SSC Regains Fastest Production Car Title With 316mph Tuatara

Crazy to think that i can still remember when this car was first mentioned back when the Veyron kicked off the whole "race to 300", and now that it's finally arrived it's blown that goal away by a noticable margin. At this rate, a production passenger car cracking 400 mph by the end of the decade seems entirely possible.
 
Absolutely insane achievement. As much as I love Koenigsegg, I don't see the Jesko Absolut beating this. It's got less power, and similar Cd according to the spec sheets. Hennessey Venom maybe in with a shout, but that's vaporware until proven otherwise.

Electric cars might beat it in a few years, given the likes of Rimac C2, Pininfarina Battista and Lotus Evija are already close to the 2000 HP mark as well.

Now I'm interested to see the track version do a lap around the Nurburgring :P

Joey D
Somewhere between 2,100-2,600 ft above sea level. There's a slight grade coming out of Las Vegas, but it's not much.

I'm not sure how much air density plays into cars at that speed, but it's incredibly dry in that area. Humidity is going to be less than 20% in that area and probably more likely less than 10%.
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Density definitely plays a big part. The equation for air resistance goes up with velocity squared. F1 cars for example reach their highest speed at Mexico circuit because it's the highest altitude track (even with high downforce wings), not at Monza where it runs paper thin wings. Ehra Lessien is close to sea level IIRC so the Bug would probably go faster too if tested here. Don't think it will beat it though.

This is why I think top speed testing needs a standardised location. Otherwise there will always be asterisks next to the record.

I vote this place :P
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LeGeNd-1
Absolutely insane achievement. As much as I love Koenigsegg, I don't see the Jesko Absolut beating this. It's got less power, and similar Cd according to the spec sheets. Hennessey Venom maybe in with a shout, but that's vaporware until proven otherwise.

Electric cars might beat it in a few years, given the likes of Rimac C2, Pininfarina Battista and Lotus Evija are already close to the 2000 HP mark as well.
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But they're very heavy cars; that's the problem with batteries. The energy density is still lower than the internal combustion engine.
 
CLowndes888
But they're very heavy cars; that's the problem with batteries. The energy density is still lower than the internal combustion engine.
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Those cars I listed are around the same weight as the Chiron. The Evija is projected to be lighter at around 1600kg, so I don't think weight/tyre integrity is going to be the issue. The torque with electric motors tend to drop at high rpm, but I imagine with proper gearing that can be fixed as well.
 
People have been comparing the videos released by SSC and Koenigsegg. There appears to be a discrepancy in the timing of the two videos. People are starting the doubt the legitimacy of the SSC's claim.



(via the Reddit post, language warning)

I believe using the basic kinematic equations, we should be able to deduce whether or not these claims are accurate or not.

So using the videos released by Top Gear and Koenigsegg I did the math.

SSC:
First median crossing: 193 mph @ 0:50
Second median crossing: 307 mph @ 1:13 (23 seconds)
After converting to m/s and using the equation d = (1/2)(v + v_0) * t:
(1/2)(86 + 137) * 23 = 2564.5 = 2600 meters (rounded to 2 significant figures)

Agera RS:
First median crossing: 226 mph @ 2:47
Second median crossing: 264 mph @ 3:03 (16 seconds)
(1/2)(101 + 118) * 16 = 1752 = 1800 meters (rounded to 2 significant figures)

That's a 800 meter difference.

I then found the location of the second median crossing: 36°03'14.0"N 115°44'13.8"W
By using the measuring feature in Google Maps, the distance from the first median crossing to the second is about 1.81 km or 1810 meters.

This number is much closer to the estimate for the Agera RS. I think that's a big enough difference to be have doubt in the video released by SSC. Perhaps they had used the video of the slower run with the overlay from the peak speed run? It would be an incredibly odd choice, but it is plausible.

EDIT: weird, this post got completely messed up and deleted my math? Let me redo it, give me a second
EDIT 2: post should be fixed
 
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Pretty sure the SSC was starting from the intersection of Tecopa Road & Rt 160 based on what I'm seeing at the beginning of that video (notice it's 3 lanes converging to 2 lanes right at the beginning). The Koenigsegg appears to start in a different place. Fairly certain both cars are headed east (must have been morning, both are driving into the sun more or less) but the medians are pretty inconsistently spaced apart. I measured some at ~4500ft and some at nearly 1.5 miles. I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison.

Also there's this

As he walked up, Jared said that Webb told him this: “I’m done Jared. I’ll never do that again. I got hit with two different blasts of cross winds, and it moved me two lanes over and into the rumble strips. I had a really close call.”

Shelby told us that Webb was truly shaken by the experience … but right after that, Webb said that he “saw a big speed on the display.” The crew immediately got into the data, and saw that he had hit 331 mph.
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If that bolded bit is true, we are not watching footage from the 331mph run because that clearly didn't happen. Also, if you watch the full SSC video, the mph readout on the cluster is blurred out and also does not appear to match the telemetry (for instance, pause that video at 1:30 and the telemetry indicates 312mph but the instrument cluster in the car appears to be reading 278, which is an enormous difference). I'd hazard a guess footage of the initial 300mph run is used in the promotional material because it has the driver celebrating. If he really did have an experience that shook him, I doubt he would have been celebrating, and it wouldn't have been good footage for promotion.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Pretty sure the SSC was starting from the intersection of Tecopa Road & Rt 160 based on what I'm seeing at the beginning of that video (notice it's 3 lanes converging to 2 lanes right at the beginning). The Koenigsegg appears to start in a different place. Fairly certain both cars are headed east (must have been morning, both are driving into the sun more or less) but the medians are pretty inconsistently spaced apart. I measured some at ~4500ft and some at nearly 1.5 miles. I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison.
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I'm pretty certain they used the exact same section of the highway, because you can see the cactus on the right perfectly matches.

upload_2020-10-26_1-46-51.png



You can see the same cactuses (cacti?) at the coordinates I linked:

upload_2020-10-26_1-47-52.png



Eunos_Cosmo
If that bolded bit is true, we are not watching footage from the 331mph run because that clearly didn't happen. Also, if you watch the full SSC video, the mph readout on the cluster is blurred out and also does not appear to match the telemetry (for instance, pause that video at 1:30 and the telemetry indicates 312mph but the instrument cluster in the car appears to be reading 278, which is an enormous difference). I'd hazard a guess footage of the initial 300mph run is used in the promotional material because it has the driver celebrating. If he really did have an experience that shook him, I doubt he would have been celebrating, and it wouldn't have been good footage for promotion.
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People in the Reddit thread also noticed the number discrepancies in the telemetry and instrument cluster. I definitely agree with the fact that they most likely used video from a different run and overlayed their 331 mph run data, but again I think it's an extremely odd risk to take. They're risking a pretty big PR disaster and suspicion in their brand and in return they get a few more extra clicks and articles written about them? Perhaps I'm overblowing this, but it's a strange decision to make
 
ProjectWHaT
People in the Reddit thread also noticed the number discrepancies in the telemetry and instrument cluster. I definitely agree with the fact that they most likely used video from a different run and overlayed their 331 mph run data, but again I think it's an extremely odd risk to take. They're risking a pretty big PR disaster and suspicion in their brand and in return they get a few more extra clicks and articles written about them? Perhaps I'm overblowing this, but it's a strange decision to make
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I think you are. It's a certified record.
 
I feel like there's a mismatch in the data - it doesn't match the footage. It's a few seconds ahead and I think it's throwing people off. Listen to the car - Olli Web's foot is still pinned to the floor after the data indicates 331MPH. He rolls out of the throttle about 12 seconds after that speed is reached in the data. I think it's legitimate.
 
Ive seen further evidence online suggesting that with the transmission this car has, in 6th gear (which is the gear used for top speed in these runs) and with the size of PSC2 tires fitted, at the 8800RPM redline the car is capable of, a max speed of roughly 290MPH is possible.

So unless there were significant changes made to the transmission to allow the car to reach 331, or unless it was revving at 12,000RPM, thats another big issue we’ve yet to figure out. You’d think they would’ve stated if they had changed the final drive ratio for the purposes of this record.

I’ve also been told that Guinness was not present for this, contrary to initial reports.
 
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SSC being real sus at the moment. I hope they didn't just blow all their credibility just after coming out of hibernation.
 
Jerod Shelby has commented that there's been a video mix-up and the telemetry was overlaid on the wrong clip by mistake, but SSC will republish the correct clip as soon as it can. He's also added that the SSC team used Dewetron equipment which it was trained in remotely, and the telemetry and equipment has been sent to Guinness World Records.
 
There's some Q&A regarding the video on topgear.com

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/ssc-responds-331mph-video-accusations

In other words, SSC is admitting that footage from two different runs was compiled to make the released film, and those runs weren’t perfectly synchronised. SSC goes on to state that they’ll be releasing further footage as soon as they can, and that after Dewetron’s statement that they weren’t involved in the set-up, approval or validation of the runs, SSC is “submitting the Dewetron equipment and speed sensor for further analysis and verification of that equipment’s accuracy”. And it is of course the data analysis, rather than the film, that will provide the final proof.
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Eunos_Cosmo
You know..I was just thinking....this will probably be the last ICE-powered car to hold the production car speed record. Whatever goes faster will probably be electric.
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Not necessarily, Here is my prediction. We go back to ice eventually when all the politicians have milked giving grants to renewable energy companies they secretly have shares in and people realise renewable energy is worse for the environment than what we already have.

LeGeNd-1
Most likely the data and video just doesn't match up and they thought it's good enough for that purpose. The Top Gear article also mentioned they have GPS tracking and Guinness officials on site. Would be hard to fool those.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/sscs-tuatara-fastest-car-world-331mph-top-speed
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Considering you have to pay to be in the Guinness records I'm not so sure. Would they even check if it's a legit production car and not tuned?
 
Full statement from Shelby:


I still think it's a honest mistake from whoever edited/uploaded the video, but the longer we go without seeing the actual footage (which may not even have been recorded according to Jerod :crazy:), the more suspicious the whole thing seems. At this point, re-running the whole thing with third party verification (data + in person) seems to be the best solution.

I don't know how you can go through the hard part, building the car, closing the road, hiring a driver and getting all the heli/cams/telemetry set up and then drop the ball on the actual video proof. I mean I've seen amateur top speed runs that had better organisation than this...
 
Vegard
So I guess that means the telemetry that was sent to Guinness hasn't been accepted as evidence of a record run?
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Probably not. Someone mentioned earlier that officials have to present in person for records to count. And it's pretty easy to tamper with in car telemetry I imagine.
 
Pretty sure there was some more miscommunication somewhere because Guinness definitely did NOT verify the record

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/21/the-ssc-tuatara-is-now-the-worlds-fastest-car-316-mph-photos-.html

Meanwhile, Car and Driver notes that officials were on hand to verify that the Tuatara’s world record attempt “was measured and tested in accordance with Guinness specifications, but has not yet officially been certified by Guinness as a world record.

A Guinness World Records spokesperson told CNBC Make It in a statement that the organization is “aware of the recent SSC Tuatara attempt, although Guinness World Records was not present in any capacity, and we have not verified this as a new record.”

“To accurately judge and award a record for the fastest production car, Guinness World Records requires each car in contention for the record to undergo the same independent testing, eliminating any margin for error and allowing us to arrive at a fair conclusion in this highly competitive field,” the spokesperson said in the statement.
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This is the problem with almost all modern journalism. People just regurgitate press releases without actually doing any investigation. People claim Guinness certified it, other sources and blogs copy it and people believe it's fact. At least CNBC actually asked Guinness themselves to see if it's true :lol:
 
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So essentially it’s a PR-stunt that backfired because they chose to put the telemetry of the fastest run over a video of a slower run, likely because the video of the fastest run would make the car look like a complete death trap given the statement about crosswinds and a near miss.
 
eran0004
So essentially it’s a PR-stunt that backfired because they chose to put the telemetry of the fastest run over a video of a slower run, likely because the video of the fastest run would make the car look like a complete death trap given the statement about crosswinds and a near miss.
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The crosswind story is nuts, I can't help but wonder if they need to research crosswind aero before pursuing higher speeds.
 
Paulie
The crosswind story is nuts, I can't help but wonder if they need to research crosswind aero before pursuing higher speeds.
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That, and probably some kind of autopilot or assist that can react faster than the driver to correct the course.
 
eran0004
So essentially it’s a PR-stunt that backfired because they chose to put the telemetry of the fastest run over a video of a slower run, likely because the video of the fastest run would make the car look like a complete death trap given the statement about crosswinds and a near miss.
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Except the sound of the video lines up almost perfectly with the telemetry (acceleration rates, shift points, deceleration when the run is over) so it doesn’t even seem to be the wrong video for the telemetry.
It’s literally just as if SSC put a line of code that says (output_speed = rec_speed * 1.3) and used the higher speed.
 

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