Sobering Thoughts About "The Definitive Racing Simulator"

[Leadfoot53]

I was playing Forza 3 today when I noticed some things that REALLY detracted from the realism of the game and just seemed like T10 took the day off on these things:

1. I noticed that the weight reduction is not really shown visually. The rear seat removal is NONEXISTANT. Also in a lot of cars the passenger seats stay.
2. The brake disk textures are terrible, if they are even there. For example, I was driving the 2006(?) Civic SI and the brake disk and caliper is a flat grey. The caliper does not even look like it is a separate part; it seems "welded" to the disk. Even on the Maserati MC12, it is very poor; the only difference is that the "caliper" is black with the word "Maserati" on it.
3. The interior textures are terrible. I decided to do a car that I own and drive on a regular basis: 1971 Datsun 510. That car interior in the game would be rated a C- by my standards. The parts are there, but they are modeled wrong. My car has a tach, but my dad has a 510 w/o the tach, so I know what the interior looks like bone stock. The side mirrors and the center mirror is wrong also.

Some things I just thought of about playing Forza

 

[JDMLOVER]

Well Leadfoot, I'm sure Forza 3 is a great game, but at the end of the day(for me at least) Turn 10 rushed the release of this game, just like they did Forza 2, though I also enjoyed that game a lot. I've never played Forza 3 except for the demo, but even then that's pretty good indication of what the game is.

I've moved on from Forza now. It's great series, but after playing GT5p, I just feel like GT5 won't feel like a game with an identity limited to its name, but rather, it will feel like a driving game with endless possibilities. Forza just seems like Forza after 3 games, so I'm not surprised that these cars which you speak of are missing details.

 

[Leadfoot53]

Yeah I know what you mean. I am more of a fan of the GT series, but I got Forza to cope with the wait. It is a real fun game, but these kind of flaws keep it from being an incredible game. One thing that frusterates me is how they handle the DLC:

A. They made arguably one of the most popular new cars in the world, the Nissan GTR, PAID DLC! They even GIVE you it in the game but you can't drive until you pay the cold, hard cash for it! They are a bigger tease than half of the girls in my local high schools!
B. They show all of the DLC cars in the car selection screen, even the IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN NOW "VIP Cars"! Those cars include the Aston Martin DBS, the Corvette ZR-1, Ferrari F430 Scuderia, and the Porsche 911 GT3RS. Those cars are very popular, but T10 decided to make those cars cost TWENTY DOLLARS more! I don't see their logic in that! They have been getting rants all over the place about it.

 

[Spencer]

Not sure this really has any affect on its ability to be a pretty good race game in terms of physics.

I suggest you stay over in the GT forums if you plan on detracting from the good stuff that's happening in this forum while GT fans wait for GT5.

 

[pay2021]

Yeah I know what you mean. I am more of a fan of the GT series, but I got Forza to cope with the wait. It is a real fun game, but these kind of flaws keep it from being an incredible game. One thing that frusterates me is how they handle the DLC:

A. They made arguably one of the most popular new cars in the world, the Nissan GTR, PAID DLC! They even GIVE you it in the game but you can't drive until you pay the cold, hard cash for it! They are a bigger tease than half of the girls in my local high schools!
B. They show all of the DLC cars in the car selection screen, even the IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN NOW "VIP Cars"! Those cars include the Aston Martin DBS, the Corvette ZR-1, Ferrari F430 Scuderia, and the Porsche 911 GT3RS. Those cars are very popular, but T10 decided to make those cars cost TWENTY DOLLARS more! I don't see their logic in that! They have been getting rants all over the place about it.

I agree with you about the GTR, but for the others, the VIP cars, they dont be popular to me, instead i prefer to pay the dlc, like the last car pack, or the pack that have the Ferrari Italia, or the Nurburgring GP.

And yes, the game has lack of some details, but, you know, its released, and give me so much fun.

Sorry my english.

 

[Raitziger]

Those all small things comapared to unrealistc grip on standard tires and steering aid that can not be turned off.

 

[Joey D]

Isn't Forza bashing played out yet?

The game was fine and if graphical things are the only thing you can fault then it can't be that bad of a game for you. When did the whole video gaming world get so hung up on the way games look? Forza's graphic are no where near other racing sims but the physics are good, the car selection is pretty diverse, and the customisation options are top notch.

Forza isn't perfect, but it's entertaining and at least it has come out in a timely fashion, added new things along the way and continues to expand it's car list though cool promotions like the Jalopnik-Forza joint venture. The biggest faults I see with the game is the lack of variety in the races, the awful rim/wheel selection, the slow load times, and the in-game music.

As for the DLC, welcome to modern video gaming where every company nickels and dimes their customers to death. Is it fair? No, but it's what the gaming world is coming to. You either have to just deal with it or cease playing games.

 

[Metfanant]

i just hope PD doesn't make GLARING mistakes like having Viper GTS-R's with 6.2L V8's instead of 8.0L V10's and weighing ~400lbs more than they should....

WOOPS!

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Those all small things comapared to unrealistc grip on standard tires and steering aid that can not be turned off.

I honestly don't noticed the steering aid, but what I noticed is that the 'physics' get very strange once you get to play online... in offline mode I can have great battles with the A.I. over many laps, but online it's one bump and off you go (or the opponent lol). Like everything is weightless...

 

[PAPPACLART]

How do the laptimes of standard Forza 3 cars with standard road tyres stack up with real life?

It seems that even GT5P on S2's were just too fast. I am not sure on N1/N2/N3s but certainly way too fast on S2's.

I hope in GT5 they get this right!

Back to Forza. I was very close to buying a 360 and Forza during Christmas as my desperation for GT hit a peak then, but I played the demo on a friends 360 and just could not live with the arcade handling of the cars. (IMO) after reading lots of feedback from people about Forza I have been put off, but when I watch Youtube vids of the game it makes me want to buy it. If GT5 was here I would never have this urge to cheat on my beloved GT5! lol

I am sure it is a good game in it's own right, I may even pick it up if I can find a cheap 2nd hand 360... maybe....

 

[tfujiwara]

Forza 3 is meh... it didnt improve as much to be worth $60 (its worth more like $30)
Its only worth $60 if you havent played Forza 2.
Its good. But I might sell my 360 for GT5.
Having a PS2 with GT4 and a 360 with FM2. I had much more hours of gameplay with GT4. The cars, driving test, Licences, off-road, buying cheap used cars. So much better in a Racing game. The peace full music beautiful. I just want it. Its my Opinion. I do love Forza though.

 

[Chagen46]

If GT5 was here I would never have this urge to cheat on my beloved GT5! lol

Oh, god, get a life you worthless fanboy.

This Forza bashing is getting ridiculous. Goes to show how people can't accept that a competitor to their beloved game might actually show up.

Go get laid.

 

[YSSMAN]

The interior textures are terrible. I decided to do a car that I own and drive on a regular basis: 1971 Datsun 510. That car interior in the game would be rated a C- by my standards. The parts are there, but they are modeled wrong. My car has a tach, but my dad has a 510 w/o the tach, so I know what the interior looks like bone stock. The side mirrors and the center mirror is wrong also.

Interesting. I own an ST204 Celica like what is in the game and it is nearly identical to what I have. Hell, my brother has a '91 Pontiac Firebird, and it is awfully damn close to what is in the game as well. The same can be said of the first generation (1968) Camaro that we have, which also appears in the game. Or my friend Ben's MKIV Golf. No, the details aren't quite as overdone as they are in GT5... But when you want a game out, with as many cars as possible, some (small) sacrifices are going to be made. Which leads me to this...

Well Leadfoot, I'm sure Forza 3 is a great game, but at the end of the day(for me at least) Turn 10 rushed the release of this game, just like they did Forza 2, though I also enjoyed that game a lot. I've never played Forza 3 except for the demo, but even then that's pretty good indication of what the game is.

Just as a point of reference, Forza 3 actually came out. Outside of GT5P, Gran Turismo has not. At the current rate of progress, it probably won't. So if we want to complain about a game that is "rushed," that's fine... But at least its here. With an expanding list of cars and tracks, with cars being chosen by the community of players, and updates addressing many of the early issues with the game. Say what you want of Turn 10 and Forza, they've done a damn good job of listening to their customers and making a game that car people want to play. So, if you'd like to base your opinion off a demo that came out six months ago, that's fine. But don't expect me to take your opinion too seriously.

 

[Terronium-12]

I nominate you for absolute sense.

+1

 

[Gek54]

Those all small things comapared to unrealistc grip on standard tires and steering aid that can not be turned off.

No kidding, I still cant believe they havnt fixed the active steering aid.





Sobering indeed. Simulation killer.

 

[TheBigMan045]

Steering Aid? Havent come across it, though I do feel the game was rushed, mainly in the decal editor with mirrored decals on rear wings, no decals on windscreen banners on certain cars eg Holden V8 Supercars but its no biggie to put this in context T10 has put out 2 games in the space of GT5's development time so kudos to them

 

[R390GT1'97]

Well Leadfoot, I'm sure Forza 3 is a great game, but at the end of the day(for me at least) Turn 10 rushed the release of this game, just like they did Forza 2, though I also enjoyed that game a lot. I've never played Forza 3 except for the demo, but even then that's pretty good indication of what the game is.

I've moved on from Forza now. It's great series, but after playing GT5p, I just feel like GT5 won't feel like a game with an identity limited to its name, but rather, it will feel like a driving game with endless possibilities. Forza just seems like Forza after 3 games, so I'm not surprised that these cars which you speak of are missing details.

It makes you wonder if GT5 will be worth the long wait (no doubt's) because they are certainly taking their time. Also if not mentioned already, no gear changes.

 

[Moglet]

While everyone is waiting for GT5 to come out and have perfect handling and graphics me and my mates are having a BTCC race every Sunday that's massive fun and is always close. Each car can be painted in it's own racing colours and you can tune it how you want to. Sure my Cobalt SS might not have 100% accurate stitching on the seats or an accurately welded rollcage but who really gives a damn when you're flying along at 90mph surrounded by cars going bumper to bumper with you?

At the end of the day, Forza 3 is a game designed to be played for fun. You can sit down with a controller, and muck about with cars. Playing it like this, it's a fantastic game with only a few minor niggles.

However if you spend your days building a cockpit, spending hundreds on steering wheels and then examining each car in the game for minor details that are wrong you won't enjoy it.

But then you probably don't enjoy real life and talking to people either.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yes, we can only criticize GT5 on a Gran Turismo board.

We can't discuss

• Forza 2 and 3's tire grip quirks, or their horrible sounds.
• The issues still with the livery editor and the car models.
• The issues with car model flaws which have carried over from Forza 2!
• The file bogging issues if you have anywhere near 100 pics, decals, liveries, replays...
• The ancient driver views from the 90s.
• The ruin of Forza 2's online system.

And I could go on. It's really funny to have people picking on about GT5's engine notes and how the bots look during shifting, and then these same people giving Forza pass after pass on much more substantial flaws...

And guess what? I'm hoping to have the mental energy after 11 hours at work to stay awake long enough to paint on a car. The batteries are recharging tight now - and that's another thing, M$'s stupid wireless system and how battery hungry it is.

I don't know when I'll take a pic, because it literally takes hours and HOURS to do something which even in GT4 might require less than half an hour to do. Start a race, save the replay, snap some pics, and transfer the images to my PC with a USB drive, post to my online galleries and share with y'all. And not just 18 at a time. And no paying for the privilege of online access.

Forza 3? Perfect! Yeah, right...

 

[McLaren]

And I could go on. It's really funny to have people picking on about GT5's engine notes and how the bots look during shifting, and then these same people giving Forza pass after pass on much more substantial flaws...

How ironic because that's exactly what you & 80% of the GT5 forum does. Bash other games & let GT slide when it starts committing the same issues.

 

[Eric.]

What benefit do you guys get coming here and bitching about a game some of us like despite its flaws here and there anyway? If we cared, we wouldn't be playing it. If you cared as much as you make it look like you do, you wouldn't be playing it either. But you do.

 

[YSSMAN]

But... But... This is the internet! Someone has to be right!

 

[kekke2000]

When I play Forza I do it to set lap times and level up and tune cars and stuff. This game is not made to look best because it simply can't as long as Kaz is around.

 

[Terronium-12]

When I play Forza I do it to set lap times and level up and tune cars and stuff. This game is not made to look best because it simply can't as long as Kaz is around.

Or, because the 360 doesn't have the same specifications as the PS3.

Furthermore, why does everyone keep putting visuals on a pedestal? They're far from being the most (or even vital) important factor in a game. This is why games are so damn short now (I don't know how many times I can say that) because graphics take top priority for some obscene reason.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

How do the laptimes of standard Forza 3 cars with standard road tyres stack up with real life?

It seems that even GT5P on S2's were just too fast. I am not sure on N1/N2/N3s but certainly way too fast on S2's.

I hope in GT5 they get this right!

Back to Forza. I was very close to buying a 360 and Forza during Christmas as my desperation for GT hit a peak then, but I played the demo on a friends 360 and just could not live with the arcade handling of the cars. (IMO) after reading lots of feedback from people about Forza I have been put off, but when I watch Youtube vids of the game it makes me want to buy it. If GT5 was here I would never have this urge to cheat on my beloved GT5! lol

I am sure it is a good game in it's own right, I may even pick it up if I can find a cheap 2nd hand 360... maybe....

Cheat on GT....Were you serious about that?...i mean i love GT and everything...but cheat on GT?

 

[LaBounti]

Or, because the 360 doesn't have the same specifications as the PS3.

Furthermore, why does everyone keep putting visuals on a pedestal? They're far from being the most (or even vital) important factor in a game. This is why games are so damn short now (I don't know how many times I can say that) because graphics take top priority for some obscene reason.

I disagree, Graphics are an important part to a game and its much closer to the "most important factor in a game". Why do we have the current generation of consoles? Pixel shaders, GPU's multicore CPU's FPU's api's "graphic engines" are in place for a reason, better graphics. When a spokes person touts (FM3s lead designer) there game has the highest polygons counts, under carriage modeling and the utter useless tire deforming it seems these visual things were high up on the importance factor because GT4 did not have those things. I know everyone doesnt feel the same about things but lets look at it in a practical sense. We have powerful consoles for a reason, maybe it will help if journalist just stop mentioning graphics whenever they see a new game or reviews them. Its not going to happen.

Early on everyone in the whole world was saying "buy the 360 version because it looks better". But graphics are far from the most important thing.....

 

[Terronium-12]

I disagree, Graphics are an important part to a game and its much closer to the "most important factor in a game". Why do we have the current generation of consoles? Pixel shaders, GPU's multicore CPU's FPU's api's "graphic engines" are in place for a reason, better graphics. When a spokes person touts (FM3s lead designer) there game has the highest polygons counts, under carriage modeling and the utter useless tire deforming it seems these visual things were high up on the importance factor because GT4 did not have those things. I know everyone doesnt feel the same about things but lets look at it in a practical sense. We have powerful consoles for a reason, maybe it will help if journalist just stop mentioning graphics whenever they see a new game or reviews them. Its not going to happen.

Early on everyone in the whole world was saying "buy the 360 version because it looks better". But graphics are far from the most important thing.....

Um, what?

While you explain that, I'll tell you why I consider visuals to be the least important factor in almost any game (racing games being an exception for reasons I can't explain without using the word "car" ) because gameplay should take priority. If a game sucks, graphics aren't going to make it a better experience (I don't know how many times I can say that either), in fact it's going to leave you wondering "Why the hell did they spend so much time with this, when they could have focused on that?" When was the last time you played a game from this generation that took longer than, say, 36 hours without going through the game again for anything that you missed?

I can only name a handful. I can, however, name an entire list of games from the previous generations that took such an amount of time without batting an eyelid. It's sickening that the first criticism to come out of the average gamers (or reviewers for that matter) mouth is "these graphics suck, yo" as if that makes or breaks the game itself. It's come to the point where game consoles are about everything but video games. Why do I need my console to surf the internet, or have Skype? What significance does Gamerscore or PSN Trophies have to the overall experience? You're awarding me for things that I would have done anyway? What happens when you don't get all twenty-five of your trophies - it creates some sort of artificial void. Leaving you to think that you haven't actually completed the game because you don't have a trophy or the appropriate gamerscore for "Jump 25ft in the air while dodging a bullet while kicking someone in the face while doing a counter-maneuver."

I mean, really? That's what it's come to...cheapening the experience to make it seem longer than it really is. I guess I'm just too much of a genuine gamer, and by that I mean expecting the best for what I'm paying and not near-sighted attempts to immerse me into some visual happenstance. I still play PS games because the average longevity for one PS RPG is about several of the games we have now combined.

 

[LaBounti]

Going off topic a bit but.

Firstly I was being sarcastic. But I do understand better now that you explained it. This is more a of a personal thing, I assumed it was in general. But I dont buy any game at full price with little "replay value"(God of war 3). It took me 12 hours or so to beat Deep space. the second took me 8 and a 1/2. But it was fun to play and to get platinum you need to finish at least twice and playing on "impossible" changed the game up. So to achieve plat it took about 23 hours. Also I do not burn though new games like most people, then they complain about how short it was. Buying a game and ripping through in 1-2 sittings is a horrible idea.

I did not buy a 42 in 1080p TV and 3 HDMI cables to enhance my gameplay

On topic the OP is just down right silly. I assumed this was about handling characteristics or tire modeling.

 

[Rykon Zero]

I'll put it simply: I want a game to look good. It does not need good graphics to look good. Many PS1 and PS2 games look good, without good graphics.

 

[Terronium-12]

Going off topic a bit but.

Firstly I was being sarcastic. But I do understand better now that you explained it. This is more a of a personal thing, I assumed it was in general. But I dont buy any game at full price with little "replay value"(God of war 3). It took me 12 hours or so to beat Deep space. the second took me 8 and a 1/2. But it was fun to play and to get platinum you need to finish at least twice and playing on "impossible" changed the game up. So to achieve plat it took about 23 hours. Also I do not burn though new games like most people, then they complain about how short it was. Buying a game and ripping through in 1-2 sittings is a horrible idea.

I did not buy a 42 in 1080p TV and 3 HDMI cables to enhance my gameplay

On topic the OP is just down right silly. I assumed this was about handling characteristics or tire modeling.

Ah. I see where you're coming from now.

About the burning through games deal, it's not really any of our faults, it's mainly left up to the game these days. In exchange for longevity you get jargon-tastic difficulty levels that aren't any more difficult than the previous level. Having your entire life bar depleted in one hit doesn't necessarily make the game harder, it just makes it frustrating.

I remember the good ol' days when Hard was the top difficulty level and you did your best to avoid it, unless you just wanted to get nowhere fast.