LeGeNd-1
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- GTP_LeGeNd-1
OK, I'd like to start by saying that I'm probably one of the biggest GT fans out there. Not in terms of games owned or how lavish my gaming equipment is, but in terms of how much these games mean to me and how much I support PD, Kaz and co. So don't just slag this thread off as another one of those complaining/whining/butthurt threads.
To the respected mods, I'm aware there are threads discussing the DLC, dissapointment about the 2.0 update and Amar's thread, but I feel this issue deserves its own thread so it stands out more to the community, and hopefully to anyone at Sony/PD reading these forums.
As we all know GT5 has its flaws and weird design choices, but so far I'm willing to overlook them just because they're mostly small niggles. I always said to myself that as long as the driving feels good, nothing else matters. And GT5 has exceeded my expectations in that respect. However, with the latest DLC announcement and info in Amar's thread, I've decided that I had enough of PD's nonsense. I can hear you say "Go play another game then" or "Don't buy the DLC if you don't like it". You see, no other racing game comes close to GT in terms of giving me the feel of enjoyment of driving, so switching games is not an option. And unlike some here, I was ecstatic about the Spec 2.0 update and DLC, until I learnt of this problem today (which I have suspected since the DLC announcement). The point of this thread is to make Sony/PD see some sense, and make GT an even better game for everyone in terms of enjoyment. So, let's cut to the chase...
The Problems
1. We can only get one of each DLC car. It's not buyable from the dealership, and you cannot trade/dupe them in ticket/car form.
2. Only 1 chip for each DLC paint. Again, they are untradeable.
Why the fuss?
1. Permanent engine wear starts at 15,000 km/9375 mi (even with rebuilt)
Some of us drive A LOT. GT games has always been about driving enjoyment. Knowing at the back of your head that one day your car is going to lose power takes away the carefree fun and enjoyment of driving these cars.
Those of you saying "Permanent engine wear is realistic, deal with it". Well, in my view ultra realism has its place: real-life. The reason why we enjoy driving games is because we can do things in it that we can't in real life. That includes not worrying about getting killed, paying repair bills, fuel & tyres, insurance, unavoidable deterioration of your car, etc etc. Having these things in-game is cool for 1 minute, then it gets extremely frustrating because it adds absolutely nothing to gameplay enjoyment. Unless you're a masochist, but I doubt most people are.
2. Some upgrades are permanent (NA tune, chassis reinforcement, weight reduction)
A lot of people here (me included) like to be able to drive a car stock, and also tune the hell out of them. Since we can't remove the permanent upgrades, the only way to enjoy a stock car is to buy another one. I have no beef with these upgrades being permanent, but at least allow us a way around it, even if it's circuitous.
3. What if we want multiple cars in multiple colours?
Repainting you car over and over gets annoying. And we have a limited supply of the DLC colours. Also, sometimes you just want to have multiple colours sitting in your garage at the same time. Could be for tuning categorization, or just because you love that car so much you can't decide what colour to have it in. In my case, repainting a car takes away my 'bond' with it. So if I like it in more than 1 colour, I'll buy a couple instead of repainting it now and again.
4. We paid for it with REAL money, so we should get more than just 1 VIRTUAL copy of each car/paint
Self explanatory really. As it stands now it's as bad as EA's rip-off with NFS DLCs.
Solution Ideas
1. Make cars buyable from dealership or as RM versions of their respective models - IMO, easiest to implement and most logical way of solving the problem. The RM method doesn't work with X2011 and karts though, so they HAVE to be in the dealership.
2. Add full restore option to GT Auto - resets everything to 0/0/0 and uninstalls all upgrades. You can make it cost 2 million, but at least let the option be there. Doesn't solve problems 3/4 however.
3. Make DLC cars impervious to engine wear - allows PD to keep their loved [/sarcasm] feature for all other cars, but an exception for DLCs because of their unique one-for-each-player nature. This doesn't solve problems 2/3/4 however.
4. Unlock stock version in Arcade if you have it in GT Mode - the way it was in GT4. Again, this doesn't solve problems 1/3/4.
5. Infinite DLC paint supply - no brainer decision, especially since the whole paint chip idea is retarded to begin with. There's an interim solution here, but it doesn't work for cars that are untradeable.
To go a step further, they could implement a paint shop system:
- 3,000 cr if you paint using chip received from buying a car, daily bonus, garage number bonus, or DLC paint.
- 5,000 cr if you've received that colour before, but don't have a chip right now.
- 10,000 cr to buy a chip you've never received before (you can pick from a list of all the colours available in-game). Also adds colour to your 'history' so you only pay 5,000 cr for subsequent use.
- 20,000 cr to buy a chrome/matte paint you've never received before. Adds to 'history' so you pay 5,000 cr for subsequent use.
- 30,000 cr to unlock paint wheel (also allows different textures). Gives virtually unlimited paint to choose from. Pay 5,000 cr every use.
There you have it. This problem actually started way back at release for those of us lucky enough to get the Stealth/Chromeline cars. But back then I thought it's just a one-off thing, so I'll deal with the oversight. But with DLC, and assuming there are going to be more in the future, this stupidity just doesn't work. Imagine if they start putting out road car DLCs. If you can only have one Lambo Aventador, one Lexus LFA Nurb Ed, one Ferrari FF. How silly would that be? Exactly.
Those who agree, you can help by voting for this in the feedback section (http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums...ow-us-to-obtain-more-than-1-of-each-dlc-car-p). Post more justifications and solutions below to give PD ideas to fix this problem 💡 Maybe even tweet Kaz directly if you can. Or maybe even email Sony 👍
Those who disagree, also feel free to post your thoughts below. It's always good to hear what the other side thinks 👍
Of course, the DLCs may be delivered in a completely different way to Amar than to the rest of us. In the event that we get to purchase the cars multiple times, and paints are multiple use, I will look like a complete idiot, and I'll happily eat my own words, this post, this hat right here -->
and crawl into a rock.
UPDATE: It's now confirmed that cars and paints are ONE use only. Both are UNTRADEABLE. You CAN repurchase them from the PSN store to get another copy, but that is hardly a viable solution over the long term. As far as business strategies go, I feel this is pushing it 👎
UPDATE 2: Kaz has confirmed through twitter (https://www.gtplanet.net/dlc-cars-to-be-purchaseable-in-game/) that an update in December will allow those who've bought the DLC to buy the cars off the dealership. This update will also solve the account lock issue on the same PS3. No words yet on the region lock issue as far as I'm aware. To PD/Kaz: Thank You for considering our issues and solving them. They're very much appreciated and will go a LONG way in restoring the community's faith in PD as a world-class, honourable developer. Once again thank you. 👍👍
Also, sorry for the long-winded post. I don't usually do massive posts, but I just feel the need to get this particular problem off my chest. I spent a good part of 2 hours to type this post, but hopefully it'll be worth it. Many thanks if you've read this post in its entirety
Such a simple rethink and fix, Sony/PD, will make GT5 an infinitely better game for all. Thank You.
LeGeNd-1
To the respected mods, I'm aware there are threads discussing the DLC, dissapointment about the 2.0 update and Amar's thread, but I feel this issue deserves its own thread so it stands out more to the community, and hopefully to anyone at Sony/PD reading these forums.
As we all know GT5 has its flaws and weird design choices, but so far I'm willing to overlook them just because they're mostly small niggles. I always said to myself that as long as the driving feels good, nothing else matters. And GT5 has exceeded my expectations in that respect. However, with the latest DLC announcement and info in Amar's thread, I've decided that I had enough of PD's nonsense. I can hear you say "Go play another game then" or "Don't buy the DLC if you don't like it". You see, no other racing game comes close to GT in terms of giving me the feel of enjoyment of driving, so switching games is not an option. And unlike some here, I was ecstatic about the Spec 2.0 update and DLC, until I learnt of this problem today (which I have suspected since the DLC announcement). The point of this thread is to make Sony/PD see some sense, and make GT an even better game for everyone in terms of enjoyment. So, let's cut to the chase...
The Problems
1. We can only get one of each DLC car. It's not buyable from the dealership, and you cannot trade/dupe them in ticket/car form.
2. Only 1 chip for each DLC paint. Again, they are untradeable.
Why the fuss?
1. Permanent engine wear starts at 15,000 km/9375 mi (even with rebuilt)
Some of us drive A LOT. GT games has always been about driving enjoyment. Knowing at the back of your head that one day your car is going to lose power takes away the carefree fun and enjoyment of driving these cars.
Those of you saying "Permanent engine wear is realistic, deal with it". Well, in my view ultra realism has its place: real-life. The reason why we enjoy driving games is because we can do things in it that we can't in real life. That includes not worrying about getting killed, paying repair bills, fuel & tyres, insurance, unavoidable deterioration of your car, etc etc. Having these things in-game is cool for 1 minute, then it gets extremely frustrating because it adds absolutely nothing to gameplay enjoyment. Unless you're a masochist, but I doubt most people are.
2. Some upgrades are permanent (NA tune, chassis reinforcement, weight reduction)
A lot of people here (me included) like to be able to drive a car stock, and also tune the hell out of them. Since we can't remove the permanent upgrades, the only way to enjoy a stock car is to buy another one. I have no beef with these upgrades being permanent, but at least allow us a way around it, even if it's circuitous.
3. What if we want multiple cars in multiple colours?
Repainting you car over and over gets annoying. And we have a limited supply of the DLC colours. Also, sometimes you just want to have multiple colours sitting in your garage at the same time. Could be for tuning categorization, or just because you love that car so much you can't decide what colour to have it in. In my case, repainting a car takes away my 'bond' with it. So if I like it in more than 1 colour, I'll buy a couple instead of repainting it now and again.
4. We paid for it with REAL money, so we should get more than just 1 VIRTUAL copy of each car/paint
Self explanatory really. As it stands now it's as bad as EA's rip-off with NFS DLCs.
Solution Ideas
1. Make cars buyable from dealership or as RM versions of their respective models - IMO, easiest to implement and most logical way of solving the problem. The RM method doesn't work with X2011 and karts though, so they HAVE to be in the dealership.
2. Add full restore option to GT Auto - resets everything to 0/0/0 and uninstalls all upgrades. You can make it cost 2 million, but at least let the option be there. Doesn't solve problems 3/4 however.
3. Make DLC cars impervious to engine wear - allows PD to keep their loved [/sarcasm] feature for all other cars, but an exception for DLCs because of their unique one-for-each-player nature. This doesn't solve problems 2/3/4 however.
4. Unlock stock version in Arcade if you have it in GT Mode - the way it was in GT4. Again, this doesn't solve problems 1/3/4.
5. Infinite DLC paint supply - no brainer decision, especially since the whole paint chip idea is retarded to begin with. There's an interim solution here, but it doesn't work for cars that are untradeable.
To go a step further, they could implement a paint shop system:
- 3,000 cr if you paint using chip received from buying a car, daily bonus, garage number bonus, or DLC paint.
- 5,000 cr if you've received that colour before, but don't have a chip right now.
- 10,000 cr to buy a chip you've never received before (you can pick from a list of all the colours available in-game). Also adds colour to your 'history' so you only pay 5,000 cr for subsequent use.
- 20,000 cr to buy a chrome/matte paint you've never received before. Adds to 'history' so you pay 5,000 cr for subsequent use.
- 30,000 cr to unlock paint wheel (also allows different textures). Gives virtually unlimited paint to choose from. Pay 5,000 cr every use.
There you have it. This problem actually started way back at release for those of us lucky enough to get the Stealth/Chromeline cars. But back then I thought it's just a one-off thing, so I'll deal with the oversight. But with DLC, and assuming there are going to be more in the future, this stupidity just doesn't work. Imagine if they start putting out road car DLCs. If you can only have one Lambo Aventador, one Lexus LFA Nurb Ed, one Ferrari FF. How silly would that be? Exactly.
Those who agree, you can help by voting for this in the feedback section (http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums...ow-us-to-obtain-more-than-1-of-each-dlc-car-p). Post more justifications and solutions below to give PD ideas to fix this problem 💡 Maybe even tweet Kaz directly if you can. Or maybe even email Sony 👍
Those who disagree, also feel free to post your thoughts below. It's always good to hear what the other side thinks 👍
Of course, the DLCs may be delivered in a completely different way to Amar than to the rest of us. In the event that we get to purchase the cars multiple times, and paints are multiple use, I will look like a complete idiot, and I'll happily eat my own words, this post, this hat right here -->
and crawl into a rock.UPDATE: It's now confirmed that cars and paints are ONE use only. Both are UNTRADEABLE. You CAN repurchase them from the PSN store to get another copy, but that is hardly a viable solution over the long term. As far as business strategies go, I feel this is pushing it 👎
UPDATE 2: Kaz has confirmed through twitter (https://www.gtplanet.net/dlc-cars-to-be-purchaseable-in-game/) that an update in December will allow those who've bought the DLC to buy the cars off the dealership. This update will also solve the account lock issue on the same PS3. No words yet on the region lock issue as far as I'm aware. To PD/Kaz: Thank You for considering our issues and solving them. They're very much appreciated and will go a LONG way in restoring the community's faith in PD as a world-class, honourable developer. Once again thank you. 👍👍
Also, sorry for the long-winded post. I don't usually do massive posts, but I just feel the need to get this particular problem off my chest. I spent a good part of 2 hours to type this post, but hopefully it'll be worth it. Many thanks if you've read this post in its entirety
Such a simple rethink and fix, Sony/PD, will make GT5 an infinitely better game for all. Thank You.
LeGeNd-1
Last edited:
