Space In General

[Dotini]

The Sun will likely be hurling a series of CME's and flares at the Earth over the next week. or two. This could get interesting!

From today's edition of Spaceweather.com:

A CRACK IN EARTH'S MAGNETIC FIELD: During the early hours of July 22nd (0330 - 1000 UT) a crack opened in Earth's magnetic field: data. Solar wind poured in, fueling a period of geomagnetic unrest (Kp=4). So far no reports of auroras have been received, probably due to the glare of northern summer sunlight. Quiet conditions have since resumed. Solar flare alerts:SMS Text.

GEOMAGNETIC STORM WATCH: A filament of magnetism near sunspot AR2846 erupted on July 20th, hurling a CME into space. Normally, the location of the blast site would rule out an impact on Earth. However, the explosion's debris squirted out sideways:

Modeling by NOAA suggests that the edge of the CME will strike Earth's magnetic field late on July 23rd, potentially sparking minor G1-classgeomagnetic storms. This forecast is very uncertain, however; the CME is just as likely to miss entirely. If it does arrive, high-latitude sky watchers should be alert for auroras this weekend. Aurora alerts: SMS Text.

 

[RacingFan1]

Not really. We've been exploring the solar system for over 50 years now and we've gone from barely being able to orbit the planet to flying helicopters around on Mars. Is it difficult? Sure, but it's not unrealistic by any means. Interstellar travel is still a ways off, but interplanetary travel isn't. Humans will be on Mars before the end of the decade. You have to start somewhere though and we have more advanced technology today than those who explored the oceans millennia ago.


The Sun isn't the issue, it's the quickly dwindling resources on Earth that will pose a problem. There's going to come a point in the next 100 years where certain resources just won't be available on Earth or they'll be controlled by a country that won't sell them to another. The only way around this is to look for resources elsewhere, which is space.

There's also a real possibility Earth could become uninhabitable for humans sooner rather than later. We're either going to have to adapt to the new environment, die, or find a new place to live.

I'd rather people be trying to figure this stuff out now instead of when it's way to late.

Mars is inhabitable. So is any other planet on our Solar System (besides Earth)

We have to learn how to live on Earth with a sustainable way of life, without wasting our limited resources, recycling everything, and all that stuff. This is the only way forward I can see.

 

[andrea]

Bezos and friends made a successful trip in his Penis and landed safely after a high altitude circumcision.

In 10 minutes and 29 seconds up and down.

Sub space just the tip exploration.

 

[Joey D]

Mars is inhabitable. So is any other planet on our Solar System (besides Earth)

We have to learn how to live on Earth with a sustainable way of life, without wasting our limited resources, recycling everything, and all that stuff. This is the only way forward I can see.

Mars is very much habitable with the right technologies, and those technologies already exist. The biggest issue is actually getting the stuff there to make it happen, which will be possible with the private space industry. There are other potentially habitable planets as well and we've only begun to scratch the surface of what sort of things are in our solar system. Think about Pluto, until a few years ago, the best image we had of Pluto was a grainy, blurry, blob. Now we have a crystal clear image of it.

While it's certainly a priority to take care of Earth, expanding into the solar system should not be put to the wayside. While other planets aren't going to be habitable in the same way as Earth, humans can certainly make it so they can survive on them. There are other things besides dwindling resources that are cause for concern on Earth too. We're one big volcanic eruption away from needing to leave the planet if we want to survive. The same goes for an asteroid strike too.

 

[Danoff]

Mars is inhabitable. So is any other planet on our Solar System (besides Earth)

We have to learn how to live on Earth with a sustainable way of life, without wasting our limited resources, recycling everything, and all that stuff. This is the only way forward I can see.

I don't think you're properly appreciating how much we have learned about Earth's climate, and how much it is affected by changes, by studying the formation and composition of the climates and structure of the other planets in the solar system. Rocketry is a big part of that.

 

[MatskiMonk]

While it's certainly a priority to take care of Earth, expanding into the solar system should not be put to the wayside. While other planets aren't going to be habitable in the same way as Earth, humans can certainly make it so they can survive on them. There are other things besides dwindling resources that are cause for concern on Earth too. We're one big volcanic eruption away from needing to leave the planet if we want to survive. The same goes for an asteroid strike too.

If we can survive in Domes on Mars, a planet which does not naturally sustain human life to any degree, we can surely survive in Domes on Earth even if the planet has otherwise been decimated.

Space exploration for the purposes of surviving the effective destruction of Earth really needs to focus on a viable way to get to Earth analogous exoplanets in other solar systems... and the challenge there is ultimately far, far greater than anything we're doing now.

 

[CodeRedR51]

If we can survive in Domes on Mars, a planet which does not naturally sustain human life to any degree, we can surely survive in Domes on Earth even if the planet has otherwise been decimated.

Space exploration for the purposes of surviving the effective destruction of Earth really needs to focus on a viable way to get to Earth analogous exoplanets in other solar systems... and the challenge there is ultimately far, far greater than anything we're doing now.

As I said above, have to start somewhere. Can't wait until the last minute, technology has to evolve through progress. Just look how far SpaceX has come in the last decade. Doing many things people said was not possible. Who knows what they'll be capable of in ~50 years.

 

[RacingFan1]

Mars is very much habitable with the right technologies, and those technologies already exist. The biggest issue is actually getting the stuff there to make it happen, which will be possible with the private space industry. There are other potentially habitable planets as well and we've only begun to scratch the surface of what sort of things are in our solar system. Think about Pluto, until a few years ago, the best image we had of Pluto was a grainy, blurry, blob. Now we have a crystal clear image of it.

While it's certainly a priority to take care of Earth, expanding into the solar system should not be put to the wayside. While other planets aren't going to be habitable in the same way as Earth, humans can certainly make it so they can survive on them. There are other things besides dwindling resources that are cause for concern on Earth too. We're one big volcanic eruption away from needing to leave the planet if we want to survive. The same goes for an asteroid strike too.

Sciencie fiction
Mars is completely out of the habitable zone of the solar system, way too far away from the sun, doesnt' get enough heat. It's too cold.
Also, atmosphere, its too thin, and without any oxygen.

Massive obstacles are totally insurmountable

 

[CodeRedR51]

Sciencie fiction
Mars is completely out of the habitable zone of the solar system, way too far away from the sun, doesnt' get enough heat. It's too cold.
Also, atmosphere, its too thin, and without any oxygen.

Massive obstacles are totally insurmountable

You're wrong.

 

[Joey D]

Sciencie fiction
Mars is completely out of the habitable zone of the solar system, way too far away from the sun, doesnt' get enough heat. It's too cold.
Also, atmosphere, its too thin, and without any oxygen.

Massive obstacles are totally insurmountable

How is it science fiction? It's not, humans can live on other planets with the right technology, technology that exists right now. Like I said, the biggest hurdle is getting the equipment to Mars in order to build since no matter what we use it'll be heavy. Still, there's work going on right now to figure out things like 3D printing habitats on Mars using the materials found on the planet already. It's doable and while it's not totally feasible today, to completely discount it is being short-sighted of the future.

Temps on Mars aren't that dissimilar to some places on Earth that have people living in them either. Near the equator of Mars, temps range from about -100F to 70F. While that's certainly a big swing, it's not out of the realm of possibilities to live there with climate control. Hell, most of us can't even live on Earth without climate control.

 

[TB]

Near the equator of Mars, temps range from about -100F to 70F.

Slightly colder but almost the same total range as an average year in Fargo.

 

[Danoff]

I'm not sure why we're still talking about living on mars being a reason for developing rocketry technology as it has much more near-term immediate uses for studying the Earth's climate. I mentioned some above, and there is also of course the example of earth orbiting observing satellites for mapping weather and climate.

But while we're on the subject, here's a deep dive on what it takes to live on Mars.



It would probably be easier to just create a space station to live on.

 

[MatskiMonk]

As I said above, have to start somewhere. Can't wait until the last minute, technology has to evolve through progress. Just look how far SpaceX has come in the last decade. Doing many things people said was not possible. Who knows what they'll be capable of in ~50 years.

What SpaceX is doing is certainly relevant since we need to get to a point were launches don't take place from the surface of the Earth, so we need a cost effective way of building orbital launch platforms, or launch platforms on other planets, or in orbit of other planets, and ultimately extracting and processing resources on other planets, which means far more frequent trips to space now. Not having to deal with Earths gravity every time we want to launch something will be massive... But, as yet, they've not achieved a distance, or interaction, that we haven't already. Putting someone on Mars will of course do that, but Mars itself isn't really new territory, we first landed a Mars probe 50 years ago.

Trappist-1 is 100,000 years away at the fastest speed anything Man made has achieved. When the corporate space race starts taking a big a swing at that I might be less cynical about space exploration and the survival of mankind.

 

[Joey D]

I'm not sure why we're still talking about living on mars being a reason for developing rocketry technology as it has much more near-term immediate uses for studying the Earth's climate.

My thinking is that the private space industry will make habitation on Mars a reality. While NASA could likely do it, the funding and needs just aren't there. A private company will absolutely figure out a way to live there if it's profitable, and given all the untapped resources, it will likely be profitable. Mars habitation is also an extension of space tourism too. If billionaires are willing to pay boatloads of money for a 10 minute trip into space, they'll likely spend more to go on vacation to Mars or the Moon.

 

[Danoff]

My thinking is that the private space industry will make habitation on Mars a reality. While NASA could likely do it, the funding and needs just aren't there. A private company will absolutely figure out a way to live there if it's profitable, and given all the untapped resources, it will likely be profitable. Mars habitation is also an extension of space tourism too. If billionaires are willing to pay boatloads of money for a 10 minute trip into space, they'll likely spend more to go on vacation to Mars or the Moon.

I don't see it happening privately before NASA does it. We're not even seeing private earth orbits yet. We should see private asteroid mining waaaaaay before private trips to mars. It's phenomenally easier (and still hard) but wildly more profitable.

What SpaceX is doing is certainly relevant since we need to get to a point were launches don't take place from the surface of the Earth, so we need a cost effective way of building orbital launch platforms, or launch platforms on other planets, or in orbit of other planets, and ultimately extracting and processing resources on other planets, which means far more frequent trips to space now. Not having to deal with Earths gravity every time we want to launch something will be massive... But, as yet, they've not achieved a distance, or interaction, that we haven't already. Putting someone on Mars will of course do that, but Mars itself isn't really new territory, we first landed a Mars probe 50 years ago.

Trappist-1 is 100,000 years away at the fastest speed anything Man made has achieved. When the corporate space race starts taking a big a swing at that I might be less cynical about space exploration and the survival of mankind.

Colonizing space within our solar system is easier and makes more sense than colonizing a planet in another solar system (given our current tech trajectory). And, I've only mentioned about 3 times so far in this thread how space exploration is helping us in understanding our planet.

 

[PeterJB]

I'll be honest, unless we can find a way to artificially create magnetospheres, then living on Mars in anything other than climate-controlled domes is not going to be feasible. It doesn't matter how much oxygen-creating moss you can grow on the Martian surface, the sun will strip all that oxygen away into space without anything there to protect it, leaving nice, heavy, carbon dioxide behind. Solve that one and then you can start worrying about raising temperatures and the long-term effects of reduced gravity on the human body, and flora and fauna adjusting to the seasons being twice as long as they're evolved for.

 

[MatskiMonk]

@Danoff my comments are in the context of Earth becoming uninhabitable, and mankind seeking refuge amongst the stars*. We need propulsion that gets us within a useful fraction of the speed of light.. we need tech that is as far removed from what we have now as the Space Shuttle is from a leaf in the wind. I don't say this to disparage the efforts made so far, but simply because of the realisation that human frailty becomes a limiting factor almost infinitely sooner than anything we've done before.

*I mean Earths backyard, because no-one with a "Starship" or a "Starbase" is actually trying to get to another star.

 

[Dotini]

Apparently there are bacteria and fungi that live happily on the external hull of the ISS in low earth orbit.

So if eternal life among the stars is what we really and truly want above all else, then perhaps we should begin the arduous process of converting ourselves into bacterial and fungal lifeforms.

 

[Joey D]

I don't see it happening privately before NASA does it. We're not even seeing private earth orbits yet. We should see private asteroid mining waaaaaay before private trips to mars. It's phenomenally easier (and still hard) but wildly more profitable.

That's probably a good point with the asteroid mining. But I really do think the private space industry will make a push towards interplanetary tourism. Elon Musk seems pretty hellbent on getting to Mars before he dies so I could see him just continuing to throw money at it until it happens. Assuming it's successful, I'm sure there won't be any shortage of people willing to pay for the ride there.

If anything it'll help fund the science.

 

[CodeRedR51]

 

[RacingFan1]

You're wrong.

NASA is wrong too then

NASA Says Life On Mars Is Currently Impossible

NASA has said that based on the current technology levels on planet Earth, life on Mars is completely impossible.

www.eteknix.com

How is it science fiction? It's not, humans can live on other planets with the right technology, technology that exists right now. Like I said, the biggest hurdle is getting the equipment to Mars in order to build since no matter what we use it'll be heavy. Still, there's work going on right now to figure out things like 3D printing habitats on Mars using the materials found on the planet already. It's doable and while it's not totally feasible today, to completely discount it is being short-sighted of the future.

Temps on Mars aren't that dissimilar to some places on Earth that have people living in them either. Near the equator of Mars, temps range from about -100F to 70F. While that's certainly a big swing, it's not out of the realm of possibilities to live there with climate control. Hell, most of us can't even live on Earth without climate control.

Temperature aside... (which is a big con)... What about the fact there is no oxygen, no fertile soil, and barely any water on it? Really, you guys might have watched too many movies and too little serious documentaries.

 

[CodeRedR51]

NASA is wrong too then

NASA Says Life On Mars Is Currently Impossible

NASA has said that based on the current technology levels on planet Earth, life on Mars is completely impossible.

www.eteknix.com

Temperature aside... (which is a big con)... What about the fact there is no oxygen, no fertile soil, and barely any water on it? Really, you guys might have watched too many movies and too little serious documentaries.

And I think you need a sense of adventure.

 

[RacingFan1]

And I think you need a sense of adventure.

Realistic adventure that is... I have it.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Jonestown, Mars.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Realistic adventure that is... I have it.

Well I will enjoy watching these companies prove you wrong.

 

[Joey D]

Temperature aside... (which is a big con)... What about the fact there is no oxygen, no fertile soil, and barely any water on it? Really, you guys might have watched too many movies and too little serious documentaries.

Those living on Mars won't be doing so outside of a controlled environment. They're not just going to set down and put up a house. There will likely be several unmanned missions that deliver equipment to the planet and from there, people will start putting together habitats while supported by something like an orbiting space station.

Both oxygen and water are pretty straightforward since we do that now on the ISS. Oxygen is created using electrolysis and the water is recycled from wastewater, urine, and even sweat. It's not like they're lugging up a tanker full of water to the ISS all the time so they need to be able to reuse what they have.

Fertile soil could be a challenge, but we haven't tested whether or not things can grow in Martian soil. They might be able to with adequate water and climate. Hopefully, by the end of the decade, we will know if this can happen or not. If it can't, I'm sure people much smarter than you or I have a way to change the composition of Martian soil.

You seem to think I'm implying this is going to happen next year or something. It's not, but it's likely to happen in the future as technologies improve. We could build a habitat on Mars right now if we wanted to, but it would require a staggering amount of money to do it.

 

[CodeRedR51]

This mission was to launch on NASA's SLS at a whopping price of over $2 billion. Unfortunately it's a fully expendable mission, no boosters will be recovered.

 

[Dotini]

From today's edition of Spaceweather.com:

WAITING FOR THE CME: A CME expected to sideswipe Earth's magnetic field on July 23rd did not arrive on time. It might have missed, or it may yet deliver a glancing blow later today. There is a slight chance of G1-classgeomagnetic storms in response to a tardy arrival on July 24th. Aurora alerts:SMS Text.

LONG DURATION SOLAR FLARE: Today began with an explosion on the sun. Minutes after UT midnight, sunspot AR2849 erupted, producing a long-duration C4-class flare. NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory recorded the ultraviolet flash:

An hour-long pulse of X-rays and ultraviolet radiation ionized the top of Earth's atmosphere, disrupting the usual propagation of radio waves over the Pacific Ocean. Mariners, aviators, and ham radio operators may have noticed sudden drops in signal strength at frequencies below 20 MHz: blackout map.

The explosion also hurled a CME into space: movie. The cloud does not appear to be heading for Earth. Solar flare alerts: SMS Text.

 

[RacingFan1]

Well I will enjoy watching these companies prove you wrong.

We will be both long dead if they ever eventually do colonize mars. But then... Such colonization will likely be very limited...

Those living on Mars won't be doing so outside of a controlled environment. They're not just going to set down and put up a house. There will likely be several unmanned missions that deliver equipment to the planet and from there, people will start putting together habitats while supported by something like an orbiting space station.

Both oxygen and water are pretty straightforward since we do that now on the ISS. Oxygen is created using electrolysis and the water is recycled from wastewater, urine, and even sweat. It's not like they're lugging up a tanker full of water to the ISS all the time so they need to be able to reuse what they have.

Fertile soil could be a challenge, but we haven't tested whether or not things can grow in Martian soil. They might be able to with adequate water and climate. Hopefully, by the end of the decade, we will know if this can happen or not. If it can't, I'm sure people much smarter than you or I have a way to change the composition of Martian soil.

You seem to think I'm implying this is going to happen next year or something. It's not, but it's likely to happen in the future as technologies improve. We could build a habitat on Mars right now if we wanted to, but it would require a staggering amount of money to do it.

If anything, mankind will be limited to "enclosed stations" on Mars, which has obviously nothing to do with actually populating the planet and the mankind moving from one planet to another. It's the same as nothing in this regard.
Something that could look like this:

Geologists dig into question of Martian soil fertility

They simulated soil conditions to see if plants can grow on Mars.

news.uga.edu

 

[Joey D]

If anything, mankind will be limited to "enclosed stations" on Mars, which has obviously nothing to do with actually populating the planet and the mankind moving from one planet to another. It's the same as nothing in this regard.

How else would humans live on other planets in the solar system if it's wasn't for enclosed habitats? This is what I was talking about when I said we could colonize Mars. While terraforming is a thing, the sheer amount of effort to do that to Mars wouldn't really be productive until technology greatly improves.