2.02.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Latest version. V2.06.

No comparison possible. I couldn't calm him down. Bob likes this car a lot and gets stuck in. 25% fuel and 33% tyre used after 3 laps. On the upside I think a good team of Bobs could win this 24 hour race with this car stock.

 

[Famine]

I would ask you to try the R8, but I suspect you'll see similar results to the Bentley.

So we're reckoning that, on v2.06, 7/8 laps is the maximum AI stint on RH in the dry?

 

[Tired Tyres]

Bob put the pit in icon on as soon as he started lap 5.

Pitted at the end of lap 6 with not more than 25% tyre left. I could put 52 litres in the tank though.

Earlier with a stock, full horsepower 908, Bob did a 7th lap but was all over the place.

With a tyre preserving setup 8 laps should be possible.

Edit. Unattended minimum aggression Bob did 8 laps using 47 litres of fuel and having an 8th of tyre left at best. No. 17 Courage Judd.