Until speed test comes out, the only thing we can do is tune a car to the best of our ability and see what other different cars they seem to run with. I think until speed test comes out for GT6, we will only have an idea as to which cars are faster than others. You can never get a absolutely dead even tree, but, being the ghost when Shells and epic were racing, they looked like they launched at the same time, yes, Epic might have treed shells or vice versa, but the results every time were identical, they swapped cars and again, the results were what was predicted. Epic and Shells are by no means "rude" or slow, they are far from it, they are extremely experienced, knowledgeable tuners, so to call them slow, or bad tuners, or indeed rude, is pointless. Until speed test comes out, some people will think the Venti runs with the Speed 12, and some people will think the opposite, but from what I've seen first hand, I think Shells and Epic are the ones to go with on this one, no offense to the others. But until speed teat comes out, we will just have to wait and see.