Sony in serious trouble?

  • Thread starter Thread starter magburner
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crooky369
The Wii has the best attach rate?

How?!?
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Just as an example, even if I tried to make her, my mom wouldn't touch a PS3 game. I fired up Wii Bowling and before I could even ask if she wanted to try it, she was asking if she could. With a simple interface, it's more of a draw to a wider base of people. Basically, there are more Wii's in households than there are PS3. Based off of that, it's simple math.
 
Famine
the PSP is the current best-selling console full stop.
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The Nintendo DS has sold almost twice as much as the PlayStation Portable so far (~75million vs. ~40million) from the figures I've seen and is also selling much more on a monthly basis.
 
The figures I've seen says that the PSP is currently selling at a higher rate than the DS, both in Europe and Japan - though the DS has sold more overall.

But even if it isn't currently true, it hardly paints a picture of doom for Sony.
 
Famine
PSP is the current best-selling console full stop.
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Ok now thats BS. Although not a flop, its certainly not as successful as its rival nor many home consoles. Is it more successful than the PS1? SNES? Megadrive? I very much doubt that.
The PSP has been a flop as a games machine just because it has a very poor array of titles for it, sure there are some good games on it, but nothing worthy of buying the console for - nearly everyone who buys a PSP either knows little about its games or is buying it for its excellent media capabilities.

Anyway, I agree with Sony not really being in trouble at all, at least no where near the usual meaning for "trouble" for a games company....e.g. the Atari Jaguar, 3DO, Sega Dreamcast, etc.
However, they have taken some dangerous gambles with the PS3 that have forced developers to their rival consoles and Sony have lost what originally made their consoles so successful - cheap, usable hardware with low royalties. I fear its because of piracy they have done this, even though it was highly advantageous to them anyway.
 
Ardius
Ok now thats BS.
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Please choose your words very carefully. Also, please acquaint yourself with factual data before leaping to assumptions.

I said it is the current best-selling console. It currently sells more units than any other console.
 
Famine
Please choose your words very carefully. Also, please acquaint yourself with factual data before leaping to assumptions.

I said it is the current best-selling console. It currently sells more units than any other console.
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Current can be interpreted to mean so far or to this date.

And I don't need to be reminded of the data to know all the consoles named have sold more to this date than the PSP and can be considered more successful though the advice is noted.
 
Well a company relying on a single product will lose its foundation and bingo there goes the company. Sony sells computers, TV's, surround sound sets, and much more; I'd be amazed if Sony came down just by the Playstation console platform.
 
Famine
The figures I've seen says that the PSP is currently selling at a higher rate than the DS, both in Europe and Japan - though the DS has sold more overall.
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Wait, really? Last I heard (granted, this was two weeks ago) the "New" and "Improved" DSi was outselling everything.
 
It changes week on week, frankly. The PSP did hit a point where it was selling more than everything else combined for a week... It wouldn't surprise me if the DS spiked back again - we bought two for Christmas :lol:
 
Neither of the consoles are perfect. The video games today ran on 720p, and once you go for 1080p, they will be upscaled. Did anybody try to set the HDMI black level to normal on your HDTV? I tested and confirmed that it gives you brightness on your HDTV, not the game. It gives you better results while playing Gran Turismo 5 Prologue. I use the Samsung 48" 1080p HDTV for that.

Anyways, it's called marketing technique. It's always at everybody's compy.
 
matt1245
As far as i'm aware, we were never promised a 'big fall update' which was to include damage. I think it's a case of one person speculating about it and it leading to a huge urban myth.

Does anybody have a link to an official announcement by PD that there was to be a 'big fall update' which was going to include damage and private rooms etc?
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It took me a while to find it, but yes there was an official statement (or rather an interview with KY), which in my mind is as good as official. Read on:

Will the US get the content that was added to the UK version?

Yamauchi: The Japanese version was updated to match the UK version on the day of the UK release, so they are now the same. And the US version that's coming out is going to be pretty much the same as the UK version.

There are still a lot of things we have left un-done in GT5 Prologue, so by fall [autumn] this year there will be another major update to the game.

What sort of content can we expect from the update?

Yamauchi: The major things that we're planning for the update will be to add community building features such as communication between players and also damage for the cars.
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CVG Kazunori Yamauchi Interview (April 2008)

Holdenhsvgtsr
I still don't see how you can claim sony are in trouble just because they aren't advertising one product whereas they are still constantly advertising others.
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One product they spent billions developing.

Maybe I should of been a little clearer when I said 'in trouble'. not financially in trouble, but with regards to the PS3 sales they are. If you want people to buy something, you have to let them know about it. M$ are whoring the airwaves, whilst Sony is staying tight lipped.

@Digital-Nitrate: I've been thinking long and hard about my feelings towards games lately, and maybe, my expectations are a little unrealistic, or maybe I'm falling out of love with games in general. Then again it might be to do with the fact that last generation, Sony where omnipotent, whilst this generation, they seem incompetent.

Sony has marketed the PS3 as a console of immense power and ability, GT5:P MGS4 and, uhhh... thats it, have proven that it does have the nads, but the killer games are few and far between, compared to the 360 that seems to get new and great games on a weekly basis.

Almost everything I am currently waiting for on the PS3 has either been delayed, or will seemingly never happen. Home took forever to get here, Killzone should be here already, as for GT5, well, I'm gonna die waiting for that game! I also, still haven't seen a quality Japanese RPG for the PS3 either, are we ever going to get one?

I only have to walk into my local game store to see the difference in the amount of games. The PS3 rack is only half the size of the 360 rack. And no, the 360 rack doesn't contain every game made for the system, just the recent ones.

I know this is hardly a scientific experiment, but the results have rung true for me every time. With every sinlge console I have purchased, I have based my descision on the sixe of the consoles game rack. I was right with the PS1, and right with the PS2. The P3 is the first console that I have brought based on expectations of future products, rather than actual avaialability of games.
 
Key word in the above quote you made of KY is that he is planning. That's very different from saying "we will be adding damage for the cars"
 
I've given up on the GT series long ago, if they can't bother making a game in a timely matter I'm going on to something else. There are other games on the PS3 that warrant playing and if/when GT5 comes out I'll get it but I don't expect it any time soon. If you only bought the PS3 to play one game then you've wasted your money as there are a bunch of other things is can do.

I've played a couple good games on the PS3, but I tend to like the 360's game selection better. Also since there are more games out for the 360 and more people playing 360's, used games are cheaper. Like I said just because you don't find anything appealing doesn't mean there aren't good games out there.

Also isn't Valkyria Chronicles a Japanese RPG that received pretty positive reviews?
 
Yahoo recently printed, that after the first of the year, sony is going to lay off 6,000 employes. That's a lot of people no matter how big of a company you are, and doesn't help make you look any better. The article also mentioned adobe letting like 800 people go, there was one other tech company mentioned but I can't remember who.

Here is an article telling about sony's cost cutting measures. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/12/08/financial/f224226S53.DTL

Draw whatever conclusion you want from that. Sony is definitely trying to deal with the global recession. Only the strongest tech companies are going to make it out of this still on top. I don't know if sony will be one or not.

If sony is in trouble or not is debatable, but this article shows how much trouble we are all in. It doesn't matter how big of a company you work for, or how much you think your company needs you. At any moment you can be considered expendable.
It's sad to see major companies like sony, have to take measures like this in todays world.

Here's another article speaking about microsofts job cut plans.http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...inancial/f112047S11.DTL&feed=rss.business

I'm only comparing MS, and sony, because that's the 2 rivals of this forum. If you had to get a job with one of them tomorrow who would it be. That should tell you which one could be in trouble. I said could. So don't kill me over this.

I do know that MS and sony are two completely different styles of companies. Sony has a lot more invested into many different types of electronics. Just to make it more fair, I'll go look for some more tech company lay off plans.
I couldn't find info as easy as with these 2 huge companies. I will keep looking, may take a little longer then expected.
 
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Just because they're cutting 6000 jobs doesn't mean they're in trouble.

What it does mean is that they are confident in their predictions that there will be a major decline in demand, so production must be reduced. It's a sensible, but cut-throat, business decision. Sure it also proves that they aren't so big (or stupid) to just except the losses without seeking to reduce the effects.
 
magburner
Maybe I should of been a little clearer when I said 'in trouble'. not financially in trouble, but with regards to the PS3 sales they are. If you want people to buy something, you have to let them know about it. M$ are whoring the airwaves, whilst Sony is staying tight lipped.
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And yet, what you continue to ignore are facts.

The fact is the PS3 has been selling at a faster rate over it's first two years on the market then the 360... and while I don't really pay a lot of attention to most advertising, if what you claim is true, and Sony isn't advertising as much... and their console costs a lot more than the 360... and yet the sales rates are faster for the PS3 than the 360... Especially in the UK where you reside... what does that tell you?

Seems to me it should be painfully obvious that Sony is actually doing something right, and their product isn’t failing at all.


magburner
@Digital-Nitrate: I've been thinking long and hard about my feelings towards games lately, and maybe, my expectations are a little unrealistic, or maybe I'm falling out of love with games in general. Then again it might be to do with the fact that last generation, Sony where omnipotent, whilst this generation, they seem incompetent.
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"Seem (to you)" being the important choice of words, as the facts simply do not support what 'you seem' to think is true.

Not only are there nearly a hundred games for the PS3 that have received excellent reviews, but you should check out the average ratings from reviewers for games that were released on the PS2 during it's first two years and try and convince us that they were still some how better than the selection of games available for the PS3… despite what the reviews would suggest.

I'm not saying that your personal subjective opinions are wrong. If you really don’t like something and another person really likes it… you both are correct, you just have a different opinion.

However, if you are using facts that are not true to support your opinions, and or when you consider that your opinions are so contrary to most, and that you even say that maybe you are falling out of love with games in general - I would argue that your expressed opinions say a great deal more about you and very little about the actual quality of games today - especially as it pertains to everyone else, and not just yourself.

However, the facts simply do not support most of what you claim is true, and that’s the issue I am raising and trying to bring to your attention, especially because it’s posts like yours that often get mistaken for factual statements, and that’s how false rumors get spread like wildfire.

  • You claim Sony is in serious trouble, and your only correlation that you offer is the way you feel they have handled the PS3.
    • Untrue, as already proven in this thread.

  • You then correct yourself, and instead claim that regards to the PS3 sales they are in trouble.
    • Untrue, see above.

  • You claim that in the UK, advertising for the PS3 is non-existent.
    • Untrue, which really didn't need proof as it's a blatant exaggeration.

  • You claim 99% of the adverts on TV for games, are for the 360.
    • Untrue, see above.

  • You claim Sony have become masters at delaying everything!
    • Untrue. See above. There have been plenty of games and products that have not been delayed. Perhaps more importantly, name me one game developer that has not delayed a product.
    • Besides, which would you rather have, a product rushed to market missing features and not properly tested (*ahem*360*ahem*)?

  • You claim Sony have had two years to deliver... nothing!
    • Untrue. See above.

  • You claim Sony's catalogue of PS3 games is hardly in the same league as what Microsoft has to offer.
    • Untrue. Based on the vast majority of published game critics, if anything the opposite is closer to being true.

  • You claim you are trying your hardest to be optimistic about future game releases.
    • Perhaps true in your mind, but I suspect most people who read your posts in this thread would feel the opposite is true.

  • You claim that last generation, Sony where omnipotent, whilst this generation, they seem incompetent.
    • They may seem that way to you, but not only do you have no facts to back that up, but the facts actually suggest the opposite is true.

  • You claim only GT5:P and MGS4 have proven that the PS3 does have the "nads".
    • Well seeing as you offered no facts to back that up, and there are facts that again suggest that there are far more games than those two for the PS3 that have shown what the PS3 is capable of, then I would have to say this is yet another untrue statement.

  • You claim killer games for the PS3 are few and far between, compared to the 360 that seems to get new and great games on a weekly basis.
    • Again, while it may be your personal opinion, as far as most people are concerned, the facts do not support it.
    • In fact, I'd love to see you try and make a list of all these so-called "great games" that come out on a weekly basis for the 360 that are so much better than anything that comes out for the PS3. If you can't, then I suggest you stop making such ridiculous comments. It makes it nearly impossible to believe anything you have to say.

  • You claim the PS3 rack is only half the size of the 360 rack at your local game store (no name given) and that the 360 rack doesn't contain every game made for the system, just the recent ones.
    • Seeing as there are nearly as many games being released for the PS3 as there are for the 360 (you do realize most games are multi-platform), then it sounds like maybe your problem is you are shopping at the wrong store. If what you claim is true, it also sounds like they have an incentive to sell more 360 games. It's a practice not uncommonly used. This is assuming what you say is true and not another gross exaggeration, which you must admit, is not easy to do given your previous claims.

  • You claim your observations at that store are hardly a scientific experiment.
    • Ding, Ding, Ding.... we have ourselves a winner! True! 👍
    • Unfortunately you then followed that claim by saying that the results have rung true every time. Which falls into the previous category of accuracy.



magburner, if you recall, the last time you got all hot under the collar over something and started a thread about it, it didn't exactly go over very well. Before you decide to respond any further in this thread, perhaps you might consider re-reading your own posts as well as those from others in this thread, and do some real fact checking.

There isn't anything wrong with having a minority opinion about something, but when you say things that are simply untrue, and or exaggerate the facts, you not only lose credibility among those that know better, but you do a great disservice to this community when you knowingly post false or misleading information.

First rule in GTP's AUP:
You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.
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The reason for this is that it's posts like that that can be mistakenly taken for being truthful, and then passed on like a virus throughout the internet and beyond.

The other reason I suspect this site frowns upon those who knowingly post false or misleading information is that posts like that often result in ugly heated verbal fights.

Now just because you may not have not been officially warned or even banned from GTP doesn't mean you have not violated the AUP. Unlike some sites on the net that either have a strict adherence to the rules policy, or those allowing members to do what ever they like, I have found that GTP has found a very nice balance between the two, and really only punish those that continually go out of their way to disregard the rules, and degrade the quality of the discussions on GTP.

I personally don't feel you fall under that category, but I also feel you have made posts that certainly do violate the AUP, and it might be a good idea to keep that in mind the next time you know you are about to post something that even you would find to be less than honest.
 
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bevo
I don't really think the blu-ray deal was a big thing. Downloads are the future, netflix will take over, and look who has that.
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Odd, I don't own anything from Netflix, and they are slow at getting new releases for download. Netflix needs a major change before they can even compete with download-to-own services like the PlayStation video store in the US. Netflix streaming has its bonuses, but when it comes to new movies or even presumed ownership they aren't up to par yet.

I bet blu-ray lasts maybe 2 more years, and then it will be a novelty item.
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I'll tell you what, when my cable company offers upwards of 10mb at their base rate we can talk, but as long as 8mb is their maximum downloads aren't happening very often.

Why would anyone pay 30$ to own a blu-ray disk, when they can download an hd movie for 6$.
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Aside form all the things others have mentioned about quality, OWN is the keyword here. Why do I want to pay $6 to rent a movie when I want to own them?

Then get into the fact that even downloadable purchases are DRM'd so much that you may as well not own them and BD just looks much more beneficial.

Between Internet speeds and DRM downloads have huge hurdles to overcome. And if you really think they will be overcome in just a few years then you are mistaken. I still buy CDs, unless I just want one song, because I hate the DRM and multiple non-standard formats. If I want MP3s from a band I buy the CD, load it into my PS3, have it rip them into fairly high quality (decent enough for me) MP3s, and then port them off to whatever devices I want them on.

I am the same with movies from DVD. I have DVD ripping and conversion software so I can put any of my movies on my PSP or PS3. And then if I delete it off of those devices I can still have it, or I can still take my DVD to a friend's house to let them watch the movie.


magburner
I only have to walk into my local game store to see the difference in the amount of games. The PS3 rack is only half the size of the 360 rack. And no, the 360 rack doesn't contain every game made for the system, just the recent ones.

I know this is hardly a scientific experiment, but the results have rung true for me every time. With every sinlge console I have purchased, I have based my descision on the sixe of the consoles game rack. I was right with the PS1, and right with the PS2. The P3 is the first console that I have brought based on expectations of future products, rather than actual avaialability of games.
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Actually, I can explain what you are seeing. Next to the PS3 section there is likely a PS2 section, yes? Stores only have so much shelf space and with Limited edition packs, huge bundles, and music games that space is getting more and more limited. Now, throw in the fact that home consoles were a 3 system deal until this gen. The PlayStation brand is now two home consoles. Game stores don't see The PS3 space, the PS2 space, the 360 space, and the Wii space. They see Microsoft space, Nintendo space, and Sony space. Sony has two home consoles and a portable, so they require three sections to Microsoft's one and Nintendo's two. When the PS2 launched and the PS1 was still active there wasn't yet an XBox or PSP. And developers jumped into the PS2 and left the PS1 behind fairly quickly.

Now, lets look at today. The PS2 is still going very strong, and is actually the reason Sony could manage to make the PS3 expensive and take the losses they knew they would take. They are still making money because the PS2 has become nearly pure profit at this point and is still popular. That popularity is in part due to the Wii. Graphically the Wii and PS2 are very similar and so Wii versions of new games are easily ported to the PS2. If it weren't for the Wii then I think Sony would have made a bad gamble, but as long as a new and popular system is in the same class the PS2 will have a profitable market. I have personally bought a couple of PS2 games since getting my PS3.

So, you have two good systems taking up the space previously used by one. So, yeah, the PS3 section will be smaller. But I also notice that the shovelware hits the bargain bin much quicker.

I mean, if we were just looking at the number of games on shelves then you should be thinking that the Wii is the only good looking system. Of course, it has 90% crap on its shelves.



Anyway, I do agree that Sony's advertising efforts have been poor in comparison to Microsoft's. Their latest ad campaign in the US looks really cool to us current gamers. But my wife saw it and said she saw LBP and that car game I play. When I pointed out that it was Motorstorm, and I don't play it she just shrugged. It is a great ad visually and for fans, but new business has no clue what they just saw. They don't get the small details, like the LBP stuff was started by a guy creating it on a wall, while everything else was just playing.

But I think until Sony can compare price-wise at the register it won't serve them well to do too much. And it will look like the 360 is suddenly doing great but the majority of all console sales happen under $200(US), which typically happens near the end of year three. The 360 just hit that point, the PS3 has a year to go.

But then the 360 price value is an illusion in my mind and it is purely the uninformed masses that don't notice that.
 
Ardius
Ok now thats BS. Although not a flop, its certainly not as successful as its rival nor many home consoles. Is it more successful than the PS1? SNES? Megadrive? I very much doubt that.
The PSP has been a flop as a games machine just because it has a very poor array of titles for it, sure there are some good games on it, but nothing worthy of buying the console for - nearly everyone who buys a PSP either knows little about its games or is buying it for its excellent media capabilities.
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Do some research. Every system has many poor titles, PSP has many good. Plus its VERY successful. Its out sold every competitor Nintendo has ever had combined. SNES sold like 50 million units. PSP has out sold the Dream cast and Sega Genesis and could pass the SNES in 1 year. It out sold the xbox in half the time of existence at a similar price. I would surely like to know your definition of successful? I own one at i use offen and i own 25 UMD games. Had it since launch.

Mega Drive sales- 29million
Super Nintendo sales- 49million
Dreamcast- 10million
Xbox- 25million
PSP-42million pre Christmas.

Reguardless of what the DS does the PSP has helds its own in the industry. I think it reached its peak in 2007
 
LaBounti
Do some research. Every system has many poor titles, PSP has many good. Plus its VERY successful. Its out sold every competitor Nintendo has ever had combined. SNES sold like 50 million units. PSP has out sold the Dream cast and Sega Genesis and could pass the SNES in 1 year. It out sold the xbox in half the time of existence at a similar price. I would surely like to know your definition of successful? I own one at i use offen and i own 25 UMD games. Had it since launch.

Mega Drive sales- 29million
Super Nintendo sales- 49million
Dreamcast- 10million
Xbox- 25million
PSP-42million pre Christmas.

Reguardless of what the DS does the PSP has helds its own in the industry. I think it reached its peak in 2007
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Then perhaps I need to clearer - I'm rating the PSP as a games console, is it a successful games console? Perhaps it sold well in numbers, but has it been really selling for its games or its media capabilities? I'm inclined to say the latter.
 
Ardius
Then perhaps I need to clearer - I'm rating the PSP as a games console, is it a successful games console? Perhaps it sold well in numbers, but has it been really selling for its games or its media capabilities? I'm inclined to say the latter.
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I can't see how that makes much of a difference. The fact that if can play games obviously qualifies it as a games console. Bonus - it also plays video, music, etc. Sony can't be held responsible for what people actually do with their product.
 
TB
I can't see how that makes much of a difference. The fact that if can play games obviously qualifies it as a games console. Bonus - it also plays video, music, etc. Sony can't be held responsible for what people actually do with their product.
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I wasn't arguing Sony are in trouble though, I was arguing over this statement:

Famine
PSP is the current best-selling console full stop.
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I actually originally said that I believe Sony won't be in trouble for a long time yet. But you know, I guess people don't read threads any more, only the last post.
 
I don't recall saying that you were arguing for or against Sony being in trouble. What I (essentially) said was your not considering the PSP a game console is incorrect. My previous post still stands.

And I have read the entire thread, thanks.
 
TB
I don't recall saying that you were arguing for or against Sony being in trouble. What I (essentially) said was your not considering the PSP a game console is incorrect. My previous post still stands.

And I have read the entire thread, thanks.
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Well then, I stand corrected. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Just because something plays games and its successful doesn't make it a successful games console. Is an iPod a successful games console then? No it is not, it is not bought for its games, its bought for its ability as a music player.

The PSP is basically a handheld media-player with massive capabilities. I think its been bought on this premise more than it has as a games machine.
 
Ardius
Well then, I stand corrected. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Just because something plays games and its successful doesn't make it a successful games console. Is an iPod a successful games console then? No it is not, it is not bought for its games, its bought for its ability as a music player.

The PSP is basically a handheld media-player with massive capabilities. I think its been bought on this premise more than it has as a games machine.
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I guess that's where we'll agree to disagree. I think of it as more of a game system. I'm not saying that if I had one I wouldn't use it for videos and web surfing, but those aren't the reason I'd buy one. The general consensus here at work (mostly non-gamers) is that the PSP is for games. The Wiki page has it listed as a handheld game console and Playstations own website has Gaming listed as the first feature. But enough about semantics. Regardless of what it's considered, it has been outsold by the DS at a rate of 2 to 1 anyway. :lol:
 
Digital-Nitrate
You claim Sony is in serious trouble
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No. If you look at the title of this thread, I asked if Sony was in trouble, that's what the question mark at the end of the title thread signifies, a question. I will admit that I have stated a case that they might be, but the purpose of this thread was as much a statement as a question.

Digital-Nitrate
You claim that in the UK, advertising for the PS3 is non-existent.
Untrue, which really didn't need proof as it's a blatant exaggeration.
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It is not an exaggeration! The only advert I have seen on TV is for LBP (the one where the dog blows up), and nothing Else.

Maybe, I'm boiling the kettle every time the Sony adverts are on, but I can guarantee every time I sit down with my steaming mug of Joe, a 360 advert will pop up! Fable 2, Infinite Undiscovery, Gears of War 2, lips, all those adverts with a cinema in the back of a girls head, the constant £129.99 adverts featuring every game that is currently available. Then there are the adverts by games retailers. I have not seen Game advertise the PS3 in any form of bundle once. In fact, I don't even know what bundles are currently available for the PS3, but I know every single price point for the 360.

Digital-Nitrate
Besides, which would you rather have, a product rushed to market missing features and not properly tested
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Uh, that is a lie. Most of the titles I have brought for the PS3 have been release practically untested, or so it would seem buy the poor quality of the games in question.

For instance:

PES2008:- This game was my first must have purchase as I wanted to find some descent competition on line to play against. I rushed home and plugged it into my PS3 to be met with an apology because the online portion of the game was broke. They took so long to fix it, that I sold the game whilst I could still get something back for it.

Civilization:Revolution:- Again, this game was release with known issues that took a long time to get sorted, particularly online connection issues.

CoD4:- Released in November, then online idiots find way to hack the option file to make it easier to kill the rest of us. IW, take until well after the new year to sort it out, and that is on top of the online connection issues that plagued last Christmas.

GT5:P:- Only now are we seeing a resolution to the many online issues that have plagued the game, but still they are not all sorted.

Motorstorm:- yet another game plagued with cheaters and the like. It took much complaining to get the many problems sorted.

CoD5:WaW:- This game has so many bugs its a wonder why it was ever released in the first place! There are blatant glitches in the game where you can hide under the map and take pot shots at people without them being any the wiser. On top of that, Treyarch include an option to turn off aim assist, that simply doesn't work. Try it, and see!

Digital-Nitrate
You claim you are trying your hardest to be optimistic about future game releases.
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I have no option but to be optimistic. I made a significant investment in the PS3 brand, and I have yet to see a return.

Digital-Nitrate
You claim only GT5:P and MGS4 have proven that the PS3 does have the "nads".
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The proof is in the pudding, or so they say! GT5:P is a great looking game, and so is MGS4. Out of the two though, I would say that MGS4 is the better game, but only just.

Digital-Nitrate
You claim killer games for the PS3 are few and far between, compared to the 360 that seems to get new and great games on a weekly basis.
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Maybe its the Christmas release schedule or something, but I have seen some super games come out for the 360 (GoW2, Fable 2, Infinite Undiscovery, Quantum of Solice etc), and they already have a superb and in-depth racing simulation. Us PS3 gamers are still waiting (for you know what).

Digital-Nitrate
You claim the PS3 rack is only half the size of the 360 rack at your local game store (no name given) and that the 360 rack doesn't contain every game made for the system, just the recent ones.
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Uh... The stores name Is Game! And yes, the rack is twice as big!

Digital-Nitrate
Seeing as there are nearly as many games being released for the PS3 as there are for the 360 (you do realize most games are multi-platform), then it sounds like maybe your problem is you are shopping at the wrong store. If what you claim is true, it also sounds like they have an incentive to sell more 360 games. It's a practice not uncommonly used. This is assuming what you say is true and not another gross exaggeration, which you must admit, is not easy to do given your previous claims.
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Here is a good barometer for game sales in the UK check out the top 100 best sellers at Play.com:

Top 100 best sellers

Notice the 360 whitewash on the charts? Apart from all the the cross platform titles, M$ has four exclusives in the top 100, whilst Sony has none, and there is no sign whatsoever of LBP (the one game that Sony is advertising on TV!). Judging by the chart, the only serious competition M$ have is with the Wii, or is that the other way around?

Compare these console bundle offers at Game:

360 console bundles

The Average price for a 360 bundle is £166.62

PS3 console bundles

The average price for a PS3 bundle is £261.71

Now, the hardcore of Sony fans will of already brought a PS3 by now. All of my friends that were waiting for the system to fall below the psychological £300 barrier have done so. All that Sony have left to persuade are the floaters. with a price point £100 higher than that of the 360, they are not doing themselves any favours.

Digital-Nitrate
magburner, if you recall, the last time you got all hot under the collar over something and started a thread about it, it didn't exactly go over very well. Before you decide to respond any further in this thread, perhaps you might consider re-reading your own posts as well as those from others in this thread, and do some real fact checking.
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I will hold my hand up to that, it was an uncalled for rant. This thread is hardly in the same league though. 👍

Yet more 'misleading' evidence:

Hardware Sales (vgchartz)

Check out the big chart in the middle of the page, that backs up what I have been saying (notice Sony in 3rd place).

Now skip to the hardware sales chart on the right side of the page (marked 2oth December 2008). Sony is last on that chart with both the PSP and the PS3, with the PS3 lagging behind the hand-held.

Now compare the sales figures to that of the 360, and you see an almost 2:1 ratio in total units sold at that point in time, though there is a marked difference in sales per territory. In North America, the figure is clearly 2:1, in Europe, the figures are much closer, but total sales are lower also. Its pointless even comparing the PS3 to Nintendo's offerings as Nintendo are appealing to a totally different market than that of the PS3 or the 360.

If further evidence is needed, check this selection of charts:

Cumulative figures for sales of the Wii, 360 and PS3 from 20th January 2007, upto the 20th December 2008 (USA)

As per usual the Wii is off to the races with strong sales figures. The 360 is second, but you can see that M$ have started to eat into the Wii's lead. The PS3 has shown little sign of catching up with the 360, let alone try and dent the lead of the Wii.

Cumulative figures for sales of the Wii, 360 and PS3 from 20th January 2007, upto the 20th December 2008 (USA)

Weekly sales figures for the Wii, 360, and the PS3 from January 2007 upto 20th December 2008 (every territory)

This is the most interesting chart of all! Throughout the last two years, Sony and M$ have traded lead regularly, with sales matched very closely. If you look at the last 6 months though, M$ have sold significantly more console per week than the PS3, proof that their 'blanket advertising' strategy is working. It will also be interesting to see the sales figures post Christmas, to see if the plan that Sony has is really working.

Sony IS in trouble, if the evidence of these charts is to be believed. Maybe its not the 'red flag waving' trouble that you may of assumed, but the market share they once enjoyed has gone. Whether it be because if the price of the system, the quality of the games, or the credit crunch. The strangle hold that Sony once had over the console market has been shattered.

Maybe we've been spoilt these past ten years with the success that Sony has generated, but the realities of this generation are that the market is not led by Sony.

You say that I have minority opinions, I could say that of yours, too. We both own PS3s, so you could say that what we both say is in a minority (compared to actual sales figures).

I desperately want Sony to succeed, but for that to happen, they have to take on the 360, which is something Sony seem unwilling or unable to do. In a funny kind of way I can respect what Sony are doing, but like I have said, they need to be more forthcoming with the titles, and we need a certified 'killer app' to get those floaters spending big bucks. 👍

Foolkiller
Now, lets look at today. The PS2 is still going very strong, and is actually the reason Sony could manage to make the PS3 expensive and take the losses they knew they would take. They are still making money because the PS2 has become nearly pure profit at this point and is still popular. That popularity is in part due to the Wii. Graphically the Wii and PS2 are very similar and so Wii versions of new games are easily ported to the PS2. If it weren't for the Wii then I think Sony would have made a bad gamble, but as long as a new and popular system is in the same class the PS2 will have a profitable market. I have personally bought a couple of PS2 games since getting my PS3.
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That is a very reasonable argument, but what you are suggesting is a result of circumstances, as opposed to an actual market strategy.

The shock surprise of this generation has been the Wii, its a fantastic piece of kit for the casual gamer. It might not be the best system techincally, but Nintendo have proved that you dont need CBEs, or billions of polygons per second to make compelling games.
 
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