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They probably wouldn't even cast a Māori actor...
STAR WARS General Discussion | Warning: Possible SPOILERS!Movies
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The wife hated it. I liked it, with reservations. I see that they didn't take up my survival horror take on the script, though:
The last fifteen minutes are exactly what I imagined the end of the movie should be. Only with the Rogue One team being the ones offed by Vader. I think that was a wasted opportunity, really.
There was a lot of action, and the plot came together nicely at the end of the film. There are some set-up scenes I would have skipped, simplified or combined for better narrative flow, and there were glimmers of an even grittier, more effective war movie underneath that weren't really explored enough.
For one, we do NOT need to see Jyn in jail before being transported. She could have woken up straight in the transport, and we could have gotten more character development in exposition in conversation with the prisoner across from her.
Also, the capture of Rook was rather unnecessary. You can jump straight into his "interrogation" at the hands of Saw Gerrera.
This would free up space to build up and introduce Chirrut and Baze properly.
The introduction of Andor killing the collaborator was unnecessary. This paints him more as a ruthless double agent rather than a conflicted rebel. Better if he was absolutely forced to kill him rather than kiling him straight in cold blood.
Also, the capture of Rook was rather unnecessary. You can jump straight into his "interrogation" at the hands of Saw Gerrera.
This would free up space to build up and introduce Chirrut and Baze properly.
The introduction of Andor killing the collaborator was unnecessary. This paints him more as a ruthless double agent rather than a conflicted rebel. Better if he was absolutely forced to kill him rather than kiling him straight in cold blood.
While the end of the movie was action-packed, and in parts, gut-wrenching, this brought up a problem: Too many significant events occuring in close proximity lessens the impact of each significant event.
It was simply treated too much like a war movie. Senseless deaths that happened simply because. In the end, the characters fall like the side-characters they are to the main continuity. Killed by faceless mooks instead of dying gloriously by the hands of the big bad.
This is why I like the survival horror approach better. Horror movies understand that you spread out the deaths. It gives them more emotional impact.
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Personally, I would have kept Rook's and K2S0's deaths the same, while Baze dies in the group's retreat. Baze's last words would be: "If the Force is with you, friend, look for me there!" before going out in a blaze of glory.
Chirrut, Andor and Jyn survive and make it to an escape shuttle as the facility is blown up. They make it to the flagship with the data disk, being unable to transmit from the surface. Here stormtroopers invade as they transfer the data to the disk that finally gets to Senator Organa. Chirrut is the first to die, at the hands of Darth Vader in a drawn out fencing battle (honestly, isn't that part what we were all waiting for?), while the others escape.
Jyn and Andor have their moment by an escape pod, then Vader strikes again. Deus Ex Machina, they get saved by a bunch of guards, who then get offed. Andor gives Jyn a kiss goodbye, shoves her into the shuttle, and walks up to Vader wearing a belt full of grenades. That's the last she sees of him. Her escape pod, however, is damaged. Leaking air.
She dies before getting to Senator Organa's ship. After scrawling the word "Hope" on the frosted up window.
Cheerier ending, right?
This is why I like the survival horror approach better. Horror movies understand that you spread out the deaths. It gives them more emotional impact.
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Personally, I would have kept Rook's and K2S0's deaths the same, while Baze dies in the group's retreat. Baze's last words would be: "If the Force is with you, friend, look for me there!" before going out in a blaze of glory.
Chirrut, Andor and Jyn survive and make it to an escape shuttle as the facility is blown up. They make it to the flagship with the data disk, being unable to transmit from the surface. Here stormtroopers invade as they transfer the data to the disk that finally gets to Senator Organa. Chirrut is the first to die, at the hands of Darth Vader in a drawn out fencing battle (honestly, isn't that part what we were all waiting for?), while the others escape.
Jyn and Andor have their moment by an escape pod, then Vader strikes again. Deus Ex Machina, they get saved by a bunch of guards, who then get offed. Andor gives Jyn a kiss goodbye, shoves her into the shuttle, and walks up to Vader wearing a belt full of grenades. That's the last she sees of him. Her escape pod, however, is damaged. Leaking air.
She dies before getting to Senator Organa's ship. After scrawling the word "Hope" on the frosted up window.
Cheerier ending, right?
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- Hammerhead Garage
Cheerier ending, right?
I could get behind that, but I wouldn't kill everyone (also, your suggestion for Jyn's death sounds a lot like the original script for Alien, where Ripley is cornered by the xenomorph in an escape pod). If I did, I certainly wouldn't have them all go out in a blaze of glory. That's why I liked Rook's death - it was quick, unexpected and he couldn't cheat his way out of it. There was no noble sacrifice or do-it-for-me speech. It reminded me of Paul Ballard's death in "Dollhouse"; he gets hit by a stray bullet as the group evacuate, and nobody has time to process it because they're all fleeing themselves.
I would play up Krennic's arrogance, and have him emboldened by the attack on Jedha. The decentralised Alliance finally unites, but this is a fatal mistake; Krennic intends to crush them once and for all. His fatal mistake is that he ignores the Death Star's test programme. This enable Galen to send falsified test data to the Death Star, so that the lasers are misaligned. Krennic parks the Death Star over the Rebel base, prompting them to flee to their secondary base on Yavin 4.
Rather than kill him outright, I would have him live, but break him. Galen's sabotage causes the Death Star to explode (turning it into the Second Death Star), but when Jyn and/or Cassian confront him, they prolong the fight long enough for Krennic to see what his hubris has wrought. Grand Moff Tarkin then re-commissions the compromised prototype Death Star to attack the Rebels in A New Hope (its decommissioning being the result of engineer flaws implied to be Galen's doing) and ordering the remains of the Second Death Star to be salvaged.
I would play up Krennic's arrogance, and have him emboldened by the attack on Jedha. The decentralised Alliance finally unites, but this is a fatal mistake; Krennic intends to crush them once and for all. His fatal mistake is that he ignores the Death Star's test programme. This enable Galen to send falsified test data to the Death Star, so that the lasers are misaligned. Krennic parks the Death Star over the Rebel base, prompting them to flee to their secondary base on Yavin 4.
Rather than kill him outright, I would have him live, but break him. Galen's sabotage causes the Death Star to explode (turning it into the Second Death Star), but when Jyn and/or Cassian confront him, they prolong the fight long enough for Krennic to see what his hubris has wrought. Grand Moff Tarkin then re-commissions the compromised prototype Death Star to attack the Rebels in A New Hope (its decommissioning being the result of engineer flaws implied to be Galen's doing) and ordering the remains of the Second Death Star to be salvaged.
CodeRedR51
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What's with you and this multiple Death Star idea?
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What's with you and this multiple Death Star idea?
It took them twenty-odd years to build the first one, and less than three to build the second.
To my mind, the answer is pretty straight forward - the First Death Star was a prototype that suffered from multiple design flaws, like this:
What they didn't count on was Galen Erso sabotaging it. Because of the phenomenal amount of power involved, the Empire couldn't simply fire it at 100% power and expect it to work. Instead, they had to fire it at 10% power, then recalibrate the position of the crystals to improve firing efficiency and cope with the increased demands. Then they fire it at 20% power and repeat the process. Realising that it is only a matter of time before the Death Star is fully operational, Galen tampers with the firing data so that the crystals are incorrectly calibrated. The next time the Death Star fires, it causes a catastrophic failure that destroys 60% of the Death Star's mass.
This represents an enormous victory for the fledgling Rebellion. Now under one leadership, they can be a serious threat to the Empire. So Tarkin re-commissions the First Death Star, even though he knows that the design is flawed. The remains of the Second Death Star are salvaged with the intention of restoring it to be operation.
This version gives the Rebels an enormous victory in Rogue One whilst simultaneously explaining the Death Star in A New Hope had such a serious design flaw that allowed it to be destroyed by two proton torpedoes.
To my mind, the answer is pretty straight forward - the First Death Star was a prototype that suffered from multiple design flaws, like this:
- The reactor generated far too much heat, so the solution was to add auxiliary exhaust ports.
- The auxiliary exhaust ports were a weakness that could be exploited, so they were armed and armoured.
- The additional weight of the weapons and armour meant that the mass of the Death Star was too great for the hyperdrive to manage.
- The size of the Death Star was reduced so that the hyperdrive would work.
- The reduced size meant that the primary laser was down on power and/or took too long to be recharged.
- The power to the primary laser was increased, but this meant that the reactor generated too much heat.
What they didn't count on was Galen Erso sabotaging it. Because of the phenomenal amount of power involved, the Empire couldn't simply fire it at 100% power and expect it to work. Instead, they had to fire it at 10% power, then recalibrate the position of the crystals to improve firing efficiency and cope with the increased demands. Then they fire it at 20% power and repeat the process. Realising that it is only a matter of time before the Death Star is fully operational, Galen tampers with the firing data so that the crystals are incorrectly calibrated. The next time the Death Star fires, it causes a catastrophic failure that destroys 60% of the Death Star's mass.
This represents an enormous victory for the fledgling Rebellion. Now under one leadership, they can be a serious threat to the Empire. So Tarkin re-commissions the First Death Star, even though he knows that the design is flawed. The remains of the Second Death Star are salvaged with the intention of restoring it to be operation.
This version gives the Rebels an enormous victory in Rogue One whilst simultaneously explaining the Death Star in A New Hope had such a serious design flaw that allowed it to be destroyed by two proton torpedoes.
CodeRedR51
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You watched the movie right? They already did that.
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Galen only explained that he built a flaw into the reactor so that if it was hit by a proton torpedo, it would explode.
What it doesn't explain is why the Death Star was so poorly designed as to have a pipe running directly from the outside to the core.
What it doesn't explain is why the Death Star was so poorly designed as to have a pipe running directly from the outside to the core.
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That is part of the intentionally designed vulnerability that he would have explained in pseudo technobabble as to why it's needed.
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Still seems pretty flimsy to me.
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Saw it again, because my brother's birthday was today and he wanted everyone to see it as a family. Wanted to say that, in addition to the middling early part of the movie still being pretty bleh after seeing it with the end in mind, I think it also expanded on one of the few things that I thought VII did better (albeit not consistently at all) than any of the other movies: scale.
This is the first movie in the franchise I think that really got across just how big and dangerous the Death Star was (and makes the Death Star x 100 escalation from VII seem even more trite than it already did) and how big some of the vehicles are; but even moreso the scale of the actual fighting. It's a problem a lot of movies that have lots of aerial engagements (be it in space or Top Gun style or whatever) really don't convey and the franchise never did fantastically, and staging all of the fights the way they did in this one really helped put everything into context fantastically.
It reminded me quite a bit of the parts of Pearl Harbor that were done well.
This is the first movie in the franchise I think that really got across just how big and dangerous the Death Star was (and makes the Death Star x 100 escalation from VII seem even more trite than it already did) and how big some of the vehicles are; but even moreso the scale of the actual fighting. It's a problem a lot of movies that have lots of aerial engagements (be it in space or Top Gun style or whatever) really don't convey and the franchise never did fantastically, and staging all of the fights the way they did in this one really helped put everything into context fantastically.
It reminded me quite a bit of the parts of Pearl Harbor that were done well.
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I get the feeling that ...
The director promised that he would include every X-wing destruction the writers could think of. So the film wound up with X-wings crashing into planetary shields, being hit by Star Destroyers as they exit hyperspace, getting wings shot off, and so on and so forth.
I was both amazed and pleasantly surprised that the film managed to balance everything that was going on in the aerial battles and ground war. It's really, really easy to get carried away with scenes like this, and wind up creating an unbalanced and chaotic mess as the audience lose all sense of geography and the space between characters relative to one another. So I think it's a massive achievement that the film can pull off a ground war, an aerial battle, a space battle and the infiltration of the base simultaneously in a way that is exciting and engaging and never leaves the audience wanting to skip ahead to the next scene.
I was both amazed and pleasantly surprised that the film managed to balance everything that was going on in the aerial battles and ground war. It's really, really easy to get carried away with scenes like this, and wind up creating an unbalanced and chaotic mess as the audience lose all sense of geography and the space between characters relative to one another. So I think it's a massive achievement that the film can pull off a ground war, an aerial battle, a space battle and the infiltration of the base simultaneously in a way that is exciting and engaging and never leaves the audience wanting to skip ahead to the next scene.
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Fair enough, but:
The ending on the beach felt way too "Deep Impact" for me.
Fair enough. But as it is, too many of the deaths are random, and in Chirrut's case, random but extremely choreographed.
By the third or fourth death, you are already expecting everyone left to die.
By the third or fourth death, you are already expecting everyone left to die.
CodeRedR51
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I liked it. Fits in well to the story. Little unnecessary with some parts, but lots of nods to the other films and possibly even nods to the series? I think a couple of characters could have seen more development, and it would have been nice to see some other notable characters for maybe a little while.
I wanted another line with R2 and 3PO. And a bit more of Vader. Speaking of Vader, I think his movement was too fast, more EpIII pre injury like and less Ep IV. I wish Admiral Ackbar was in there, even just with a line.
CodeRedR51
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Just got back from seeing it a second time. Now watching A New Hope. 👍
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i enjoyed it this first time, but I'd like to watch it again before I really pass judgement. A couple of things stood out as 'could have been done better' The R2 and Threepio cameo was cheesie and unecessary. Gov Tarkin Was too main a character to have been CGI'd. The first few times he's on screen you think 'wow, they've found an actor who looks damn similar to Peter Cushing' - then you realise it's a CGI face on another actor and that just pulls you out of the movie. Leia looked even worse. The 'on the beach waiting for certain death' was soppy and I'm sure sure I've seen something almost identical in another film? Vader wasn't well used IMO. The bacta tank scene was great, showing his weak side and linking the Vader from the prequels to the Vader we all know from the originals really well. The following scene when he meets Krenic fully suited and booted was wishy-washy when it should have been powerful and dramatic. His scene at the end when the Tantive IV escapes, had him as far too athletic, compared to how he was in A New Hope. I feel his inclusion in Rogue One was wasted overall. On the positive side I'm glad all the Rogue team died, the Imperials are really at their strongest at this point and should by all rights be able to defeat any attack the rebels can muster. There's no real point in any of them managing to get away as they're never seen again anyway, so their sacrifice is a better way of providing the story with the rebels desperate plight then adding a heroic near impossible escape in an overall story that is already littered with similar improbabilities. It added some much needed grit and realism.
CodeRedR51
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I agree. And I wonder how they got from Yavin IV base to Leia's ship over the course of that battle which wasn't very long.
I thought that the first time I watched it, mainly because I knew he was CGI (I actually knew before even seeing the movie) but on my second viewing I just marveled at how great it was done. It wasn't perfect, and you can still see some improvements that need to be made in motions, but it won't be long now until we won't be able to tell at all. CGI is just getting that good. I do agree on Leia, but I think the brightly lit room and the zoom in right to her face didn't help.
Deep Impact.
You're in the minority there I think. 95% of what I have read so far has people going so far as to say that is one of, if not the best scene in a Star Wars movie for them. I do agree with them mostly. Side note: I think the shot of Krennic standing in that room as the door opened and you could see Vader's shadow on the wall as it went up was a fantastic shot.
While mostly true, the galaxy is a big place. Doesn't mean one or more of them couldn't have gone into hiding.
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I assume they were assigned to one of the ships in the Rebel fleet. Leia's ship was docked with the Rebel command ship, and Bail Organa was present while the senior Rebels debated their next move. R2-D2 and C-3P0 were probably part of his contingent, and assigned to stay with Leia while Bail returned to Alderaan.
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I thought it was kind of well-suggested that Leia's ship is docked with the flagship during the battle. Bail already set into motion the plan to leave her as a courier when we last see him, I believe.
Mentioned it here:
And the near identical circumstances of both events put me completely out of the moment.
Felt the same way about:
Jyn's viewing of the holographic message. Way too soppy. A little quivering, a small tear would have been appropriate. Or a stony-faced viewing followed by perhaps a look away. Over-telegraphed. Ruins the moment.
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We only see the corvette depart the flagship. It's heavily implied that Leia was aboard, but we never see her. It's entirely possible that there was an off-camera rendezvous to pass the plans on and make it harder for the Empire to track them. Especially if the plan was to take the schematics to Alderaan or Yavin 4.
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I think it's understandable why they did that. They wanted to save the big reveal for last... which... predictably... drove fanboys nuts... though we already had an idea that she would be there, since Bail mentioned her indirectly and the Corvette... well... that's a dead giveaway.
Too bad the CGI didn't hold out as well as Tarkin.
I didn't realize he was CGI until his third or fourth scene.
Too bad the CGI didn't hold out as well as Tarkin.
I didn't realize he was CGI until his third or fourth scene.
CodeRedR51
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I think i definitely need to watch it again. Perhaps this time with a little less beer in me in need of escape. My concentration levels weren't at their sharpest.
I still think their deaths served more purpose in showing how ruthless, powerful and massive the Empire are compared to the rebels. As far as the overall Star Wars saga goes, the Rogue One squad are bit players. They aren't around long enough for you to gain any attachment. Knowing they manage to escape really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. If there's one thing that the original trilogy, and The Force Awakens too for that matter, never really portrayed well, was the overwhelming size and power of the Imperial forces. Aside from kicking the rebel's asses on Hoth and maybe having the upper hand initially at the Battle of Endor, the Imperials have largely appeared to be ineffectual and poorly organised, from the comedical poor performance of stormtroopers to the lack of strategic knowledge from star destroyer commanders, these are not the actions of a galaxy-controlling 'empire'
CodeRedR51
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Saw Gerrera will make an appearance in the next couple episodes of Rebels, and Forest Whitaker will be doing the voice.
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016...errera-and-his-debut-on-star-wars-rebels.html
Also, Rebels & Rogue One tie-in info: (spoiler warning for those that haven't seen the movie)
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016...star-wars-rebels-easter-egg-in-rogue-one.html
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016...errera-and-his-debut-on-star-wars-rebels.html
Also, Rebels & Rogue One tie-in info: (spoiler warning for those that haven't seen the movie)
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016...star-wars-rebels-easter-egg-in-rogue-one.html
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It will be very cool to see Saw Gerrera in Rebels.
I missed seeing Chopper in Rogue One. His appearance is very brief. I did catch the reference to Hera in the movie. I missed seeing the Ghost on Yavin IV, but did see it multiple times later on in the movie.
Speaking of animated series, I have nearly finished The Clone Wars. I have nine more episodes to watch, not including the unfinished story reels.
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I did feel that he was under-used in the film, probably because the story opened up some very interesting avenues that it never really pursued (probably because it started straying into uncomfortable territory):
He was branded an extremist by the Rebel command, but as far as I could tell, all he really did was take action when the Rebel command sat around talking without achieving anything. Some of his methods - like the mind-reading alien that drove its subjects insane - were unsavoury, but for the most part, Gerrera wasn't doing anything that the Rebel Alliance wasn't already doing.
I don't know if it was intentional, but there is the potential for some social commentary here: the Empire is analogous to Bashar al Assad, and the city on Jedha is akin to Aleppo. That would make Mon Mothma a stand-in for Samantha Powers, and Gerrera and his group of insurgents the anti-Assad forces supported by the West (but only if and when it's convenient). And I suppose Darth Vader is Vladimir Putin.
I don't know if it was intentional, but there is the potential for some social commentary here: the Empire is analogous to Bashar al Assad, and the city on Jedha is akin to Aleppo. That would make Mon Mothma a stand-in for Samantha Powers, and Gerrera and his group of insurgents the anti-Assad forces supported by the West (but only if and when it's convenient). And I suppose Darth Vader is Vladimir Putin.
CodeRedR51
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Carrie Fisher Suffers Severe Heart Attack Aboard An Airplane
Damnit 2016, not another one. This one stays!
Damnit 2016, not another one. This one stays!
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Carrie Fisher Suffers Severe Heart Attack Aboard An Airplane
Damnit 2016, not another one. This one stays!
Sorry dude, it's 2016's call to make. We'll have to wait and see
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