Standard rear toe .20 to .60 now?

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PlayerONE7125

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For the longest time every car had a rear toe of .20, now they all show .60. Whether + or - i forget, but either way this changes handling dramatically. When did this happen? Talk about tire scrub. Is this a way of "improving physics"? Just change the settings on each car and say you improved the handling. Anything over -/+ .3 will slow the car down and wear the tires quite a bit quicker. Small incriments have such a big effect on toe, and i wonder why this was done?
 
I've got to believe this is a mistake. 0.20 was bad enough, 0.60 makes cars sluggish and unresponsive.
 
Johnnypenso
I've got to believe this is a mistake. 0.20 was bad enough, 0.60 makes cars sluggish and unresponsive.
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I know right, I thought it was just me. I havent been on in a while. Was it this last update?? I heard they fixed camber and improved MR cars, but things still feel the same.
 
The new VW Vision GTI was .6 but I changed it to .23 and also basically flipped the spring settings so tfo to is stiffer than rear. Car handles better now to me.
 
PlayerONE7125
I know right, I thought it was just me. I havent been on in a while. Was it this last update?? I heard they fixed camber and improved MR cars, but things still feel the same.
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Correct. Many cars come with stock 0.60 now. On top of that, now that camber works, some of them come with higher rear camber which makes the rear end even more sticky. It's ruined stock/spec racing for me. I'm sure the MR's will be alright but many of the other cars will be awful. Thanks PD:tdown:👎
 
I haven't had a chance to drive since the update yet, but hearing this has me really concerned. I don't know if this was supposed to somehow balance out the changes they made, but it seems rather extreme and to me 0.20 was already too high for the way it worked before. I usually drive stock cars myself, and could deal with the unpleasant stock toe, but as soon as I bought a suspension the first thing I always did was drop it to .05 and work from there.

I don't want to have to buy suspension for every car(which changes them no matter what else you do, and makes them no longer eligible for stock events) just to make the cars driveable. :( Is it really that bad? If so I hope they can be convinced to change it right away like some of their other ill-conccieved experiments.
 
super_gt
After update 1.09 GT6 physics was improved and the rear end of the cars become more unstable,more tail happy.
Therefor PD make stock rear toe angle 0.60. and strange camber angles.
@Johnnypenso I do not think that's a mistake.
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I agree, it seems like the physics changes are for serious players, but they changed the stock settings for casual players. I think what PD are missing is that casuals will whack on racing suspension and adjust it whether they know what they're doing or not, and serious players are more likely to want to drive stock cars so they can have a more even race. Hopefully there'll be some tweaks soon.
 
Johnnypenso
I've got to believe this is a mistake. 0.20 was bad enough, 0.60 makes cars sluggish and unresponsive.
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That was going to be my question. Im still playing with the settings on my cars to find out, But has anyone found any cars that respond well to the .60 stock settings? should i change this for every car that comes with this as stock settings?

super_gt
After update 1.09 GT6 physics was improved and the rear end of the cars become more unstable,more tail happy.
Therefor PD make stock rear toe angle 0.60. and strange camber angles.
@Johnnypenso I do not think that's a mistake.
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should i lower the camber settings? Would anyone know of a good setting for a max camber or toe? i don't really go passed -20/20 for toe and 1.5 for camber, should i be going higher than this?

Thank you everyone:p and sorry if my questions are silly. Only started tuning myself towards the end of GT5 and still new to this.:boggled:
 
GTP_Richtofen
That was going to be my question. Im still playing with the settings on my cars to find out, But has anyone found any cars that respond well to the .60 stock settings? should i change this for every car that comes with this as stock settings?


should i lower the camber settings? Would anyone know of a good setting for a max camber or toe? i don't really go passed -20/20 for toe and 1.5 for camber, should i be going higher than this?

Thank you everyone:p and sorry if my questions are silly. Only started tuning myself towards the end of GT5 and still new to this.:boggled:
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I haven't tested camber in GT6 but for GT5 my general rule of thumb for FR's, MR's and RR's was to start with -.10/+.10 toe. Add more + to the rear for more stability if needed. For 4WD and FF's it was -.10/-.10.

For camber I usually started with 1.5/1.0 for comforts, 2.0/1.5 for sports and 2.5/2.0 for racing tires. RR's and usually MR's often higher rear than front, sometimes zero in front. FF's sometimes as low as zero in the rear.
 
Johnnypenso
I haven't tested camber in GT6 but for GT5 my general rule of thumb for FR's, MR's and RR's was to start with -.10/+.10 toe. Add more + to the rear for more stability if needed. For 4WD and FF's it was -.10/-.10.

For camber I usually started with 1.5/1.0 for comforts, 2.0/1.5 for sports and 2.5/2.0 for racing tires. RR's and usually MR's often higher rear than front, sometimes zero in front. FF's sometimes as low as zero in the rear.
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Great thank you! And here was me thinking the bigger numbers meant more grip:O:rolleyes:
So is it safe to say for toe stay away from going past +/-30 and for camber stay under 4/5
 
GTP_Richtofen
Great thank you! And here was me thinking the bigger numbers meant more grip:O:rolleyes:
So is it safe to say for toe stay away from going past +/-30 and for camber stay under 4/5
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I tuned 5 or 6 cars on the fly last night in a 400PP Comfort Soft room at the Red Bull Ring and it worked on all of them. An MR, two FF's and three FR's. Added custom suspension but left most of it stock except slightly harder springs and adjusting camber and toe as above. Worked like a charm.
 
This is what stopped me getting into GT6 the way i did with GT5.
The way the MR cars handle, the non working camber and strange behaviour of Racing tyres i was sure it was wrong and so i waited for an update before tuning cars.

It looked as if things were going to stay the way they were but then this update comes out and now everyone has to retune all their cars.

But it doesn't end there, now it looks as if this isn't correct either so again the wait for an update to fix it begins again but with no communication we don't know if or when they are going to.
In the meantime we either retune and play with cars we know are wrong or we don't play and wait!

It's craziness!
It's the whole core of the game, the most important part.
The one thing to do in a racing sim is make sure the physics and aero are working perfectly before release.

How can i enjoy a game/sim if i know the physics are not as intended and as close to the real car as is possible in a game (within reason obviously)We buy GT for its realism, if i wanted made up physics i could buy NFS.
 
I won't stop driving. I'm not about to give over on tuning.

But the gist of the dialog between PD and the playerbase is well summed in @phil_75 's post above. I'd r-e-a-l-l-y like to see this problem sorted within the next couple of months.

If the PD Live team are really now working on GT6 - with GT5 closed down - this should be on the priority pick list.

And, it would be very good form when they do have it sorted, to post a primer on how all this works in the PD universe.
 
Johnnypenso
I tuned 5 or 6 cars on the fly last night in a 400PP Comfort Soft room at the Red Bull Ring and it worked on all of them. An MR, two FF's and three FR's. Added custom suspension but left most of it stock except slightly harder springs and adjusting camber and toe as above. Worked like a charm.
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So are you saying you left the cars at the .60? I'm just trying to get an idea of where i should stay while tuning. But if you think that the full 1 thru 10 settings can be used, than i guess it just depends on the car.
 
GTP_Richtofen
So are you saying you left the cars at the .60? I'm just trying to get an idea of where i should stay while tuning. But if you think that the full 1 thru 10 settings can be used, than i guess it just depends on the car.
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Added custom suspension but left most of it stock except slightly harder springs and adjusting camber and toe as above.
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These new changes (the increased stock toe and changed physics) have gotten my head in quite a mess. I am FAR from a great driver to begin with. I have a few cars that I finally got setup perfectly to match my driving style and last night proved that I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board with most of them.

One thing that I noticed last night that was a most welcome surprise - I took two of my RUF's out. The RGT '00 and CTR2 '96 both drive splendidly now. It seems like PD has tamed those rear engine hooligans. I had a lot of fun with the RGT '00 on Willow Springs, a track that I used to constantly spin that car out on...
 
Johnnypenso
No problem, not easy to communicate here sometimes. 👍👍

I'd also recommend Motor City Hami's GT6 Tuning Guide for general reference. It's a long read, but it covers just about everything.
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Is it still relevent considering they changed the phyisics? They supposedly changed the way camber effects cars, so would you say camber is fixed? And they changed each cars stock toe settings, so i imagine they changed the effect toe has on cars. And i never understood the ride height glitch, so would you say ride height is the same since day one? Im sorry for so many ??'s but you seem to be one of the few with all the answers that actually knows what they're talking about.
 
PlayerONE7125
Is it still relevent considering they changed the phyisics? They supposedly changed the way camber effects cars, so would you say camber is fixed? And they changed each cars stock toe settings, so i imagine they changed the effect toe has on cars. And i never understood the ride height glitch, so would you say ride height is the same since day one? Im sorry for so many ??'s but you seem to be one of the few with all the answers that actually knows what they're talking about.
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I have been working with a few cars since the update and except for minor adjustments, I believe @Motor City Hami's Guide should be correct. He will be working on creating a new guide for the new physics though. I would also suggest reading through @DolHaus' General Tuning Guide which I find very helpful also.
 
PlayerONE7125
Is it still relevent considering they changed the phyisics? They supposedly changed the way camber effects cars, so would you say camber is fixed? And they changed each cars stock toe settings, so i imagine they changed the effect toe has on cars. And i never understood the ride height glitch, so would you say ride height is the same since day one? Im sorry for so many ??'s but you seem to be one of the few with all the answers that actually knows what they're talking about.
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Hami will update his guide as soon as the new physics parameters are fully vetted.

Toe still works the same way, I think it's a glitch that they put 0.60 toe on stock cars, I can't see any functional reason for doing so. But the in's and outs (pardon the pun) of tuning with toe settings are still the same. The ride height glitch also persists. Basically the opposite of what the guide says seems to be true. Raise the front for more oversteer, lower the front for more understeer.

Camber also seems to be working as it should now. More camber up front gives more turning grip on the front, more on the back gives more turning grip on the back. The effect is fairly small on lap times but more than noticable for feel.
 
I tested ride height at indy on my toyota gt-one, raised the back all the way up and lowered the front all the way down. The front was swerving all over and it looked like it was scraping the road. I figured the front was bottoming out. Then i raised the front 15 incriments and left the back the same, and the car handled great the front had nice grip and the back rotated around those sweeping turns really well. Then i checked the data logger and its saying that my car was lower on the lap that i did when my front ride height was raised. Very odd. I did ok tuning wise in gt5, but for this game Im getting totally confused with it. I feel like it keeps majorly changing and my cars feel different everyweek. You guys gotta admit the toe thing is rediculous, and there not even bothering to hide that they're quickly turning this game into a guinea pig for gt7. I have a feeling alot of people are going to put this game down for a few weeks, or months even, giving pd time to work out the kinks.
 
Johnnypenso
Hami will update his guide as soon as the new physics parameters are fully vetted.

Toe still works the same way, I think it's a glitch that they put 0.60 toe on stock cars, I can't see any functional reason for doing so. But the in's and outs (pardon the pun) of tuning with toe settings are still the same. The ride height glitch also persists. Basically the opposite of what the guide says seems to be true. Raise the front for more oversteer, lower the front for more understeer.

Camber also seems to be working as it should now. More camber up front gives more turning grip on the front, more on the back gives more turning grip on the back. The effect is fairly small on lap times but more than noticable for feel.
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I dont like GT camber it makes the car to turn better in slow corners but in fast corners makes the car to understeer!It seems to me unreal fake for DS3 users!
 
I noticed the toe change too. Big toe changes have occurred especially in LMP cars, they now have -0.50 Front and +1.00 Rear. I really don't see how this is "improving physics" according to PD. :odd:
 
Tuning in GT6 went from "yea its not that bad, theres a ride height glitch and camber reduces grip, but its still cool" to "wtf am i looking at". Grid autosport comes out this week, and project cars, driveclub, and the crew come out in the fall. Assetto corsa comes out next year. Both PD and Turn 10 got too comfortable and realeased unfinished games. Id hate to see the Gran Turismo/Forza era come to an end but they're bringing it on themselves. Even if GT7 turns out amazing, like what GT5 was supposed to be like and more, it wouldnt mean a thing because their burning their fan base.
 
I've only had the game a week so not experienced handling before 1.09, and wondered why even stock cars (BRZ for example) are hard to get the rear end loose without mis-matching tyres.
Stupid amounts of toe-in out the back is obviously the reason.
Would be nice to have stock cars handle as close as possible to the real world.
 
Robbks
I've only had the game a week so not experienced handling before 1.09, and wondered why even stock cars (BRZ for example) are hard to get the rear end loose without mis-matching tyres.
Stupid amounts of toe-in out the back is obviously the reason.
Would be nice to have stock cars handle as close as possible to the real world.
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Just checking, do you have SRF and traction control off in the driving options on the race screen?
 
Certainly do.
You just need to be very aggressive to get the thing loose at all.
Having driven the real thing, its nowhere near that grippy
The front end feels fine though.
 
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