So... you all ready for the draft?

[MIE1992]

For all the faults in the Israeli government, and especially their current PM, I sort of wonder if their idea of civil service would be a good idea for here in the US. Not necessarily joining the military - though that could be an option if one elects - but perhaps other federal agencies like the National Park Service.

 

[TexRex]

For all the faults in the Israeli government, and especially their current PM, I sort of wonder if their idea of civil service would be a good idea for here in the US. Not necessarily joining the military - though that could be an option if one elects - but perhaps other federal agencies like the National Park Service.

No. Voluntaryism is good, actually. No individual has any duty to any collective (as a nation), but to other individuals, and that duty is only to not violate rights.

 

[Danoff]

I never once mentioned that military servitude or service, should be intrinsic to someone’s manhood. What I actually recall saying is that one’s significance into their respective man/womanhood’s is in the eye of the beholder…or something to that degree.

This you?

And call me old-fashioned, but much like one getting their Driver’s license at 16, a young woman having her first period, filling out a draft card is a right of passage for young men.

It's as intrinsic to manhood as a girl getting her period is to womanhood in your eyes.

This kind of thing really makes discussions difficult. I'm NOT accusing you of consciously lying about this. I'm an optimist, and I like to assume the best about people. I think this was probably an "honest mistake". But it also is not conducive to active discussion. When you drop in to make comments only to disavow them later, it feels like a waste of everyone's time.

The way I see it, the world needs poets, artists and Betas as much as it needs Navy Seals. Both (and everything in between) are needed for a balanced society.

Betas... oh boy. There's a red pill thread, maybe we need to unpack that nonsense before we can make headway here.

And in regards to war, battle, athleticism, strength, and everything else that goes with competitive sports or physical adversity, a man will out perform a woman 9 times out of 10. That’s who we need protecting this country, and our society. Alpha Men, and Alpha women (whom are willing to throw their hat in the ring)

Seems a bit WWII and somewhat out of touch with the drone-flying space-craft-pointing, cyber-security military of today.

What we have today is a volunteer military (I know some would argue with volunteer) that is better equipped and higher tech than any other military on the planet. The idea that we just need young men to go hold guns (badly) someplace in order to keep ourselves safe is so far in the rear-view mirror that it's very difficult to see. Vietnam, for example, is not a pro-draft argument.

I also do truly believe that a person doesn’t realize their full potential, unless their forced, or their life is in danger (and that’s where Darwinism comes into play)

Sweet mother! So not only is a draft intrinsic to manhood (which I know you backed off from, but you did say), it's good for you because you need to be in a life-threatening situation to live up to your potential? What kind of potential? Technical prowess? No. Caretaking? No. Teaching? No. Artistic? No. What kind of potential are we talking about? Oh right... it's moving your muscles again. You need to be shot at to see how fast you can move.

Holy hell. Yea that's probably true that I would never move my muscles as fast as if someone was shooting at me and I had the adrenaline of my life being in grave danger pumping through my veins. Why on earth do I need to know what my muscles can do on that much adrenaline? Why is this important?

But hey, if their was a necessity to activate a draft for a war; Men are much better suited for that job, and women are much better suited in Western culture to hold down the fort at home

If it's necessary to get more people for war, my view is that you should be able to get them to sign up voluntarily, or you don't have a war worth fighting.

For all the faults in the Israeli government, and especially their current PM, I sort of wonder if their idea of civil service would be a good idea for here in the US. Not necessarily joining the military - though that could be an option if one elects - but perhaps other federal agencies like the National Park Service.

Pressing people into jobs is the opposite of rights, and the opposite of American ideals. I do think that pressing people into service strengthens their connection to some kind of nationalism, but it's massively hypocritical for the US to do it.

It's somewhat amazing to me that the people I'd see supporting this idea (or the Israeli idea) would be the same people who complain about taxes. You don't have a right to my tax dollars but you do have a right to order me around and tell me what to do?

Perhaps civil service jobs should be recruiting heavily at universities and high schools instead.

 

[Keef]

But admittedly, maybe it was just a pivotal point in my life and I’m looking at it with my own rose-colored glasses, because that’s when the world became real to me, as I turned 18 and had to fill out my draft card two days after 9/11. I remember being scared to death at the time.

I'm no therapist by any means but you're admitting to one single specific event having been so traumatizing that you not only remember it vividly but it has molded your world view in a way that effects other people. I think that's why you're getting grilled and are having a hard time justifying this, because it's irrational. It's in you, but it doesn't make sense. Over 20 years on and you still haven't made it make sense.

I've got a few of those moments myself and although they have molded the way I conduct myself, I'm not sure they've lead me to want to control others in any meaningful way.

@MIE1992 Israel is a highly homogenous society in terms of culture and belief systems. The entire country is arguably closer to a family than to the makeup of the US, and it is very easy for the government to take those cultural norms and set them into law. In Israel, mandatory service is not done to teach the kids some responsibility, it is done for survival, and most people believe in their core that it is an honor to do so. They want to, and they're effective. The vast majority of Americans don't want to because we strongly believe it's a ridiculous idea and would all be very ineffective, just like an employee who hates their job. This also allows all those people to go specialize in their interests and find their place in the market. In my experience, civil volunteer service is actually growing in American culture and becoming more normal for more people. You could argue that's because of the market's failures but that machine is too big to stop so volunteerism is growing to pick up the slack.

 

[TexRex]

Wait..."right of passage"?

 

[Joey D]

For all the faults in the Israeli government, and especially their current PM, I sort of wonder if their idea of civil service would be a good idea for here in the US. Not necessarily joining the military - though that could be an option if one elects - but perhaps other federal agencies like the National Park Service.

There are too many people in the US for that to work, and there simply aren't enough civil service jobs to go around. The 18-22 age group has about 25 million people. The military has around 2.5 million people in it, with another 3 million in federal government jobs and many of those jobs require you to know what you're doing.

Having more options for people to sign up for service to their country wouldn't be the worst thing, especially if it came with something like the GI Bill but for non-military roles.

 

[Scaff]

Or you can expand on your own personal experience on why my assumptions are false.

I would much rather use actual verifiable evidence.

If we’re splitting hairs, I’ll give you that my numbers are just an educated-hypothetical guess.

That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

But to be frank, I’m not interested in “articles” that supposedly debunk real life first-hand experience that I’ve lived

You're not interested in the science behind it? You seem to not be aware that the scientist behind the research that people base the entire Alpha/Beta/Etc. nonsense on has said it's rubbish.