Spied! Saleen developing all-new sports car

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If you ask me. Having any of those cars in my garage would be nice.
 
YSSMAN
1) The Enzo is awesome, how dare you! Sure, it may be ugly and far too expensive for what it can do (not much these days), but it is still a milestone car for the automotive world. And I, personally, like it.

2) The CCX is a bit of backyard engineering with some polish, and nothing else. Instead of seeing the wood glue on the doors like you would with the Aero, they take the time to clean it up. They're good cars, don't get me wrong, but I'd prefer something different.

3) As far as I'm concerned, the MC12 and the F40 will remain two of my most-favorite supercars. The S7 is beaten only by the Mosler when it comes to American models, and should I actually have the money to go out and buy something with similar performance... I'd have a hard time not considering the SLR 772 as the most-viable option.

But we all know I'd buy the Mosler just because it has a small-block.
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The MC12 is a better car than the Enzo in almost every way minus streetability--rear visibility. I still stand behind my opinion on the Enzo.

*McLaren*
How on earth did you come to this conclusion? Neither car have been tested on the same track, and it's pretty much a good conclusion the Enzo would be faster.

The CCX is 1 second behind the Enzo at Bedford Autodrome West Circuit. It is not just fast in a straight line.
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I came to the conclusion on the Enzo due to several factors--one major one being its overrated. Its an overpriced Italian carbon fibre box. If I'm going to spend $650,000-800,000 on a car it better have performance leading ALL of its competition as well as the cheaper non-direct competition. I mean the ZO6 is right on its heels every step of the way for pennies compared to the Enzo pricetag--yes I used the ZO6 in this arguement. You can and will probably make the arguement that the ZO6 beats the S7 as well--maybe maybe not. The S7 (which IS better than the Enzo) does it for less than the Enzo--and maintaining a dignified look. That brings me to the superficial, the Enzo is the second ugliest car this decade behind the 612/599. FUGLY with a capital F. At least with your hundreds of thousands of monitary units the CCX, Saleen, Veyron, and the MC12 looks like sex on wheels. The Enzo just makes me vomit. Good technology and a great soundtrack are the only positives on that car--and those are overshadowed by its hideous pricetag and looks. The F40 was and is still the ultimate Ferrari and always will be.

And the CCX is well known for being too twitchy at the limit--a "good handling car" can't have that stigma attached to it. A good handling car needs to be at least a bit controllable at the limit. Ask the Stig, he'll tell you all about the CCX. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying the CCX is rubbish because it simply isn't. Its just not a car I'd want to take around a track being so skiddish. I drove a car like that once (old 911--as in 80's old) and it was not all that fun when I pushed it. Slides are one thing, bad twitchy rear-end slides are another.
 
the razgriz
If you can get an S7 up to 250mph, than i will shut up about the ultimate aero.
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No one was saying you shouldn't like the Ultimate Aero, but it has no place being compared to this new Saleen. They're different level cars performance wise, price wise and market wise.

JCE
I came to the conclusion on the Enzo due to several factors--one major one being its overrated. Its an overpriced Italian carbon fibre box. If I'm going to spend $650,000-800,000 on a car it better have performance leading ALL of its competition as well as the cheaper non-direct competition.
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When it first arrived it did beat all the competition on a track. When magazines and testers finally got hold of Enzo's to drive without any Ferrari restrictions it beat all it's competition. All the supercars that are faster than it are not only more powerful but they are also newer. Yes it was overpriced, but lets be honest here, people will pay moer for a Ferrari badge just like people will pay more Nike trainers. The only difference is the level of spending.

I mean the ZO6 is right on its heels every step of the way for pennies compared to the Enzo pricetag--yes I used the ZO6 in this arguement.
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The Z06 is well off the pace of the Enzo on a track. I haven't compared straight line times but I expect the Z06 might not be a mile off there, but on a track it doesn't stand a chance.

The S7 (which IS better than the Enzo) does it for less than the Enzo--and maintaining a dignified look. That brings me to the superficial, the Enzo is the second ugliest car this decade behind the 612/599. FUGLY with a capital F.
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Looks are personal, the Enzo is appealing to some in it's own way, personally I think the Saleen S7 is hideous from any angle but the front. There are angles I like the Enzo and there are angles I don't, but after seeing one in person I can appreaciate the design regardless. Ofcourse I'm not saying you should like the Enzo, or give it credit for the way it looks in any way at all, it's 100% personal to you that don't like it. But there are people who do like it out there and there are people who think the S7 is ugly, like me.

At least with your hundreds of thousands of monitary units the CCX, Saleen, Veyron, and the MC12 looks like sex on wheels. The Enzo just makes me vomit. Good technology and a great soundtrack are the only positives on that car--and those are overshadowed by its hideous pricetag and looks. The F40 was and is still the ultimate Ferrari and always will be.
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As I said befomre, looks are subjective, just because you really don't like the looks of the Enzo doesn't mean it's worse than other cars. Ofcourse looks come into it, but only on a personal level and nothing more. As for the F40, the F40 was immense and is still amazing today.

And the CCX is well known for being too twitchy at the limit--a "good handling car" can't have that stigma attached to it. A good handling car needs to be at least a bit controllable at the limit. Ask the Stig, he'll tell you all about the CCX. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying the CCX is rubbish because it simply isn't. Its just not a car I'd want to take around a track being so skiddish. I drove a car like that once (old 911--as in 80's old) and it was not all that fun when I pushed it. Slides are one thing, bad twitchy rear-end slides are another.
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You can get the CCX with or without a rear wing, if you get it without you'll hit that 240+ top speed the car has. If you get it with then you won;t go as fast but you'll stick the road a hell of a lot better. There's nothing to suggest that with the wing it's any harder to drive than an S7 TT with the wing, which is what it had when it beat the Enzo's track time on TopGear. Which may I remind you is a track where the fastest laps tend to go to the track models with a good -60 but are ultimately quick because of their cornering speeds. A quick but poor handling car will lose plenty of seconds on the TopGear tracks corners.

By all means hate the Enzo all you want, but don't be saying things like the Z06 is hot on it's heels, beacuse it simply isn't. Nor is the price argument likely to deter a man who makes £5 million a year or more, which lets face it are what most top level new supercar owners are probably earning.
 
What I want to know JCE (since Dave said everything quite nicely.👍 ), is how do you know the Enzo isn't better than the Saleen?

The only thing we have to go on are looks and 0-60s. Lap wise though, no one has even got a professional time for a S7 because Saleen won't give them out. Despite this, what the Ferrari Enzo has accomplished and the way it has gone around tracks makes it a valuable hypothesis that the Enzo would more than likely be the faster of the two vehicles. There's just so much more known about it on a track, enough to know it's ungodly fast. What exactly do we have that says Saleen's S7 can do the same? QTR mile times? 0-60? None of these help theorize just how fast it is on a race track.

However, there is one thing that shows the Saleen is not better than the Enzo in everything. 0-60, shows the Enzo being quite a bit faster, and on a QTR mile straight, the Enzo is .6 seconds faster. Note that this against the now-dead Twin Turbo.
 
Dave A
No one was saying you shouldn't like the Ultimate Aero, but it has no place being compared to this new Saleen. They're different level cars performance wise, price wise and market wise.

When it first arrived it did beat all the competition on a track. When magazines and testers finally got hold of Enzo's to drive without any Ferrari restrictions it beat all it's competition. All the supercars that are faster than it are not only more powerful but they are also newer. Yes it was overpriced, but lets be honest here, people will pay moer for a Ferrari badge just like people will pay more Nike trainers. The only difference is the level of spending.

The Z06 is well off the pace of the Enzo on a track. I haven't compared straight line times but I expect the Z06 might not be a mile off there, but on a track it doesn't stand a chance.

Looks are personal, the Enzo is appealing to some in it's own way, personally I think the Saleen S7 is hideous from any angle but the front. There are angles I like the Enzo and there are angles I don't, but after seeing one in person I can appreaciate the design regardless. Ofcourse I'm not saying you should like the Enzo, or give it credit for the way it looks in any way at all, it's 100% personal to you that don't like it. But there are people who do like it out there and there are people who think the S7 is ugly, like me.

As I said befomre, looks are subjective, just because you really don't like the looks of the Enzo doesn't mean it's worse than other cars. Ofcourse looks come into it, but only on a personal level and nothing more. As for the F40, the F40 was immense and is still amazing today.

You can get the CCX with or without a rear wing, if you get it without you'll hit that 240+ top speed the car has. If you get it with then you won;t go as fast but you'll stick the road a hell of a lot better. There's nothing to suggest that with the wing it's any harder to drive than an S7 TT with the wing, which is what it had when it beat the Enzo's track time on TopGear. Which may I remind you is a track where the fastest laps tend to go to the track models with a good -60 but are ultimately quick because of their cornering speeds. A quick but poor handling car will lose plenty of seconds on the TopGear tracks corners.

By all means hate the Enzo all you want, but don't be saying things like the Z06 is hot on it's heels, beacuse it simply isn't. Nor is the price argument likely to deter a man who makes £5 million a year or more, which lets face it are what most top level new supercar owners are probably earning.
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Thanks for the reply. As long as we're agreed to disagree I think we can move on. 👍

*McLaren*
What I want to know JCE (since Dave said everything quite nicely.👍 ), is how do you know the Enzo isn't better than the Saleen?

The only thing we have to go on are looks and 0-60s. Lap wise though, no one has even got a professional time for a S7 because Saleen won't give them out. Despite this, what the Ferrari Enzo has accomplished and the way it has gone around tracks makes it a valuable hypothesis that the Enzo would more than likely be the faster of the two vehicles. There's just so much more known about it on a track, enough to know it's ungodly fast. What exactly do we have that says Saleen's S7 can do the same? QTR mile times? 0-60? None of these help theorize just how fast it is on a race track.

However, there is one thing that shows the Saleen is not better than the Enzo in everything. 0-60, shows the Enzo being quite a bit faster, and on a QTR mile straight, the Enzo is .6 seconds faster. Note that this against the now-dead Twin Turbo.
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The Enzo was designed for the street in mind, the Saleen was designed to be a race car first only with a roadcar afterwards. You say how do we know the Enzo isn't faster..? How do we know the S7 isn't faster? And how do we know on equal ground+weather+climate that the S7 or in its TT trim isn't much faster? You don't. This is why 0-60 and ¼ mi numbers are meaningless unless done at the same time on the same suface in the same weather and by the same SKILLED driver who is proficiant in each car's powerband for proper acurate numbers.

And who cares about the power numbers anyway, a car is a car is a car. I don't care if the Enzo has 400bhp and does the same numbers or if the Mosler has 1200bhp--track numbers (not Dunsfold) is what I was concerned with--not how much power it has. And I'd like web links of the concrete evidence on the ZO6 versus Enzo by independant drivers and not auto magazines/shows. 0-60 and ¼ mi times are meaningless to me if we are discussing track times. All these cars in question are probably on equal ground in terms of real world times--it comes down to the driver most likely.

But alas, I'm going to stop this arguement right here because I along with some of the others here turned this into somesort of offtopic monster.

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So, is Saleen making a smaller cheaper S7? Would it be a good thing? Will Ford get upset if they bypass them directly? Will it be faster than its rivals? Will TopGear test it? Will the world end? These and more subjects can be seen at the same Bat time on the same Bat channel.

Discuss.
 
I can agree to dissagree on the opinionated bits, but the Z06 was 3 seconds slower than the Enzo on the TopGear track and both were in the dry and by the same driver. I've not seen anything to suggest the Z06 is capable of keeping up with the Enzo and the claim it could was yours to prove ;). Either way a debate is a debate and nothing more 👍.

But yeah, this new Saleen is interesting, I don't think Ford are in any position to be annoyed. Maybe if the Ford GT was still in production they might not like the idea, but at the moment I can't tihnk of any reason for them to be bothered. Unless they are planning a new supercar of their own.
 
Dave A
Maybe if the Ford GT was still in production they might not like the idea, but at the moment I can't tihnk of any reason for them to be bothered. Unless they are planning a new supercar of their own.
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Which begs the question will Saleen be Ford's new "supercar premium" brand? If Ford of all companies comes out with another supercar which was designed and built by Saleen (or SVT) how would the public react? Would they react warmly since the Ford GT was a epic success? Or would the general public react negatively?
 
JCE
The Enzo was designed for the street in mind, the Saleen was designed to be a race car first only with a roadcar afterwards.
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This doesn't really mean anything. The Enzo may have been developed to be driven on the street, but nearly every part that contributes to its performance derived from Formula 1 technology. The S7 can be designed as a race car all day as you please, but the Enzo is the one at the end of the day running race car-derived performance.
You say how do we know the Enzo isn't faster..? How do we know the S7 isn't faster? And how do we know on equal ground+weather+climate that the S7 or in its TT trim isn't much faster? You don't.
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There's no way to get this kind of information these days, but the reason people can easily guess is the Enzo is faster is because of the benchmarks it set. The car has no problem running around modern days cars. The Saleen, on the other, doesn't. From the few reviews actually done on this car, it's easily been praised for speed, but choppy when it comes to the car's suspension.
This is why 0-60 and ¼ mi numbers are meaningless unless done at the same time on the same suface in the same weather and by the same SKILLED driver who is proficiant in each car's powerband for proper acurate numbers.
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Well, unforunately, no one has these numbers for both cars from the same test. You have to make do with what's provided.
And who cares about the power numbers anyway, a car is a car is a car. I don't care if the Enzo has 400bhp and does the same numbers or if the Mosler has 1200bhp--track numbers (not Dunsfold) is what I was concerned with--not how much power it has.
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Who brought up numbers? The S7 TT is the one pushing the 90 extra horses, either way.
So, is Saleen making a smaller cheaper S7? Would it be a good thing? Will Ford get upset if they bypass them directly? Will it be faster than its rivals? Will TopGear test it? Will the world end? These and more subjects can be seen at the same Bat time on the same Bat channel.

Discuss.
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Why would Ford care? The only thing Ford gives them are Mustangs for Ford to sell on their own lots, and it's not like these S302s or whatever compete with any other Mustang besides the GT500. Besides that, Ford doesn't make anything that competes with this. The GT is gone, and even with that car, Saleen were the ones assembling it, not Ford.
 
100,000$ is still pretty bad.

Good catch though, I just took it off another forum. Sorry.
 
Word up kids!

00_s5sraptor.jpg


Autoblog
Though Saleen won't be officially unveiling its new supercar, the S5S Raptor, on stage until tomorrow, we've got pics and details for you now. Though slated to slot below the hardcore S7 in Saleen's lineup, the S5S Raptor looks no less the part of a high-powered high-performance sports car. It's powered by a supercharged 5.0L engine mounted amidships producing around 650 horsepower and 630 lb-ft. of churn on a steady diet of E85 ethanol.

Developed as a collaboration between Saleen and specialty builder ASC -- both of which are owned by the same private equity firm -- the car is plenty of tech and a bit of throwback. The aluminum chassis 2-seater can get from 0-60 in a supercar-standard 3.2 seconds. When it's time to stop, six-pot calipers hidden by 20-inch wheels clamp down on 15-inch rotors up front. The retro bit: a six-speed manual gearbox. A paddle-shifting sequential is also in the works and may be ready when the car goes into production in 2010. Compared to the S7, the S5S is another relative domestic bargain at only $185,000.
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So, it blows the doors off the F430 for less money, and approaches what used to be Enzo territory? I believe this may even be faster than the S7...

I'm all for it. Absolutely awesome!
 
I want one. Will go good with the other "low end" supercars I plan on getting when I make it big :p
 
Looks like a new NSX, HSC, Garaiya, and a Mitsubishi Eclipse all in one... but the end result is pleasing, even if it looks more Japanese than American.
 
That thing looks absolutely awesome. I like all aspects of it, except the too even line width on the sill as it reaches back. Going by that shot alone, I'm really excited, but definitely not in yellow.
 
Beautiful. 👍
 
Manual 6 speed gearbox!

Me want!!! :crazy:
 
superberkut
Looks like a new NSX, HSC, Garaiya, and a Mitsubishi Eclipse all in one... but the end result is pleasing, even if it looks more Japanese than American.
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I was thinking the same thing - it reminds me of the NSX, but looks eons better than anything Honda has come up with as a replacement.

If Saleen locks the design for the production car looking like that, they will have an asthetic masterpiece to sell. Well, it wouldn't have an revolutionary design, but it still looks fantastic. And in it's price range, that's certainly important if Saleen hopes to sell these into the triple-digits.
 
Looks bloody fantastic! I want one. And its using the Boss 302...mmmm that's sexy.
 
That looks nice, if it goes anything like they say it will then it has the potential to be a class leader or up there at least. I definitly like the look of it though.
 
YSSMAN
Word up kids!

00_s5sraptor.jpg




So, it blows the doors off the F430 for less money, and approaches what used to be Enzo territory? I believe this may even be faster than the S7...

I'm all for it. Absolutely awesome!
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The F430 is $173,019 base. ;)

And as awesome as it looks, I'm more interested in seeing if Saleen will actually allow comparisons. They baby'd the S7 from almost every magazine comparison, so it was impossible to tell just how competitive it was.
 
*McLaren*
The F430 is $173,019 base. ;)
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Why did I think it was somewhere around $200K? Or am I thinking of the Gallardo?
 
YSSMAN
Why did I think it was somewhere around $200K? Or am I thinking of the Gallardo?
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Gallardo's $186,000. You might be thinking $200,000 because once you actually put some nice options on the F430, the price goes up.
 
That must be it. I can't seem to recall a single time I've seen the price (on either) below $200K.

*oh well*

Not like you'd be able to get one for MSRP anyway...
 
YSSMAN
That must be it. I can't seem to recall a single time I've seen the price (on either) below $200K.

*oh well*

Not like you'd be able to get one for MSRP anyway...
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Well, at this point in time, no one can get a F430 new. ;)

Ferrari's planning the successor, and the waiting years have been pushed to the point where the last F430s should roll out when the successor is ready to go on sale.
 
*McLaren*
You might be thinking $200,000 because once you actually put some nice options on the F430, the price goes up.
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Once you put WA tax and licensing on it, the cost is $200,000.
 
More pics.

Damn, that’s a cool car. That’s exactly what a supercar should look like.
 
That is a radical looking car. I like the Zonda levels of "differentness" on it.. It definitely looks very fast. Good to see it has the numbers to back it up too.

I really love the rear.

08saleens5sliveql5.jpg
 
Kinda been avoiding this thread, but to see this car...It really is something else. I love that thin taillight...It's kind of early '90s, really cool.

In fact, It really reminds me of one '90s car in particular...

nsx.jpg
 
The car looks like rubbish. I sincerely don't know why, but it just looks kind of old.

👎 to Saleen

EDIT: Oh my Jesus! I was so wrong! 👍👍 to Saleen!

EDIT: I dont know if I like it or not. It's so hard to decide!! :nervous:
 
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