Soccer-Mom Showdown: Crowning the Queen of the Mini-Van/MPV Hill

[YSSMAN]

I hate to pull "country" out - doing so at 4am my time is liable to get me stoned, usually, since it's mostly you guys who are on - but it would seem to me that the thread was clearly intended to concentrate on the USDM. The thread starter even posts a short paragraph about the recent history of the US minivan market.

Yes, I think I accidentally deleted the paragraph where I talked about the European market as well, so my apologies there. Quite frankly, I wanted to get the Europeans involved in this one. Given that their mini-van/MPV market never dissapeared as it did in the United States, they would obviously have DOUBLE the expirience most of us have with them, given that they still drive the market forward.

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Back to the discussion:

I'm very interested in the Renault Espace as noted before. The MPV seems to be of the right size for the most ammount of practicality versus economy, but I do find it unfortunate that the Espace (among other vehicles) are not sold in the United States, but I do occasionally wonder if the Espace wouldn't be powerful enough to meet the American demands for big power (however, I belive the Espace has a 240 BHP V6 option, that would meet the US standards).

Do they sell the Kia Sorento and Hyundai Entourage in Europe? Those are great vans here in the US, and I'm sure they would be thought of the same there as well.

 

[daan]

Our Sorento is a 4x4 "SUV" with just the 5 seats. Kia offer us the Sedona which is fairly large and seats 7.

Hyundai's MPV offering is the Trajet

 

[YSSMAN]

Our Sorento is a 4x4 "SUV" with just the 5 seats. Kia offer us the Sedona which is fairly large and seats 7.

Hyundai's MPV offering is the Trajet

...I'm sorry, Sedona. You are right there. These names get mixed up for me quite often. I can't stand how they have so many names that sound exactly the same, so yeah... My bad...

 

[F1GTR]

Espaces are generally quite light (for an MPV) since the body panels are all plastic, which in turn makes it less costly to insure. I think that the current Espace uses metal now, but it feels much roomier than the previous generation.

 

[1X83Z]

But we're talking MPVs too, which the Mazda5 is. (Edmunds has it as a minivan anyway). It's highly unlikely that an Odyssey and a 5 would be on someone's shopping list, as they are completely different sizes and prices. Say someone is looking for "something" (minivan/MPV/people carrier. Call it what you will) to carry 6 people (including driver). They have a budget of $18,000. A Mazda5 would do that job, yes? That person suddenly realises that they can afford $26,000, so therefore an Odyssey becomes available. Should they buy an Odyssey, when the 5 does the job they need it for? Why should someone buy a big minivan/MPV/people carrier if the smaller one does the job?

No - they should buy an SUV!

Do they sell the Kia Sorento and Hyundai Entourage in Europe? Those are great vans here in the US, and I'm sure they would be thought of the same there as well.

As you mentioned, you meant "Sedona." It's not even that the names sound the same - it's that they're all named after similar things, and whenever they redesign a vehicle they rename it so you can't even build up an identity. But I digress.

In the UK, Kia and Hyundai both sell vans a bit smaller than the Mazda5 - Kia's is called the Carens, and Hyundai's is called the Trajet (they're twins). They're quite old at this point and don't sell particularly well. Kia also sells the Sedona, which is slightly on the large sides by their standards - however do note that it's the old version of the Sedona, not the one that was just redesigned for the states. That one, like so many vans before it, is US-only, because of our different tastes. Presumably, Europe will get a new Sedona or a new Trajet/Carens before long.

Hyundai Trajet - slightly longer than the USDM Toyota Corolla

EDIT: when I post pictures, they don't seem to show up, so forget it.

 

[Onikaze]

After looking it over on the website.

I would definitely say the Mazda5.

How many vehicles can you get with a manual, sure to be fun driving character, 6 seats, and 22/27 Mpg from an engine that just begs to have silly modifications done too it?

 

[Famine]

FIAT Multipla?

 

[Master_Yoda]

I'm still with the Quest! It is by far the coolest. I actually kinda want one!

 

[YSSMAN]

FIAT Multipla?

Well thats a funky little van thingamabob. The windows seem HUGE on it, but it looks like a very functional little "thing." I'd probably be more apt to going after the Mazda5 in that segment, but that is a pretty cool thing no less.

I have to admit that when Top Gear was on American television for a short period of time, I became rather interested in the Citroen Berlingo. The functioanlity of it all seemed like such a good idea, and despite it's rather awkward looks, it seemed like a cool "thing" to own. But they are out of production now (or thats what the Wiki says)...

BTW: I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Saturn Relay...

Lol, atleast it is the only Lambada mini-van that GM got even close to "right."

 

[daan]

Fiat chickened out when they redesigned the Multipla. It went from being unusual and quirky

to boring and normal

Love it or hate it before, but at least it was distinctive. Now it's just bland.

EDIT:

Lol, atleast it is the only Lambada mini-van that GM got even close to "right."

A dancing mini van! How did they get it to do the lambada?

 

[Scaff]

I have to admit that when Top Gear was on American television for a short period of time, I became rather interested in the Citroen Berlingo. The functioanlity of it all seemed like such a good idea, and despite it's rather awkward looks, it seemed like a cool "thing" to own. But they are out of production now (or thats what the Wiki says)...

Then go for a Renault Kangoo, just the ticket.

I managed the UK product launch training for the Kangoo (goes off and hides after admiting to that), actually its quite fun to drive (not fast or great handling - just fun), very practical and bloody noisey.

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

Noise would be a problem for the US market, so I don't know how well that would go over. Most mini-vans I've driven or ridden in have been pretty quiet here in the US (Dodge and Chrysler versions not included), and quite frankly are amazingly comfortable to use in a long drive to Chicago or Detroit.

...But, I would like to see more smaller MPV-sized vans come to the US. Practicality is the key there, but they would have to pack in the horsepower to make them big sellers. But hey, diesel may be the best way to go there.

 

[Scaff]

Noise would be a problem for the US market, so I don't know how well that would go over. Most mini-vans I've driven or ridden in have been pretty quiet here in the US (Dodge and Chrysler versions not included), and quite frankly are amazingly comfortable to use in a long drive to Chicago or Detroit.

...But, I would like to see more smaller MPV-sized vans come to the US. Practicality is the key there, but they would have to pack in the horsepower to make them big sellers. But hey, diesel may be the best way to go there.

Sorry I don't mean noise on the outside of the car, they pass drive-by noise tests with ease.

Rather the noise inside the car when you drive it, the Berlingo and the Kangoo are basically big empty metal boxes with little soundproofing (after all they are tarted up vans), the result at motorway cruising speeds is a little like being locked in a metal box and someone hitting it repeatedly with a hammer, it amplifies every bit of engine, tyre, wind and suspension noise.

Then again they are cheap and very practical.

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

I was refering to the inside noise, so we were on equal wavelengths. There was a point in time where the Toyota Sienna mini-van was considered to be classier than some Lexus models when in top-trim. In top-trim, it felt as though the Sienna was more refined that the previous-generation ES330 in some ways, but I doubt anyone would choose a mini-van over a luxury sedan.

Our Chevrolet Astros and our one GMC Safari that we had suffered from below-average sound isolation, and although it was an okay choise for a trip across the country, it certainly isn't very comfortable to be in for long periods of time given the loud noise levels.

 

[JCE]

but I doubt anyone would choose a mini-van over a luxury sedan.

I would if said minivan came RWD and with a hefty V8 along with a sport suspension and lowered ride height.

 

[Gil]

Based on the mini-vans I've owned, and ridden in. I'm quite fond of the Chevy Venture.
It isn't pretty, but then minivans, for the most part, are not pretty vehicles.
It is capable of hauling 8 people in relative comfort.
Relative, because as the people get bigger the comfort shrinks accordingly.
It has adequate, if not stunning, power. Add to that GM reliability. It doesn't break often, and when it does it isn't of the "spittiing blood" variety that my other mini-van used to do.
I've owned a Plymouth Voyager, and it has, unfortunately, soured me on all products from the Chrysler corporation. And they currently have some very nice looking products, but I just can't bring myself to trust them.
My wife's parents have a very nice Grand Caravan/Voyager. It has the leather, and is fully optioned out. However, whey they go on trips, they take the Toyota Highlander.
None of the new Ford mini-vans trip my trigger. However, if Ford made an 8-passenger mini-van when I bought the Venture, I would likely have bought it instead.
I don't care too much for the Toyota mini-van as I find it truly unattractive.
The Honda is much prettier, but Honda can make huge HP out of any of their engines, and not produce much more than a thimble full of torque. That annoys me.
When you put 8 people in a vehicle, and all but two oor three of those people are over 200lb, torque is a rather important attribute.

 

[1X83Z]

...But, I would like to see more smaller MPV-sized vans come to the US. Practicality is the key there, but they would have to pack in the horsepower to make them big sellers. But hey, diesel may be the best way to go there.

They don't sell, and they never have.

Saturn Relay? The best of an absolutely insipid, disgusting, awful bunch. You posted a picture? Shame. Intense shame.

 

[YSSMAN]

They don't sell, and they never have.

Saturn Relay? The best of an absolutely insipid, disgusting, awful bunch. You posted a picture? Shame. Intense shame.

Must you take everything so seriously? It was pretty obvious that it was a joke.

BTW: I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Saturn Relay...

Lol, atleast it is the only Lambada mini-van that GM got even close to "right."[/QUOTE]

...I would say that even with my GM blinders on, I still wouldn't go for one. But if I had to buy American, it is probably the best choise between Ford, DCX and GM.

 

[Tornado]

...I would say that even with my GM blinders on, I still wouldn't go for one. But if I had to buy American, it is probably the best choise between Ford, DCX and GM.

Well, considering the DCX twins date from the 90's and Ford never had a good minivan, that's a pretty good assumption. I would take a Pacifica over any of the GM vans in a heartbeat, but it's arguable over whether that's a minivan or a station wagon. Then there's the Mercedes R-class, which is technically a DCX product...

 

[YSSMAN]

Very true I suppose. Given the NHSTA's ability to throw the min-ivan title at anything with a flat load floor, I think the Pacifica could pass for it. Hell, I belive the Magnum does as well (I can remember reading a story about it's tinted rear windows because of that).

Sadly the American mini-van grouping is pretty dissapointing. Last I had herd, Ford was on the way to axing the Freestar as it wasn't selling at all. But there was a rumor that the Galaxy and S-max could come to the US to replace it, but nothing is solid as of yet.

The DCX twins are in need of a replacement more than any one of them, as I belive the baisic parts date back to the mid '90s. The good thing is that the next-generation Caravan and Town and Country will share it's pieces with the next-gen VW Mini-van (a spiritual successor to the Eurovan we miss so much?) due in 2008.

But, the GM Lambada vans are just as bad, but less than it's competition. Atleast with the Saturn Relay, it looks okay compared to it's siblings, and it actually has a compotent suspension and engine package that doesn't make it totally suck.

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BTW: I completely forgot about the Eurovan. Vee-Dub fans went crazy after they cut it from the US lineup, and they still miss it to this day.

...I still say that it looks good to this day, and the camper version was quite nice as well. I hope it's successor can live up to the mark, as that van was quite popular here in the US.

 

[a6m5]

I agree. Was one of the best looking minivans around. I can't believe it didn't sell well in the States. Must've been too expensive or something....

 

[JCE]

YSS, that VeeDub van is the ****! I'd own one of those before any other minivan or van. I have a soft spot for VeeDub's vans...and that VeeDub looks...dare I say it...sexy.

 

[YSSMAN]

The good part was that it was pretty refined for it's time as well.

The interior, although somewhat Spartan by today's standards, is functional and rather roomy. Get into the camper version, and it is amazing.

Then there were the VW factory body-kits and such...

It was such a nice van, and I hope it's replacement doesn't completely suck.

 

[1X83Z]

Must you take everything so seriously? It was pretty obvious that it was a joke.

Dude, you even quoted the smiley face I threw in there clearly giving that statement a light tone. You need to stop taking everything I say so seriously. I haven't made a serious post since I got back here - how about having a little fun every so often?

And by the way - you gave yourself a bad impression of me with the SUV thread. Most people will tell you I'm not an asshole as long as you don't take me personally - how about giving that a shot, before snapping at me, as you've now done twice, for absolutely no reason?

EDIT: by the way, I've read a lot more of your posts than you have of mine, and I'm certain we'd get along quite well as long as you approached my character in a positive way, rather than a negative.

 

[1X83Z]

I agree. Was one of the best looking minivans around. I can't believe it didn't sell well in the States. Must've been too expensive or something....

...not to mention drastically underpowered, notoriously unreliable, and - dare I say - impractical. Sorry but I don't consider any vehicle where you have to remove the passenger seat to change the oil particularly practical.

And YSSMAN - read the above post with a smile on your face and see if you still want to send me a nasty reply.

 

[Pupik]

I agree. Was one of the best looking minivans around. I can't believe it didn't sell well in the States. Must've been too expensive or something....

It had no power, it was overpriced, and it was quite spartan for US tastes (although the folding table and window curtains are a nice touch)...that's why it failed.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Dude, you even quoted the smiley face I threw in there clearly giving that statement a light tone. You need to stop taking everything I say so seriously. I haven't made a serious post since I got back here - how about having a little fun every so often?

And by the way - you gave yourself a bad impression of me with the SUV thread. Most people will tell you I'm not an asshole as long as you don't take me personally - how about giving that a shot, before snapping at me, as you've now done twice, for absolutely no reason?

EDIT: by the way, I've read a lot more of your posts than you have of mine, and I'm certain we'd get along quite well as long as you approached my character in a positive way, rather than a negative.

Both of you, please keep personal off topic discussions to the Private Messaging System.

 

[YSSMAN]

I admit that I didn't see the smiley, my apologies. We've all been a bit snappy after the whole SUV thing, so I suggest we let all of that go...

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Back to the discussion:

Now the VW Touran is a nice MPV, correct? I often wonder what the possibilities of it comming to the US are, but with the new Rabbit (Golf) comming stateside, I somewhat dobut it now. But hey, if they do, I'm sure they would sell to VW-crazy folks like me.

 

[Onikaze]

Heh, I had an interesting thought.

How much work would it take to put a Mazda 5 body on say, a Mazdaspeed 6 Drivetrain.

It makes me giggle insanely.

 

[Famine]

Renault Avantime says "Game over, boys!"