Sport modes biggest failing for the slow to average driver.

[AUTISTICBOYX]

@VFOURMAX1

I have always felt that allowing a player to regress to lower DR rankings has always been a mistake in this game.

Now i'm on my 3rd black russian but please do name one competitive video game that prevents loss of rank. Because i can't think of one, even when intoxicated.

Hopefully i don't need to explain why this is a horrid idea.

 

[Sander 001]

I get trophy hunting but not in a game like this. In single player games and some multiplayer there are trophies that reward a person for approaching the game in a specific way like XX headshots, or XX jumps off building, collect some things etc., or for completing levels. Sport Mode doesnt reward playing the game in different ways so if you're here to collect trophies, you'll get them and leave, or you won't and leave. PD should not pander to such a person's wants. If you're playing Sport because you enjoy the racing and competition, the trophies don't really matter. They'll come or they won't but you'll play till you you've had enough. @Sander 001

That would be a fine argument if not for the fact that PD designed the game and trophies for you to cross the finish line first regardless if you’re in a room of only B/B drivers, mix between S/S drivers or any combination possible.

But trophies are only one of the many things I listed.

 

[Outspacer]

Widening up the SR range, especially for >90 SR lobbies, will probably bring in even more chaos than the "demolition derby" that most daily players are already annoyed at

I don't know if it would be dramatically worse, actually. The issues with the SR system make it a very crude system that causes problems (already banged on about at length, lol). But, let's say matchmaking just drew a line at some level and said all above were 'clean' and the rest 'dirty', and matched to keep them apart, allowing it to match mainly on DR. The clean races might not be much dirtier than current SR S races, and I'm thinking that mixing SR levels a bit more might reduce the number of tit-for-tat incidents. Also, since too many have SR S currently you don't know if one is going to race fairly or not, but if you're next to an SR A or B you'd know to have your guard up!

 

[Woodybobs]

That would be a fine argument if not for the fact that PD designed the game and trophies for you to cross the finish line first regardless if you’re in a room of only B/B drivers, mix between S/S drivers or any combination possible.

But trophies are only one of the many things I listed.

Yes but PD shouldn't introduce changes because some people want to get the trophies quicker and leave.

But for many players, trophies, level progression, unlocks, wins, SR, DR, earnings are not superfluous game design.

Level progression, unlocks, earnings are all so small in Sport it would make no difference.
Why hand out wins to someone beating 5 people when most people have to win against 20? Winning would be devalued.
SR and DR would be unaffected by introducing class results

 

[CoolJetta3]

Just have to take what you can when you can get it I suppose. I can be starting 8th or 3rd on the same lap time on different races so its a crap shoot. I simply try to stay consistent and not do any errors on any laps and I think I have 14 wins out of 475 races, 6 poles and 5 fastest laps doing so. I just try to get as far into the top 10 as possible on any given race. But I know if I get in a lobby and the top driver is someone like Turismo-Lester then I may not be winning unless someone Romain Grosjeans the first corner.

 

[Krypton78]

When I was a B driver setting lap times 2 seconds behind the Top 10 did I complain? When I was being matched with A and A+ (formerly S) drivers did I complain? No, I did not. I still remember the feeling I get every single time I faced off an S driver back then- excitement. It didn't matter that I finished 15 seconds behind, I was matched against an S driver! How cool was that?!

Absolutely describing me also. Because of having very less expererience I was in the beginning times about 5 secs off the top ten and was losing against DR/B drivers. What the alines where doing was like magic to me, like a mysterie.

But I believed in "what one man can do, can another man also" (Anthony Hopkins, The Edge (1997) (I guess nobody really remembers ))

So I improved and couldn't believe when I was starting as a DR/B driver to be in a lobby with A+ guys! And even with some of top ten! I was proud, and very surely not frustrated, even I hadn't a chance (still have not)!

And from time to time I solved the mystery behind some of the missing seconds. But now, at the last 1,5 - 2 secs to alien pace, I'm even more fascinated by there skills. This last seconds are barely achievable with training, you just need that reflexes.

And about "elitist", I never saw an arrogant or so post from a fast driver here. The opposite is the case, very much aliens here take their time and try to help the slower drivers to improve

 

[VFOURMAX1]

What I've seen so far from the top guys are that they're just trying to relay the reality of matchmaking and how it works.

Point being? That'd be nice if all the A/A+ drivers would farm back their DR after an FiA race so they could saturate that DR level and have lobbies all to themselves. But as you keep saying for the past n pages, this isn't the case

Sometimes I feel like you just reply to argue

Why the hell do I want to race against lower ranked people knowing that I won't gain any DR from that

The problem I have are people who complain they can't win when they don't put in the time and effort that the winners do to win.

. A D racer winning in an A+/B/C race hurts so many people more than you think

May I ask you why first off as an upper level and ranked racer why filling a grid with lower ranked racers that you will never encounter in the race is of any importance to you as far as your race is concerned?

Would filling those same basically insignificant grid spots with an AI racer rather than a lower level human racer be a satisfactory alternative in your opinion and if not could you explain why?

Not the person you're quoting, but I see it as a problem because of my DR. It makes racing so unrewarding. What would happen is that I would hotlap for the entirety of the race and gain such a miniscule amount of DR in the end that it's not worth my time.

Are we reading within the same thread? I see many of the top guys including you(proof is in one of the quotes above) saying the lower ranked guys complain and do not deserve to win they can't win because they do not put in the time and effort the winners do.

So basically to break that down in a nutshell that a low level even down to a D ranking racer does not deserve to win a race until he is a top racer in the A ranking if he is being used foe a grid filler! His work to be a top rated D racer is considered no effort or insignificant by the top guys.

Lot of different talking about how a system works and saying a lower level racer does not deserve a win because of what a top racer may personally perceive as lack of"putting in time and effort the winners do" which are your words not mine!

Another thing is so many of the responses from the upper levels are so contradictory, I do not find that same level of contradiction in most cases from the lower level.

Prime example one of your post above you state why do you want to race against lower ranked people as you know you will not gain any DR from that.

The last post was one referring to where you were replying without having those lower level Ranked racers in the grid that racing a smaller grid without that DR from those lower ranked racers would be like hot lapping and not worth your effort.

So which one is it, you claim you do not want to race against them in one post but the race would be not worthwhile without them in the next post.

Again saying one thing in one post and then posting a completely contradicting stance about the exact same issue in another.

That sounds like someone trying to justify a system that clearly does not work as intended.

And for the last item you made a post stating that a D ranked racer winning in a A+/B/C hurts so many people more than you think so do you really want to lay down the actual chance that a true D ranked racer has in winning a race whose grid is populated with A+ and B ranked racers.

Talking about reaching deep in the bag of trying to justify something with a ridiculous statement I think you with that one take the biscuit prize by quite a large margin!

The lower guys do not need to justify why a broken system is in place for a game that claims equal racing for all, every time they get in placed in grids that are full of higher ranked racers all the evidence is right there time after time.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I don't know if it would be dramatically worse, actually. The issues with the SR system make it a very crude system that causes problems (already banged on about at length, lol). But, let's say matchmaking just drew a line at some level and said all above were 'clean' and the rest 'dirty', and matched to keep them apart, allowing it to match mainly on DR. The clean races might not be much dirtier than current SR S races, and I'm thinking that mixing SR levels a bit more might reduce the number of tit-for-tat incidents. Also, since too many have SR S currently you don't know if one is going to race fairly or not, but if you're next to an SR A or B you'd know to have your guard up!

My take is that this problem will have varying degrees of severity depending on your DR. In D and C, and probably maybe B, the difference in matchmaking will be worse than the difference in A and above.

The reasoning behind this is most of the time the higher DR people go down to a lower SR level because of another guy's fault. If we are talking about A+/B or A+/A drivers, I'd wager that they'd actually driver cleaner than A+/S drivers in fear of resetting their DR. Whereas in the lower ranks, the fear of being reset is near to non-existent, and then there's the possibility that they might be either inexperienced in traffic or their racecraft needs a bit more work in general.

 

[Darwock]

I've been reading this thread for four days now - currently on page 12 of 18 and every day I log in I'm another few pages behind, so I am not up to speed with every post, but I have to comment.

There should be more people arguing from the position of Lebowski and VFOURMAX (if that's the right name) - they are the only two speaking sense IMO.

Lots of people picking on their personal performances and accusing them of wanting easy wins, but it seems to me they are thinking of the health of the community and not their own stats.

In contrast, it's all the A rated drivers who currently race in the privileged position of only having 2 or 3 real contenders on the grid that are picking up easy wins. Perhaps that's why the tone is so toxic? A change to the matching process would mean they have to try harder in general.

My own experience is kind of messed up - I put a lot of time into Sport mode at the end of 2017 and early 2018, then gave it up as penalties were sucking all the fun out of it. I progressed to B/A at the time.

Came back to Sport mode a week or two ago, just dipping my toe in but quickly ranked up to SR-S. Since then I have shed somewhere between 8000-10000 DR despite improving by 3/4 positions in every race. I did one race in the 250GTO last week that dropped me back to SR-A, and one race at Le Mans last night that put me on the verge of SR-B.

The pole sitter (and his closest rivals) was setting times
12 seconds faster than my own! Apart from the pit stop window I was just going around by myself watching that red number get further and further away from me. I think I am close to sacking off Sport mode again, it's not rewarding to play in the slightest.

I don't want easy wins by being matched with similar ability drivers, I do want engaging and exciting races. Those are not currently being provided.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Prime example one of your post above you state why do you want to race against lower ranked people as you know you will not gain any DR from that.

The last post was one referring to where you were replying without having those lower level Ranked racers in the grid that racing a smaller grid without that DR from those lower ranked racers would be like hot lapping and not worth your effort.

What the- they're exactly the same point! My first post regarding why I don't want to race against lower ranked drivers is just a simplified statement of my last post. You might have misunderstood my last post- that answer was in response to your question "why is it of significance that I as a high ranked driver am being matched with lower ranked drivers".

So basically to break that down in a nutshell that a low level even down to a D ranking racer does not deserve to win a race until he is a top racer in the A ranking if he is being used foe a grid filler! His work to be a top rated D racer is considered no effort or insignificant by the top guys.

See, the thing is no one was telling the D drivers that they shouldn't win, just that they should try to find other things why Sport mode is fun when they keep getting matched with high ranks in Sport mode. I never said they should win, but that on the off chance that they do, it really hurts my DR to the point that I am not willing to play dailies given the risk. Do you get what I'm saying, I hope you get what I'm saying because every other post you make have been ad hominems to high ranked people and strawmans, never including the entirety of the post and reinterpreting them into your own. I'm sorry this post also turned into an ad hominem but seriously how could I not after all the nonsense you talk of?

And for the last item you made a post stating that a D ranked racer winning in a A+/B/C hurts so many people more than you think so do you really want to lay down the actual chance that a true D ranked racer has in winning a race whose grid is populated with A+ and B ranked racers.

I know that the chances of a D racer winning that kind of grid is slim, but then again, that post was in response to an argument "Who does it hurt that you get a Rank D winner in a race with A+ / B and C racers?"

The chances of a D racer winning isn't the question, but rather the consequences of them winning it, to which I replied the answer- DR

Please, I ask of you, please please please, never cherry pick a part of the post an reinterpret them as your own. It's really sad that I have to remind you of these

 

[VFOURMAX1]

My take is that this problem will have varying degrees of severity depending on your DR. In D and C, and probably maybe B, the difference in matchmaking will be worse than the difference in A and above.

The reasoning behind this is most of the time the higher DR people go down to a lower SR level because of another guy's fault. If we are talking about A+/B or A+/A drivers, I'd wager that they'd actually driver cleaner than A+/S drivers in fear of resetting their DR. Whereas in the lower ranks, the fear of being reset is near to non-existent, and then there's the possibility that they might be either inexperienced in traffic or their racecraft needs a bit more work in general

Oh my god, this just keeps getting more bizarre.

Now we have the top guys are perfect and only go down to lower SR levels because of another guys fault.
I guess that every post you see about the higher ranked racers in other threads concerning needing to go to the dailies and try to get their SR rank back up before the upcoming FIA races because of the losses from the last FIA round none of those guys lost SR because they messed up and hit someone else as it was always the other guys fault.

That's some funny stuff there.

Then we have where the lower ranked guys have no fear of being reset and their racecraft may "needs a bit more work in general".

I can only speak for myself but according to Kudo's I have been at a SR S ranking since day 5 of my racing and at DR D rank. I have been a SR 99 with the exception of 4 times and only for 1 day each time, never have fallen from S.

I have 252 Sport Mode races across that span so just what gives you the insight to make such statements concerning the lower ranked racers?

What exactly classifies as an elitist attitude to you? Your definition must be different than mine.

And you seem to question as to why the lower ranked players are developing such a dislike or opinion as to they act as such elitist within a damn video game?

I may not be the fastest but I race clean and consistent but you know maybe it is time for me to change my mindset so I fit in with what my ranking level is supposed to be according to some top ranked guys and hope like hell I am placed in mixed lobbies with the highest ranked guys I can find and every chance I get run into them and crash them off the track, it will cost them a whole lor more DR points for lost positions on the track than me.

Oh and lets not forget as a lower ranked racer I have no fear of a DR reset as I will just get to race against lower level racers and get easy wins just like the top guys do and when I go back up the ranks I can just do it all over again!

And yes I may not be fast enough to catch them outright but I can time either them coming out of the pits or me coming out the pits to get my shot!

So since I do not deserve to win a race and have no race craft because I am not a top ranked racer would that be more suitable to you top guys?
I CAN BE ACCOMMODATING!

And I quoted your ENTIRE POST SO NO CHERRY PICKING as you call it.

 

[Outspacer]

My take is that this problem will have varying degrees of severity depending on your DR. In D and C, and probably maybe B, the difference in matchmaking will be worse than the difference in A and above.

The reasoning behind this is most of the time the higher DR people go down to a lower SR level because of another guy's fault. If we are talking about A+/B or A+/A drivers, I'd wager that they'd actually driver cleaner than A+/S drivers in fear of resetting their DR. Whereas in the lower ranks, the fear of being reset is near to non-existent, and then there's the possibility that they might be either inexperienced in traffic or their racecraft needs a bit more work in general.

Well to some extent, maybe, but the prime example in this thread is DR As getting matched with DR Ds, when they're all SR S. People are clearly able to be 'slow' but 'clean' (and that's heartening really given that they have no fear of DR reset). Where I think it's more likely to break down is lower SR - the system (even if improved a lot) can't tell whether someone is purposefully dirty or just clumsy. Still, if a proposed system has to break down anywhere, I think most would agree that lower SR is the right place.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

*Snip*

In contrast, it's all the A rated drivers who currently race in the privileged position of only having 2 or 3 real contenders on the grid that are picking up easy wins. Perhaps that's why the tone is so toxic? A change to the matching process would mean they have to try harder in general.

My own experience is kind of messed up - I put a lot of time into Sport mode at the end of 2017 and early 2018, then gave it up as penalties were sucking all the fun out of it. I progressed to B/A at the time.

Came back to Sport mode a week or two ago, just dipping my toe in but quickly ranked up to SR-S. Since then I have shed somewhere between 8000-10000 DR despite improving by 3/4 positions in every race. I did one race in the 250GTO last week that dropped me back to SR-A, and one race at Le Mans last night that put me on the verge of SR-B.

The pole sitter (and his closest rivals) was setting times
12 seconds faster than my own! Apart from the pit stop window I was just going around by myself watching that red number get further and further away from me. I think I am close to sacking off Sport mode again, it's not rewarding to play in the slightest.

I don't want easy wins by being matched with similar ability drivers, I do want engaging and exciting races. Those are not currently being provided.

That's simply not how it works.

It isn't some sort of utopia where all A+ drivers have the fastest qualy lap, followed by all A drivers, followed by all B drivers.
There is a huge variation with different drivers in different cars on different tracks.
And the grid positions can be/probably are far more jumbled than the lower ranks.

What you've mentioned really only relates to the absolute best, top 10, type drivers.
For the rest of us in B or A or A+, all grouped together, it's no walk in the park.

 

[Groundfish]

Wow.

That newer racer is not in their mind "casually lapping around" but doing the best that their limited skills allow them to currently do. Sure they may and should improve over time with experience and move up the rankings.
But again just because that racer may not have the desire to be in the very top level and occasionally plays does not in any way indicate that every time he plays he does not do the absolute best he is capable of.

So for that driver at that time to his ability does that lessen his sporting performance if he is doing the best he is capable of?
Just because someone is not totally dedicated to reach the very top levels should not limit having the ability to play the game, have fun and get the normal games rewards against others of his same abilities and interest level.

This is a game sold and marketed to appeal to the masses and not a hardcore sim racer, hell this game is so simple you cannot even adjust tire pressures period or do any tuning to the drivetrain or suspension in most Sport Mode races so please lets not talk about how serious the racing is .

The top guys have the FIA championships and top 24 races and some will make the world finals as their reward for their hard work and dedication those are the rewards for being at the top and the best.

Normal daily races are for everyone.





I am not at a D ranking and I am not struggling to get wins at the D ranking at all period, I do not race in that classification so save your condenscending little speech for advancing out of the D class with the minimal effort required for another time and someone else. This conversation is not and was not started to be about me or by me. I do agree with the OP and the situation that lower ranked players face with the matching.

I see the same within my classification as well only the poor D guys in with A+ and A racers man give me a friggin break, that is absurd and no I do not think that situation should be occurring under any circumstance period.

A+ and A racers and even B racers that need their grids to be filled with D ranked racers to feel like they have a "full" race maybe they are the ones that need to examine exactly what they classify as 'sporting".




Actually I am a mid level B driver and I race GR3 as my favorite class, then GR1 next and lastly GR4 as they keep the BoP so screwed up in that class on the cars I like to drive.

I race all class of cars with ABS weak only, no other aids including traction control. So describing the B class racers as a level that cannot keep a car on the track without multitudes of aids does not accurately describe most B class racers that I am aware of.

And the reason for that is back much earlier in the year the points allocation was changed in order to try to boost the numbers as there were so few racers at the A+ (Then S ranking) and the A ranking.
I will say that my experience was that prior to this change it was a much better and greater chance of getting in a lobby of your same ranking level if you were a lower ranked player than what it was after the change.


I have as a B racer only seen an A+ racer in a grid I was in a couple of times and it was not one of the top guys who name you would recognize even then.
I cannot say the same when it comes to A ranked competitors and it is not unusual to see a 2 or more a second gap in pace between the slowest of the A guys and the fastest of the B guys within the lobby.
That gap could be 3.5 seconds from pole position and if you have 7 A racers then the B racer that is starting 17th could easily 5 seconds off the pole and 3.5 seconds slower than the last 7th place A racer.
So again a guy that would be starting first within his own ranking and maybe get the win now starts 8th and by pace unless those A guys screw up will finish a best of 8th and not win the race!
The guy starting 17th in the mixed grid and gains 5 spots finishes 12 th but if he was racing in a grid that only contained racers within his ranking class and gained 5 positions get to claim a top 5 spot.
So again even the slower higher ranked and faster paced racers unless they screw up are given the advantage of higher finishing positions against lesser competition.
The facts remain the same the game does not treat all of its player equally with the same chance of success in relation to their level of rank.

Hit the wrong button, edited the previous post as a result.

And anytime someone points out ways to try to counteract that and even as simple as rewarding each class within a mixed lobby their own separate race finishes and rewards your reply is usually it is Nonsense!
That sums that one up doesnt it!

Oh my god, this just keeps getting more bizarre.

Now we have the top guys are perfect and only go down to lower SR levels because of another guys fault.
I guess that every post you see about the higher ranked racers in other threads concerning needing to go to the dailies and try to get their SR rank back up before the upcoming FIA races because of the losses from the last FIA round none of those guys lost SR because they messed up and hit someone else as it was always the other guys fault.

That's some funny stuff there.

Then we have where the lower ranked guys have no fear of being reset and their racecraft may "needs a bit more work in general".

I can only speak for myself but according to Kudo's I have been at a SR S ranking since day 5 of my racing and at DR D rank. I have been a SR 99 with the exception of 4 times and only for 1 day each time, never have fallen from S.

I have 252 Sport Mode races across that span so just what gives you the insight to make such statements concerning the lower ranked racers?

What exactly classifies as an elitist attitude to you? Your definition must be different than mine.

And you seem to question as to why the lower ranked players are developing such a dislike or opinion as to they act as such elitist within a damn video game?

I may not be the fastest but I race clean and consistent but you know maybe it is time for me to change my mindset so I fit in with what my ranking level is supposed to be according to some top ranked guys and hope like hell I am placed in mixed lobbies with the highest ranked guys I can find and every chance I get run into them and crash them off the track, it will cost them a whole lor more DR points for lost positions on the track than me.

Oh and lets not forget as a lower ranked racer I have no fear of a DR reset as I will just get to race against lower level racers and get easy wins just like the top guys do and when I go back up the ranks I can just do it all over again!

And yes I may not be fast enough to catch them outright but I can time either them coming out of the pits or me coming out the pits to get my shot!

So since I do not deserve to win a race and have no race craft because I am not a top ranked racer would that be more suitable to you top guys?
I CAN BE ACCOMMODATING!

And I quoted your ENTIRE POST SO NO CHERRY PICKING as you call it.

VFour what dr are you? I am trying to figure it out but you keep saying confusing things. I’m confused. What is your dr? First you said I’m not a d and took offense. Then you said as a b.
Then just now you said implied you have always been a d.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Ugh it's gotten much worse with tuning and liberal use of track limits.

I'm driving stock and always keep 2 wheels within the white lines as that's what they're there for. However that means that I won't be reaching the finish line in the fast room while trying out different cars since BOP is pretty unbalanced as well for GR.1 My DR plummeted from 38K to 26K and at least now I have been put in rooms with people finishing in the 17:50's instead of the 17:20's. Yet that could also be the afternoon / early evening no aliens on yet. There are still plenty that never see the finish line.

Matchmaking making it impossible to win is one thing, putting you in a position where you cant even reach the finish line when not making any mistakes is not what I expected from this game. Hopefully tuning will be a rare thing and track limits will be fixed again as currently it seems I'm back in lobby racing in GT5.

What has this game become, pick the meta car, pick the meta tune, check where you can cut the corners, go race... How's that for promising a level playing field. It's not about race craft anymore.

 

[llNovall]

As mentioned in this thread above, PD should have set up DR to be a permanent driver level/pace marker. Once achieved, it does not go down, and have the Sr fluctuate according to on track ettiquette and overall car control. This would allow the matchmaking to be more in line imo. How many A/A+ driver are running as B drivers because their Sr tanked their DR rating. The pool of drivers would be more consistent and plentiful if based on actual driver pace/level achieved.

 

[rono_thomas]

What has this game become, pick the meta car, pick the meta tune, check where you can cut the corners, go race... How's that for promising a level playing field. It's not about race craft anymore.

Yup.

Please take this as the joke I mean.

Can always wait for FIA races .

 

[soundtiger95]

As mentioned in this thread above, PD should have set up DR to be a permanent driver level/pace marker. Once achieved, it does not go down, and have the Sr fluctuate according to on track ettiquette and overall car control. This would allow the matchmaking to be more in line imo. How many A/A+ driver are running as B drivers because their Sr tanked their DR rating. The pool of drivers would be more consistent and plentiful if based on actual driver pace/level achieved.

I disagree with this. Sometimes you just lose your mojo for a bit and don’t perform as well. I have that happen to me sometimes and the last thing I want is for it to ruin someone else’s race simply because I’m driving how I usually do, but my usual driving is too overaggressive for my slump. It’s better to just go down a level and re-group imo. Everything slows down a bit which is something people need once in a while.

 

[Groundfish]

Its a bad idea to keep dr fixed because once you reach a level you can punt anyone and never pay for it.
I guess that’s what was alluded to above.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

VFour what dr are you? I am trying to figure it out but you keep saying confusing things. I’m confused. What is your dr? First you said I’m not a d and took offense. Then you said as a b.
Then just now you said implied you have always been a d

I am a mid level DR B and an SR S level (99).
My reference in the above post was in reference was to I was an SR S (99) ranking since day 5 of my starting to race and at the time I was still at the DR D level at that time.

I have a total of 252 Sport Mode Races.

I have never been below the SR S ranking since obtaining it and have not been below DR B since obtaining that either.

The only reason that I posted any of that information because it had been implied from another members post that a lower ranked driver was not up to the standards and the fear of facing a DR reset was 'near non existent" as being as clean of a racer or possessed enough race craft to be a "accurate clean racer"

I think those stats clearly debunk what was implied that a lower level racer just because a racer may be a lower level racer cannot race clean and in control from even the lowest DR D ranking levels and that all lower level racers do not face DR resets because of declining SR rankings and making such a statement is actually rather insulting to the racers of the lower levels to insinuate that lower level racers race dirtier than the high level racers.

I have actually experience just the opposite in mixed lobbies and have found the some of the higher ranked racers will knock you out of the way quicker than the lower level guys.

I will not make a statement that insinuates that just because they are in the top rankings it is probable or a possibility they all race that way.

The main difference is the top level guys are good at doing so where if a penalty is given out it goes to the victim while they go scott free.

But there is no elitist attitude according to that poster also from an earlier post.

It isn't some sort of utopia where all A+ drivers have the fastest qualy lap, followed by all A drivers, followed by all B drivers.

One thing that has mixed up some of the predictability is the DR resets and the alternate accounts where actual high level racers are racing within a lower DR ranking than what there skillset and pace place them.

Yes you may find a high level B driver on the cusp of going to the next level running faster than some A drivers but it would not be normal for a true B ranked driver to finish ahead due to a faster pace than a true A+ level racer. If that true B racer finished in front of that A+ racer he probably either screwed up somewhere or was taken out and sent off track in another incident.

Sure its possible that the car or track can influence the odds a bit but the A+ driver is expected to adapt quicker as experience and his generally better racecraft along with his pace is why he is within the A+ rankings to begin with.

Its a bad idea to keep dr fixed because once you reach a level you can punt anyone and never pay for it.
I guess that’s what was alluded to above.

But actually they would pay worse than they do now, the points within the ranking system would still be deducted keeping them as a low level whatever rank they may be but they would not be rewarded for bad behavior by going down a ranking and maybe just racing slower racers.

Also if their SR dropped below the threshhold for the the ranking they were in they would earn absolutely no manner or ranking points within their DR ranking until their SR was back to being high enough to earn the points for that ranking.

That would be a punishment as acting an ass and dropping SR no matter how low you just keep getting put into lobbies with just as fast even dirtier racers.

That may be incentive to not drop SR levels by driving cleaner.

I'm driving stock and always keep 2 wheels within the white lines as that's what they're there for.

I was in some heated discussions concerning that some months back as well lol!

Same here that is just another reason that trying to obtain higher levels than where I am at is totally unimportant to me. To reach those top ranking levels you cannot usually drive in a manner where you are driving in a manner that you are trying to keep from tearing up the equipment you are driving which would to me a more realistic aspect of the racing than an extra 2/10's gained by jumping curbings every lap on two wheels.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Philip DeFranco has the perfect shirt for you:

There's no feeling involved , or are you mixing it up with this post :

Why do I feel it sounds like IF I'm imagining F1 top drivers, eg : Lewis Hamilton or Vettel complaining the back marker teams/drivers for being there in the grid, and ruining their races for being too slow/blocking or it can be reversed, the backmarker teams complaining the top 3 teams are too dominating and they just want to race between themselves, slower teams.

Still, the post deserved a like, I have guessed you would reply to me, not sure why, I just knew Thanks for the shirt too Oh, by the way, if my post below do not belong in this thread/off topic, could you please move it to the correct thread, if such exist already ?

No need to argue, if you believe those sites, I won't stop you. It doesn't concern you what I believe, does it ?

I think some people misunderstood me, when I wrote believe, it meant believing those stats to be accurate and reliable source. That's the point I'm making, my point of view, my stance, is that I do not trust those stats site and to me, they are not accurate enough due the method ( small sample size ) and let me add, the DR/SR changes/fluctuation throughout the days, the sampling intervals ( it took hours to collect small number of datas ), and the amount of data types/variable being extracted - for instance just to be clear, the combined SR/DR rating which is related to this thread discussion : there are about 30 combinations possible. Now I'm not the best in data collection/maths/stats, and I tend to doubt anything, hence I don't easily trust stats made with random+very small sample. For example 30 combination of DR+SR rating using random sample size of just 1% out of total, which is random 50000+ players data, could anyone convinced me how this can be accurate compared to the stats derived from all ACTUAL DATA resided on PD servers at a given time ? For instance, PD showing the actual numbers of DR A with SR S players in game that are active the past 3 days + the total number of players DR A with SR S, so it can be 550 / 6789.

Example :
DR SR Players %
E E 8,011 0.7697%
E D 9,705 0.9324%
E C 105,302 10.1173%
E B 379,719 36.4831%
E A 2,200 0.2114%
E S 172 0.0165%
D E 40,628 3.9035%
D D 38,969 3.7441%
D C 125,150 12.0243%
D B 131,784 12.6617%
D A 21,990 2.1128%
D S 26,881 2.5827%
C E 1,864 0.1791%
C D 6,557 0.6300%
C C 25,603 2.4599%
C B 28,080 2.6979%
C A 8,768 0.8424%
C S 15,358 1.4756%
B D 739 0.0710%
B C 7,561 0.7265%
B B 17,033 1.6365%
B A 7,499 0.7205%
B S 22,968 2.2067%
A C 32 0.0031%
A B 523 0.0502%
A A 804 0.0772%
A S 5,526 0.5309%
S B 5 0.0005%
S A 23 0.0022%
S S 1,355 0.1302%

This is taken from Jason Guernsey site ( I used cache ), it's a snapshot of the site from August 19 2018, 12:27:27 GMT. If I read this stats correctly, it's the combined SR/DR rating from the total players active in Sports mode, right ? What interests me is the S B, DR S and SR B level players, which are only 5 out of 1.040.809 total.

I'm not sure how data being collected here, did all of players data have been collected to get the 1040809 number ? I heard it can take days to get all 5+ millions players data because of slow query/data gathering, but during those days, players data fluctuate/changes every time there are races in Sport mode. Do these changes taken into account ? That DR S, SR B with only 5 players, how long is that number can be depended on ? will that change in near future ? A day or two ? I wonder how many DR S/ SR B active players are there in truth, 5 ?

Just wondering now, all of those players in the stats also do not always race in every event, so encountering DR S, SR B driver in a race would be like finding ultra rare gem ?

And to be clear, I do not ever say they are wrong, I stated my view, that those stats site, for me are not accurate as I expected, reliable/trustworthy, which why I said before I won't use those site to making conclusions. Now if they can be accurate/reliable, could anyone show me how they can ? Preferably with sound comparison or data or whatever that could sway me.

Well when you are posting publically that they are wrong it makes people want to educate you using the available facts. Rather than beliefs.

I hope that doesn't come over as rude but there's no real way to say it otherwise.

Much like the argument against climate change deniers who, up against all the available and independently verified data which all comes to the same conclusion using differing datasets still say that they believe its not correct.

Don't worry about being rude to me, I have had worst in the past, and I'm always cool as cucumber

Of course it doesn’t but what you believe or not does not change the accuracy of a statistic either.

You're creating doubt when there is no need to. The results are gathered from actual numbers. There are almost no variables to consider. The chances that a randomly selected 50,000 sample size does not represent the whole in this case are too small to be worth bothering about.

There's only 5 players with DR S and SR B on the DR/SR combined stat I mentioned above, do you for certain think it's true/accurate ?

You asked questions. I gave you a link to inform you of the other site's method.

Thank you for your help.

 

[sturk0167]

As mentioned in this thread above, PD should have set up DR to be a permanent driver level/pace marker. Once achieved, it does not go down, and have the Sr fluctuate according to on track ettiquette and overall car control. This would allow the matchmaking to be more in line imo. How many A/A+ driver are running as B drivers because their Sr tanked their DR rating. The pool of drivers would be more consistent and plentiful if based on actual driver pace/level achieved.

Right. The biggest problem for slower paced drivers trying to get a balanced matchup is DR resets. A week or two ago I was 40k+, and yesterday I was in the C race with all B, C, and D drivers. I started at the back of the pack and won. That shouldn't happen. It really isn't fair to those guys. I've had my DR reset 6 times, and I'm getting close to 7. I've always had a problem with rear-ending people in the braking zones, and not being as careful as I should to stay within track limits. Also, I'm usually drinking beer when I race. The DR resets are entirely my fault.

If I'm at A, I should race A guys with similar SR ratings, assuming they're available. DR should trump SR in matchmaking. I feel that A is about the maximum of my potential, and think of my ability level as A, so regardless of my current rating, I will feel advantaged in a room full of B drivers. I guess it's fair for me to get some punishment for my bad driving. But in keeping with the spirit of the OP, this is where I see the game failing the slow to average driver.

 

[Groundfish]

V4
The thing is if you always stay the same dr you can punt whenever. Other folks within the dr sufffer that. That’s not fair and defeats the entire purpose of a safety rating.
I mean you could say the fair thing to do is set all grids by time.
At the end of the day fair and equal to all has to have a statistical definition and be more than a wordsmithing tactic. To be honest with you I am not sure you are being honest with me.
Simple truths don’t require flowery wordsmithing. The truths the truth.
To me it seems you only want the game to work they way you want it to as an individual and fail to see that others are affected.
I am not sure you yourself can explicitly define how you view fair and equal racing for all. To me that means that we all just set times and compare.
You have spent what seems to me to be an inordinate amount of time and effort wordsmithing but again for all that I still am not seeing a real viable solution to your issues.
Seriously man when I read your posts I get the image of one of those rants parodies videos from the movie downfall. Espescially when you built in the yelling.
NEIN!Wierschitzen ergGTSPORTACHTULLSCHWUNG NO SIM NEIN WEINSTRUCHT RATING SYSTEM ECHTUNSCREIT!
All while pounding a table.
Relax man have a cup of coffee. There’s only one three letter word people need to use to describe the game
FUN.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

This is taken from Jason Guernsey site ( I used cache ), it's a snapshot of the site from August 19 2018, 12:27:27 GMT.

I'm not sure how data being collected here,

I do not know if those stats are correct and current or not and will not pretend to know.

The only thing I question as it has been some months now that the top rankings are A+ and not S so that raises one question.

The other is the total amount of racers in the top ranks as those number look about right from what I can remember before PD changed the ranking level limits to increase the size of the upper rankings (A+ and A) and even B to an extent and lowered the levels to reduce the numbers within the D and C rankings.
Maybe someone else will chime in that has better knowledge that could confirm the data is current. I think the data is from before the big ranking reset though dur to the upper levels being that low and the very bottom levels being that high. .

I am not sure you yourself can explicitly define how you view fair and equal racing for all.

You have spent what seems to me to be an inordinate amount of time and effort wordsmithing but again for all that I still am not seeing a real viable solution to your issues.

Say what you like you have that right to your opinion.

I can say my position is the same and has not changed what I think since the start of the thread until right now.

Unfortunately with some within this crowd if you do not lay things out precisely with every little point covered like you would need to do for a elementary school student they either cannot comprehend what you are saying or try to twist it and make the subject you are covering or discussing to be about something totally different.

The core of my message is the same, the matching system is broken and the game is not delivering the equal matched racing it was advertised to deliver.

Others keep offering different excuses as to why that is not correct or why it is the same in other games or why the lower level racers are not deserving to win or should not expect to get what the game promised but failed to deliver.

Bottom line the OP was correct, he should not be getting matched with higher ranking drivers and the system is not working as advertised.

Honestly that is all of it in the condensed version.

If you prefer to not read my responses feel free to skip them or put me on your ignore list. I promise you will not hurt my feelings and I am not one that gets intimidated.

 

[llNovall]

Right. The biggest problem for slower paced drivers trying to get a balanced matchup is DR resets. A week or two ago I was 40k+, and yesterday I was in the C race with all B, C, and D drivers. I started at the back of the pack and won. That shouldn't happen. It really isn't fair to those guys. I've had my DR reset 6 times, and I'm getting close to 7. I've always had a problem with rear-ending people in the braking zones, and not being as careful as I should to stay within track limits. Also, I'm usually (well, actually always) drinking beer when I race. The DR resets are entirely my fault.

If I'm at A, I should race A guys with similar SR ratings, assuming they're available. DR should trump SR in matchmaking. I feel that A is about the maximum of my potential, and think of my ability level as A, so regardless of my current rating, I will feel advantaged in a room full of B drivers. I guess it's fair for me to get some punishment for my bad driving. But in keeping with the spirit of the OP, this is where I see the game failing the slow to average driver.

That was exactly my point. It is essentially justifiable sandbagging...the system took me down a notch, so now I "have" to race drivers that have a slower pace..basically getting rewarded with easier wins and stat padding.

 

[Woodybobs]

There's only 5 players with DR S and SR B on the DR/SR combined stat I mentioned above, do you for certain think it's true/accurate ?

A+/B players will almost always be matched with DR C and D. It takes one race to raise the SR. That the number is only 5 in that chart simply indicates that the amount of A+/B players will always be tiny.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It seems some are confusing DR with SR. They both have their problems.


DR measures pace by exchanging points with people you finish in front and behind of. It's pretty inefficient as a bubble sort algorithm is quite a poor way to sort things and matchmaking has a big influence on whether you go up or down in ranking, even more so qualifying. Race pace takes a back seat to DR placement.

For example from my extensive driving on Panorama last week without qualifying

Slowest race while still gaining DR: 20:22.373 (8th) +120 DR
Lowest finish while still gaining DR: 12th +11 DR

Fastest race while still losing DR: 19:45.006 (10th) -30 DR
Highest finish while still losing DR: 7th -118 DR

My DR was rising through the week as well yet not so much to explain a 38 sec difference in finish times or 5 places between gaining and losing DR. That's not measuring race pace. And of course after I finally qualified on Sunday my DR shot straight up.



SR, the safety rating has many flaws. Apart from the judgement system being pretty broken, it doesn't take any history into account. What happens now when a DR.A driver drives recklessly or dirty is a brief visit to SR.A or SR.B where they will be put on pole (or top 3) for an easy race to go straight back to SR.S and repeat. Still get mangled? DR gets reset as well and now the DR.A player is hidden between all the DR.B drivers with no chance of the system ever putting fast and reckless drivers together.

Let there be DR.A SR.D drivers and put them together instead of demoting their DR and mixing them in with all the other drivers for an easy trip back up to SR.S.


Anyway, it's all meaningless when there aren't enough entries to fill a room. I can't remember the last time I saw a full A/S room. Actually I can, since it is so rare. It was the first day of Saint Croix, one room with A+/S and A/S and only 1 B/S grid filler. So close! A full A+/S room, has anyone ever seen that?

 

[Groundfish]

V4
I am sorry if you felt intimidated by being addressed. Didn’t mean that.
So I expect you will continue broadcasting your core narrative that the game is broken as you put it and repeatedly use your wordsmithing skill aggressively to do your best to counter all opposing views.
Again. It was already shown earlier in the thread that the op was confused about how the rating system worked and mistaken.
Many good patient and truthful folks here have repeatedly pointed out why you can’t have the game revolve around yourself. Millions own the game. I think I know what’s going on here after reading a bit and I believe I mentioned it in one of my first posts in this thread as a theory.
Clearly you have no intent to be honest with me and I had hoped my initial impressions were not true.
You are an excellent wordsmith. Full use of the straw man technique as well as further advanced techniques used by many people who troll such as asking questions which assume your own desired (I think you implied core message ie the game is broken) conclusions and many others such as quoting pages old posts out of context to try to make others fit whatever wordsmithing nonsense you are trying to spin.
As for me you have done nothing but reinforce my existing viewpoint.
Buying a game is not buying a right to defeat others at the game. I am sorry you are more interested in wordsmithing than truth but not surprised.
Like I said before sit down. Take a deep breath. Have a cup of coffee and relax.
We are talking GT Sport (the real driving simulator)

 

[FPV MIC]

Snip*
Same here that is just another reason that trying to obtain higher levels than where I am at is totally unimportant to me. To reach those top ranking levels you cannot usually drive in a manner where you are driving in a manner that you are trying to keep from tearing up the equipment you are driving which would to me a more realistic aspect of the racing than an extra 2/10's gained by jumping curbings every lap on two wheels.

Not sure you watch the same racing as me then. Every lap, lap after lap, I see drivers IRL jumping curbs, with sometimes all four wheels off the ground just to gain an extra .1sec. That's exactly what you have to do if you truly want to get to the upper levels of motorsport... and even in the lower levels it's the same. Racing is about being as fast as you possibly can be, not just circulating.

 

[sturk0167]

Let there be DR.A SR.D drivers and put them together instead of demoting their DR and mixing them in with all the other drivers for an easy trip back up to SR.S.

Nailed it! That would help a lot.