Sport modes biggest failing for the slow to average driver.

[baldgye]

Erm, excuse me!! This isn't crying, this is pointing out a blatantly obvious flaw in a system that has one purpose; to match players of equal rank and ability. 1340 races is not crying or a statement of withdrawing my interest altogether in the game. If people can moan on for months about exhaust flames that don't affect the game then this, a genuine fault, deserves PD's attention.

The flaw in the system isn't anything to do with how it matches, but from the size of the player base.

Crying maybe a little harsh, as there is a valid point that players interest is going to wane if every race consists of lapping by themselves and finishing mid pack, likewise yesterday I joined race A at 6 o clock something (Dr A Sr S) after just improving my qualifying to a top 60 position, I expected to be matched with other rated DR A’s but instead of being mid pack I thought I’d be 4-6th, what ended happening was I was in a room with all others rated as B/S and my pace at nearly a second quicker. Suffice to say my race involved me getting a 1 sec lead after the first corner and then not seeing another car for the entire race.

Perhaps, but no match making system is perfect, in Starcraft 2 I've been (as a Diamond player (which is middle of the ranking system pretty much)) matched against Grand Masters (top 0.002% of each region) on a handful of occasions.
The problem with GT Sport is it's total and abject failure to make Sport mode attractive to the vast majority of players and then finding reasons for them to continue to race. This is a problem that can be solved, hell if Blizzard can make Sc2 1v1 ladder fun then anything's possible!

 

[Krypton78]

Only advice I can give you is to take some points off your SR. Drop it to A. 99 SR seems to match with only other SR 99 people. Most D level drivers struggle to keep the car between the lines and they can't avoid contact. You will easily make it to DR B with that pace.

Oh dude be carefull with that advice. Since patch 1.23 its very hard to get SR back once it droped down.

 

[JoeDaSnow]

The matchmaking system in Sport Mode is absolutely bland and unfair. This one has dismally failed me completely and it completely stinks. May this go to hell along with Sport Mode.

 

[rono_thomas]

The problem with GT Sport is it's total and abject failure to make Sport mode attractive to the vast majority of players and then finding reasons for them to continue to race.

And why do PD move so slowly?

Have they realised that its never going to work like they hoped, and are not putting resources in to attempt to fix the problem?

 

[baldgye]

And why do PD move so slowly?

Have they realised that its never going to work like they hoped, and are not putting resources in to attempt to fix the problem?

I have no idea how fast or slow they are moving, or why they are doing what they do. I also don't understand why GT Sport, includes non-racing, imaginary cars and fictional tracks. PD's total refusal to interact with the community is the developers biggest failing and IMO why Sport mode is suffering from such poor participation.

The whole structure of GT Sport is pretty poor to build up incentive to play Sport mode though, so it's not very easy to solve. For example, other games will include bonuses for playing X number of games and have XP bars etc... these can unlock skins for characters/units etc or they offer voice overs for multi-player only.
These could, kind of be incorporated into GT Sport, but not in a way that really changes the game or impacts causal players.

That said, the move to making 'daily' races weekly, could be something they are trying to try and entice more causal players to give it a go. In theory they can practice a track offline and then after a few days, jump online.

 

[Boedefeld]

That’s sport modes biggest failing.

The vast majority of GTS players do not progress with more than 20 races.

Why is it the games fault if players aren't that interested in online racing? It's a niche hobby already. You can't force people to play GTS online. That fault lies on the user base, not on PD.

I'd also say that after 20 years of playing Gran Turismo, though there is room to improve, I'm aware of my limitations... with more practice I could improve my pace a little I'm sure, but that doesn't translate into suitable levels of racecraft to succeed in races. The issue here isn't about being good enough to win, it's about the game offering a structure that delivers gameplay that is rewarding - even if the final results aren't.

As it stands, sport mode is tedious and unrewarding to me. Even if they fixed this issue, it still has plenty of others, so I'm unlikely to increase my lowly tally of 17 races by much at all anyway, but I do agree with Lebowski's point.

And what would your improvements be then?
And of course it is unrewarding. If you don't put in the work to feel and be rewarded don't expect everything to be handed to you on silver platter.

 

[MatskiMonk]

And what would your improvements be then?

I'd chuck any element of Sport mode that isn't the FIA races in the bin and start again with a different approach entirely. The problem with online gaming is that a developer relinquishes control over the players experience and puts it in the hands of other players - so making 'improvements' is highly dependent on things out of their control.

And of course it is unrewarding. If you don't put in the work to feel and be rewarded don't expect everything to be handed to you on silver platter.

What have I asked for on a Silver platter? Do you think I'm complaining because I can't win? I have an issue with it because Sport mode offers limited gameplay options, and a much slower pace than offline, and doesn't deliver anything (for me) back in return. Other peoples mileage may vary, but to me, wasting a couple of hours playing a handful of races on a car/track combo that might not be to my taste in return for limited actual racing (and little in-game reward which I think should be addressed for the sake of those that do play sport mode) isn't a rewarding experience - irrespective of whether I win or come last - if I've had a close race for 8th and bin it on the last bend and come last, that's far better than starting 10th, and finishing 10th, having not passed or been passed by any other cars after the first lap.

 

[baldgye]

The problem with online gaming is that a developer relinquishes control over the players experience and puts it in the hands of other players - so making 'improvements' is highly dependent on things out of their control.

What do you mean?

 

[kjeldsen]

Why is it the games fault if players aren't that interested in online racing? It's a niche hobby already. You can't force people to play GTS online. That fault lies on the user base, not on PD.



And what would your improvements be then?
And of course it is unrewarding. If you don't put in the work to feel and be rewarded don't expect everything to be handed to you on silver platter.

I don't think anyone is asking to be handed a victory on a silver plate.

A field that spreads over 15 seconds in qualifying is often only going to have 2 potential winners. The question is why the races are like this. To few playing or by design.

 

[viper al]

I would like to see a little experimentation on PD'S part. Such as daily/weekly races dedicated to a specific DR/SR rating . I see DR/SR limits all the time in the lobbies.Just a thought 💡

 

[MatskiMonk]

What do you mean?

Basically, the effectiveness of any structure they put in is dependent on it's popularity with the player base, and the quality of the player base. These are not variables they have to worry about in offline play. In terms of the OP, the problem is either bad algorithms, or lack of suitable players.... the former is under their control, the latter isn't.

 

[baldgye]

Basically, the effectiveness of any structure they put in is dependent on it's popularity with the player base, and the quality of the player base. These are not variables they have to worry about in offline play. In terms of the OP, the problem is either bad algorithms, or lack of suitable players.... the former is under their control, the latter isn't.

I don't agree.
The game sold over 5 million copies, 75% of which haven't touched Sport mode, the concept the game is supposedly based around. I'd call that a pretty massive failure on PD's part to either entice or guide players to the games core feature.
Moreover, after the game launched with what is essentially the game now, they patched in a career mode that doesn't have anything to do with the concept of the actual game.
So now you have a forced online game (because you still can't save offline), with a bolted on career mode that fails to replicate career modes of past games (which have always done a bad job of trying to mimic an actual racing drivers career) and then an online mode that bares basically no relation to anything else in the game. Further more this is 'locked' behind watching two idiotic YouTube videos that teach you nothing and instead waffle on about making yourself look good.

PD have made no attempt to try and push players towards Sport mode and in fact have given players not immediately enticed by it even more things and reasons not to bother. This, is there fundamental failure.

I'll compare it to Starcraft 2, because that too suffered with it's online support for 1v1. Especially, because, fundamentally the game is really ****ing hard and if you loose, it's because you did a bad job or played worse than your opponent. You can't hide, you loose, your fault. People are put off by that and because the match-making is designed so that you only win just over half your games. This creates a pretty negative environment and put the majority of players off.
Yet, though Blizzard changing things up with the design of the game, maps and importantly giving players reasons to invest time in getting better and giving them ways to customise their experience and profile.

So to me, the reason players don't partake in Sport mode, isn't because of some nebulous collection of reasons that PD can't control. It's because they have done a horrible job of funnelling players there and giving them a reason to play/try it and then stick with it.

 

[rono_thomas]

Why is it the games fault if players aren't that interested in online racing? It's a niche hobby already. You can't force people to play GTS online. That fault lies on the user base, not on PD.

That is exactly what PD tried to do, if it didn’t work the blame is entirely on PD.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I'm pretty sure this change to Weekly races totally killed their usage numbers and that the wide range in the DR match making is the result of this. I'm DR B and after work (4pm CST) I'm sandwiched between A+ and D drivers, all with SR S ratings. This usually wasn't the case before and I usually would have been in a massive line up of DR B cars with 1 or 2 , DR S and DR C drivers in the front and back.

 

[PirovacBoy]

If the game can't match you with D-S ranked players, that's probably because there aren't enough online,

Exactly this. It has nothing to do if someone is slower.
Take me as an example. A while ago I was consistently matched with D‘s although being A+. It’s the same situation just the opposite but a much worse one imo.
As a D ranked driver in a stronger Lobby you can only Win.
The other way around it’s a nightmare and a boring one too.

 

[Veinz]

There probably aren't a lot of people in your ranking playing at the exact time when you are, so you get matched with other ranks.

If I play early in the morning, the lobby is nowhere near as evenly matched as the evening in terms of DR/SR ranks.

 

[Lebowski]

I'm pretty sure this change to Weekly races totally killed their usage numbers and that the wide range in the DR match making is the result of this. I'm DR B and after work (4pm CST) I'm sandwiched between A+ and D drivers, all with SR S ratings. This usually wasn't the case before and I usually would have been in a massive line up of DR B cars with 1 or 2 , DR S and DR C drivers in the front and back.

It's been the same from the start, regardless of when it was weekly, then daily and now back to weekly again.

 

[Lebowski]

Exactly this. It has nothing to do if someone is slower.
Take me as an example. A while ago I was consistently matched with D‘s although being A+. It’s the same situation just the opposite but a much worse one imo.
As a D ranked driver in a stronger Lobby you can only Win.
The other way around it’s a nightmare and a boring one too.

Are you nuts?! So you're suggesting that me, a D ranked driver in a room full of guys like you who are usually about 5 seconds a lap faster means i can only win?!! You need to get on stage pal, the acts coming along a treat!

 

[rono_thomas]

I'm pretty sure this change to Weekly races totally killed their usage numbers and that the wide range in the DR match making is the result of this. I'm DR B and after work (4pm CST) I'm sandwiched between A+ and D drivers, all with SR S ratings. This usually wasn't the case before and I usually would have been in a massive line up of DR B cars with 1 or 2 , DR S and DR C drivers in the front and back.

Pretty sure you can’t be, an impression maybe.

 

[willbegone]

and this is why I don't race online

 

[kjeldsen]

and this is why I don't race online

You are missing out dude..

Look a race for 10th place.. it is still fun!

 

[VFOURMAX1]

It's been the same from the start, regardless of when it was weekly, then daily and now back to weekly again.

This has been a problem since the beginning for most mid level racers. This is not the first time this has been discussed by a long shot.

I even did an unscientific test months ago where I intentionally ran a Q lap 2 seconds a lap slower than I was capable of and ran several races then qualified at a 2 seconds a lap faster pace and there was no difference in the 10th-16th starting position as I was just placed in lobbies with even faster racers as I advanced my lap time. This was done during prime time as a DR B, SR S ranking.

Seems that I should have gained some positions as far as starting in the top 5 of the lobbies I was racing in rather than be placed in the same grid filling starting positions just in faster lobbies.

So I do know for a fact in some cases that going faster does not always improve where you may start from.

I really think PD dropped the ball on the matching for the sport racing in many cases and it has caused some players to abandon that aspect of the game.

No one is asking for anything but to be matched with racers that run a similar pace to what they run when entering an online race. Not everyone cares about being at the pointed end of the spear pace wise and runs at a pace they find to be fun.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Are you nuts?! So you're suggesting that me, a D ranked driver in a room full of guys like you who are usually about 5 seconds a lap faster means i can only win?!! You need to get on stage pal, the acts coming along a treat!

Yes I absolutely mean it serious, Nuts or not Nuts .
Dude, When I say you can only win it’s not only about getting 1st, it’s about driving with the fast people is an experience of its own.
It’s priceless. I had to learn it the hard way too.
But racing around faster paced people is what made me a better driver. You‘ll only learn and improve if racing faster people.
If u don’t care about improving than forget what I said

 

[Lebowski]

Yes I absolutely mean it serious, Nuts or not Nuts .
Dude, When I say you can only win it’s not only about getting 1st, it’s about driving with the fast people is an experience of its own.
It’s priceless. I had to learn it the hard way too.
But racing around faster paced people is what made me a better driver. You‘ll only learn and improve if racing faster people.
If u don’t care about improving than forget what I said

But you dont get to race with faster people. You might share the same track with them but never the same part on the same lap. By the end of lap 1 someone of my abillity and rank is usually 10 seconds down already. Its not about learning and improving, im pretty sure ive already pointed out im at my peak and nothing will ever improve that. Sugar coat it as much as you want, the system IS broken and matching a player against someone who is 5 seconds a lap faster is just stupid.

 

[rono_thomas]

But you dont get to race with faster people. You might share the same track with them but never the same part on the same lap. By the end of lap 1 someone of my abillity and rank is usually 10 seconds down already. Its not about learning and improving, im pretty sure ive already pointed out im at my peak and nothing will ever improve that. Sugar coat it as much as you want, the system IS broken and matching a player against someone who is 5 seconds a lap faster is just stupid.

In DR D your just not going to find enough players of like for like race pace.

Most of those D rated players I would expect to fall into the have raced 1-19 sport mode races category, meaning they never pick the game up again. Does that mean the rating system is broken or not working, to answer that question you would have to have a fully populated sport Mode.

 

[Lebowski]

In DR D your just not going to find enough players of like for like race pace.


View attachment 759967

Most of those D rated players I would expect to fall into the have raced 1-19 sport mode races category, meaning they never pick the game up again. Does that mean the rating system is broken or not working, to answer that question you would have to have a fully populated sport Mode.

Which might be true, and if so - why the huge leap from D ranked to A and S? Why not pad it out with C rated drivers?

 

[baldgye]

Which might be true, and if so - why the huge leap from D ranked to A and S? Why not pad it out with C rated drivers?

How can you properly and accurately rate drivers/players when they don't play enough games?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

But racing around faster paced people is what made me a better driver. You‘ll only learn and improve if racing faster people.

That is true if the faster person is still in the same basic level and the slower driver can actually follow the faster guy but the slower guy learns nothing when the fast guy is 10 seconds ahead and the slow guy never sees him.

I have always been one that DR ranking means nothing actually on the track but rather a racers lap time or race pace is what needs to be matched closely for good online races for ALL the racers.

SR is important as to place racers that race the same incident or contact wise in the same lobby but in reality what a persons DR ranking may be as far as matching making is really irrelevant and only an ego deal as DR rankings fluctuate as much as the SR rankings do.

If DR is supposed to represent a racers racecraft or speed levels then once you reach a certain level you should NEVER regress below that level.

If you are a DR A racer today then you are still a DR A tomorrow even though you may have had a bad few races yesterday. Now DR really means squat with all the resets both by circumstance and those that do so intentionally.

Still does not change the fact that match making in the mid ranks sucks in a lot of instances and has for a long time.

 

[rono_thomas]

Which might be true, and if so - why the huge leap from D ranked to A and S? Why not pad it out with C rated drivers?

D is populated by the 1-19 races which covers 17% of GTS purchases, only 6% of GTS purchaser have raced more than 20, and therefore to have achieved A, S the pool of players is tiny, to answer your question there is just not enough players to pad it out.

 

[Lebowski]

How can you properly and accurately rate drivers/players when they don't play enough games?

Weeeellll, they have a system called DR. You might have noticed we've been talking about it! If one guy is S rated and the other is D (both after over a thousand races) then that should be an accurate enough representation of who to mix together and if thats nit possible, match their lap times!!