Something That a Good Sim Should Have (not skidmarks etc.)

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How should the speedometer work?

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gtsmashbros

gtsmashbros

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I think something that any good racing sim should have is a speedometer that tells you how fast the wheels are moving instead of how fast your car is moving.

For example:

If you are, for instance, in a Toyota GT-one, and you have the assists off and you slam on the gas and your wheels start to spin the speedometer should not display zero; instead it should display how fast the wheels are spinning.

Agree or disagree?

Vote/Discuss
 
An even more interesting question: Paper or plastic?
 
neither..............
 
I like it fine how it is now...
 
But don't the speedos take the speed reading from the non-driven wheels? In my car the front ABS sensor is used for the speedo calculations. If I just sit still with the rear wheels spinning the speedo reads as zero (thereabouts) because the front wheels aren't moving.
 
E38
But don't the speedos take the speed reading from the non-driven wheels? In my car the front ABS sensor is used for the speedo calculations. If I just sit still with the rear wheels spinning the speedo reads as zero (thereabouts) because the front wheels aren't moving.
Click to expand...

What car do you own?
 
Something that always bugged me a little but not enough to complain, yes the in car speedo should show the wheel speed. Obviously it varies from model to model (epecially on later cars) but the majority of the time it takes the speed from the output shaft of the transmission.

I don't mind the HUD showing the actual vehicle speed though.
 
Everything's OK the way it is...
although not everything...
we could use some news
 
I'm pretty sure modern racecars use a combination of in-wheel sensors and GPS/dataloggers to check vehicle speed. Thus, if you romp on the throttle on a modern F1, you won't see the speedometer needle fluctuate as the rear tires go up in smoke.

RE: street-cars: The ABS sensor used for speed readings is not specifically on the non-driven wheels, it's just usually on the front wheels. (I say usually but I think it's all of them). Older cars will take it off a speed sensor cog that's driven by the gearbox.

It would be nice from the point of view of realism for PD to implement this, but then, they'd have to go over all 1000 cars and figure out which implementation works. Does this racecar use a datalogger to give accurate speed readings, or a wheel sensor, or a gearbox sensor?

Does this roadcar use an ABS sensor? If so, is it front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive or alll wheel drive? Is it all wheel drive with a locked 50:50 torque split? Is it all-wheel drive only when the tires are spinning? Is it front-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive when the center differential isn't engaged?

Does it even have ABS? Certain cars come in both ABS and non-ABS versions, even for the same model year... thus some will have the gearbox sensor, while others will have a blank where that sensor goes and will have an ABS sensor instead.

Almost every car in the game from the late 90's and up will have a wheel sensor instead of the gearbox sensor... as long as they're not the non-ABS equipped "stripper" models (like the EVO RS models for previous generation EVOs... although the RS does have wheel speed sensors...). Some of you guys seem to be living in the dark ages... :lol:

I don't know about you... but I like it fine the way it is.
 
I find this also a problem, because it's as if the MAP moves about the CAR. In any case, it is IMPOSSIBLE to 'chirp' the following gear. Going from 1st to 2nd the wheels should normally spin a little bit when going into the next gear with the perfect/quick shifting animations. But it's only the case that the spin follows into the next gear when there is an abundance of power that it just carries through.
 
I have no problem with the way it is.
 
Enthusia was very interesting, it had the speedo reading the speed of the wheels, not the velocity of the car, and it even modeled autoboxes properly. These are very minor things, but Enthusia does a great job of having lots of little details, things that GT tries to have.

So, yes, I think it should if possible. It'll be just another of those little 'nice touches' that you'll smile at when you notice them again after a few days.
 
Some people are getting really desperate!
 
gtsmashbros
I think something that any good racing sim should have is a speedometer that tells you how fast the wheels are moving instead of how fast your car is moving.

For example:

If you are, for instance, in a Toyota GT-one, and you have the assists off and you slam on the gas and your wheels start to spin the speedometer should not display zero; instead it should display how fast the wheels are spinning.

Agree or disagree?

Vote/Discuss
Click to expand...

if car is rear wheel drivetrain it will have speedometer on front wheels...FF vice versa... im not sure about 4X4...
 
iced16
if car is rear wheel drivetrain it will have speedometer on front wheels...FF vice versa... im not sure about 4X4...
Click to expand...

I haven't really paid attention to my own car when the wheels are spinning, but on my Dad's car (RWD) the speedo is connected to the rear wheels. On our race car we have Hall effect sensors on each wheel to get speed.
 
happycorey
I find this also a problem, because it's as if the MAP moves about the CAR. In any case, it is IMPOSSIBLE to 'chirp' the following gear. Going from 1st to 2nd the wheels should normally spin a little bit when going into the next gear with the perfect/quick shifting animations. But it's only the case that the spin follows into the next gear when there is an abundance of power that it just carries through.
Click to expand...

It's fine with a G25 and manual clutch, you can do all manner of nasty things to the drivetrain! :dopey:

(except 1st to 2nd appears to be controlled to avoid a huge standing-start advantage)

The issue with the auto clutch is it waits until the revs have matched before re-engaging the clutch, losing all that momentum - especially with road cars with their "heavy" flywheels etc.
 
gtsmashbros
I think something that any good racing sim should have is a speedometer that tells you how fast the wheels are moving instead of how fast your car is moving.

For example:

If you are, for instance, in a Toyota GT-one, and you have the assists off and you slam on the gas and your wheels start to spin the speedometer should not display zero; instead it should display how fast the wheels are spinning.

Agree or disagree?

Vote/Discuss
Click to expand...
totally agree especially in drifting this really bothers me...
Orr they could just let the cockpit speedometer show the wheelspeed and the gamehud shows the speed of the car :D
 
Nope, it's ok as it is to me.
 
Doesn't really bother me too much but, gt should have proper speedo reading, considering how long it's taking it should have every thing right.
 
A problem with this, especially when it comes to racing race cars, is that if your heading into a corner, and you suddenly lock up, your speedometer will go from slowing to 0. This would through me off, and though I can easily save it from spinning, it would screw up my cornering speed. (which is why real race cars have wind speedometers).

Another problem is that AWD drifting would be impossible. Lets say I'm driving the GT-R, a car that sends a third of its power to the back wheels. Lets say I start a drift, what would the speedometer read? The back wheels are spinning but the front are still under power?
 
Well, the GPS-style speedo we've got now is of course going to be the most accurate with regards to the ACTUAL SPEED OF THE VEHICLE. And considering a speedo is supposed to display the speed of the vehicle, not the speed of the output shaft, not the speed of a pair of wheels, but the speed of the vehicle, whatever's the most accurate is of course going to be the best by default.
 
If the GT-One or any other car would have a similar speed-meassuring device IRL it would be appropriate to include it in a Sim.
But i sincerely doubt this is the case, looks to me like a gadget more akin to arcade racers, i only wish for a sim to have features which are accurate IRL and add significantly to the gameplay.
By the way, if i am struggling to get a spinning car under control or trying to drift as smooth as possible the last thing i'm interested in is the speedometer, certainly if it only meassures the revs of the wheels, why would you even need that information?
Or am i missing something?
 
iced16
if car is rear wheel drivetrain it will have speedometer on front wheels...FF vice versa... im not sure about 4X4...
Click to expand...

Not true. My car uses an ABS sensor to measure speed at the front wheels, and it's front-wheel drive. Again... most cars with ABS measure at the front wheels... that's if they measure with the ABS sensor.

Older cars without measure at the gearbox.

Racecars use a combination of hall effect sensors at the wheels, GPS and etcetera.

Again, I highly doubt you could sit at the line in a Toyota GT-One spinning the tires, watching the speedometer twitch. If it were an old pick-up or a muscle car, yes... but not a modern racing car.
 
Uh...if you're getting a crapload of wheelspin and you were only doing c.20mph, I don't think the speedo should show c.100mph.
 
Sam48
A problem with this, especially when it comes to racing race cars, is that if your heading into a corner, and you suddenly lock up, your speedometer will go from slowing to 0. This would through me off, and though I can easily save it from spinning, it would screw up my cornering speed. (which is why real race cars have wind speedometers).

Another problem is that AWD drifting would be impossible. Lets say I'm driving the GT-R, a car that sends a third of its power to the back wheels. Lets say I start a drift, what would the speedometer read? The back wheels are spinning but the front are still under power?
Click to expand...

Having the speedo drop to zero is all part of the realism. If GT5 modelled tires properly, the speedo dropping to zero is the last thing on your mind when you lock the wheels. You'd be far more worried about the fact you just flat spotted your tires, which would mean even if the speedo were displaying the "absolute" vehicle speed you wouldn't be able to corner at the same speed you did last lap anyway.

Regarding AWD cars, they could just have whatever speedo they have in real life.

Not many cars have pitot tubes ("wind speedometers" as you put it). Even with a pitot tube speedo, on a real track the wind will vary speed and direction quite happily by 20 or 30km/h, that'll screw up your corner speeds :p But aren't pitot tubes used primarily as data aquisition rather than speed measuring devices anyway? Wheel speed would be a more accurate measure of speed than pitot tube pressure. If you want uber-accurate speeds there's a lot of other devices you could potentially use.
 
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