[Still a Rumour.] Ferrari may bail out Sauber to pave way for Alfa Romeo return

Alfa Romeo's return to F1 will be:


  • Total voters
    63
9,401
Australia
Western Sydney
mustafur
Do you honestly think that Mercedes' decision to compete as a German team has to do with German nationalism? Or is it because the team is wholly owned by Mercedes-Benz, globally recognised as a German car manufacturer?

Teams base themselves in Britain because that's where the knowledge and expertise is to be found. That's where the suppliers are based. That's where the infrastructure is to be found. Being based in Britain means running out of Heathrow and Gatwick, two of the most accessible points on the face of the earth. Say I want to set up a team in Australia and compete as an Australian team. Every single race (except Melbourne) becomes a flyaway race then.

Look at Toyota - one of the mistakes they made was to set up in Cologne. It was where Team Toyota Europe were based, but they had trouble attracting staff and finding suppliers. The same thing happened with USF1, who established a forward base in Alcañiz.

I have heard England referred to as motorsport's Silicone Valley. And I think it's an apt comparison - the knowledge, resource, supplies and experience are all there. If you were a new team, why wouldn't you set up there? But if you do, you shouldn't be forced to identify yourself as British.
It's Basically a counter Argument to your Moldavian one, Mercedes makes the Cars at Brackley and the engines in Brixworth with the vast majority of the Workforce British and 2 of the 4 Principals British with the other 2 actually Austrian yet identifies as German(there is infact no head Staff of German Nationality).
 
22,532
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
I would like to see the HAAS budget become comparing them to other teams.

either way, the current structure in place basically has each team risk their existence to make profit, where as once your higher up in the midfield then it's a bit easier to profit.

If F1 doesn't want Customer cars then it has to share out the money better or it's not going to work.

That I can agree with.
 
926
United States
Somewhere in NY
Imspartan9002
TakeALLTheNames
UPDATE:
http://www.inautonews.com/marchionne-not-ruling-out-sauber-buyout-by-alfa-romeo
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/4fba1c/marchionne_not_ruling_out_sauber_buyout_by_alfa/

This remark was made in Shanghai this weekend by Sergio Marchionne

“This (F1) is the maximum technological expression of the automotive world,” he said on a rare paddock visit in Shanghai, “and so considering the objectives of Alfa Romeo, I think the option should be considered.

Note: The actual result of this is still largely unclear.
 

prisonermonkeys

Be Fearless
Premium
33,155
Peru
Hammerhead Garage
I can't imagine that Sauber would be enthusiastic about it, since they have been vocal opponents of the Ferrari-Haas relationship - even when restructuring along those lines would likely save them (and once they're stable, they could always separate themselves out a bit more).

If it happens, then hopefully Alfa Romeo would follow BMW's suit and keep the Sauber name. Saulfa Romeber?

It's Basically a counter Argument to your Moldavian one, Mercedes makes the Cars at Brackley and the engines in Brixworth with the vast majority of the Workforce British and 2 of the 4 Principals British with the other 2 actually Austrian yet identifies as German(there is infact no head Staff of German Nationality).
The only people who I have heard make the "you build your cars in Britain, you're a British team" argument are British fans. I'm reminded of Ted Kravitz analysing the possibility of McLaren taking Stoffel Vandoorne over Jenson Button and Lotus taking Esteban Ocon instead of Jolyon Palmer at the end of last year and expressing his disappointment at the idea of "only one Brit" on the grid. And then people wonder why I don't care for British motorsport (outside Rally GB) when fans and pundits act as if the sport owes them something for being British.

A team should be allowed to identify with whatever nationality they choose, regardless of where they build their cars or where they run their team from.
 
9,554
United States
Vermont
catamount39
So based on reading that, Marchionne wants Alfa to do it from the ground up and not purchase Sauber? Well that'd make a bit more sense. Though the bit that throws me off is "as a part of FCA, or as a part of the Scuderia". So if they came back as part of FCA they'd not be a junior Ferrari team? But if they came back with the Scuderia they would be the junior Ferrari team?
 
1,411
United States
California
WeaselKing707
N/A
So based on reading that, Marchionne wants Alfa to do it from the ground up and not purchase Sauber? Well that'd make a bit more sense. Though the bit that throws me off is "as a part of FCA, or as a part of the Scuderia". So if they came back as part of FCA they'd not be a junior Ferrari team? But if they came back with the Scuderia they would be the junior Ferrari team?

To me, it seems as though Marchionne wants a new Alfa team to be built from the ground up, but follow the HaasF1 mold (Build everything the rules say you have to, get everything else from Ferrari).
 
20,678
TenEightyOne
TenEightyOne
The "Ferrari assisted" model certainly seemed to work for Haas. There were, allegedly, sideways benefits for Ferrari too. It's a strategy that, if repeated, could allow Ferrari uccidere due uccelli con una pietra.
 
Last edited:

Liquid

Fission Mailed
Premium
25,185
Slovakia
Bratvegas
GTP_Liquid
It's not as though Toro Rosso didn't benefit from the B Team model in the past; they won a race before the senior team did! Hell, even Honda tried it with Super Aguri.
 
2,904
Jamaica
Kingston, Jamaica
pj-gm
PJwasHere876
To me, it seems as though Marchionne wants a new Alfa team to be built from the ground up, but follow the HaasF1 mold (Build everything the rules say you have to, get everything else from Ferrari).
I'd like this most. I wouldn't want another team to be a subsidiary to one of the big guys and never be allowed to be consisterly competitive. I've been loath in Torro Roso for yeas now because of this. Alfa should get help where possible but be allowed to be as good as they can be. Starting as a Ferrari B team of sorts means they will always be one and we don't want teams whose only purpose is to be a development and youth team.
 

prisonermonkeys

Be Fearless
Premium
33,155
Peru
Hammerhead Garage
I've been loath in Torro Roso for yeas now because of this.
I've never been a big fan for this very reason, but they get a pass in my book because they have brought in some great talent.

I think that the Haas model will work best if the team becomes increasingly independent. By all means, maintain a relationship with Ferrari, but don't be completely indebted to them. If Alfa did the same thing, maintaining a relationship until they were able to stand on their own two feet, it could work.
 
2,904
Jamaica
Kingston, Jamaica
pj-gm
PJwasHere876
Torro Rosso's problem is that they lose all their great talent to Red Bull eventually. They don't get to have or keep a strong lineup of drivers with experience to develop a car over a period of years as drivers are either replaced or promoted after a year or two, and they dont have management with a priority to develop the team and make them more competitive every year, as their purpose is simply to develop drivers for Red Bull and let Red Bull cars past if ever ahead of them.

It makes me impossible to have any sort of emotional investment in them, despite them being able lately to produce great chassis on their own and having an interesting lineup this year.

That said it is probably easier to become more independent from Ferrari if you're Haas than if you were Alfa. Considering that Alfa and Ferrari are all under the same unbrella, it might b easier for them to tie in with Ferrari and receive support so as to be instantly competitive, but harder to ever become independent or more than just Fiats secondary F1 team. Whatever happens, the more manufacturers, the merrier I suppose.
 

prisonermonkeys

Be Fearless
Premium
33,155
Peru
Hammerhead Garage
That said it is probably easier to become more independent from Ferrari if you're Haas than if you were Alfa. Considering that Alfa and Ferrari are all under the same unbrella, it might b easier for them to tie in with Ferrari and receive support so as to be instantly competitive, but harder to ever become independent or more than just Fiats secondary F1 team.
Ultimately, it's Fiat behind both teams. And if Fiat want Alfa Romeo to compete alongside Ferrari rather than play second fiddle, then that's exactly what Alfa Romeo will do. Ferrari won't have much cause for complaint. That's why this is different to the Red Bull-Toro Rosso set-up - someone else controls the purse strings.

Plus, if they're not going to buy into Sauber (and why would you, seeing as how you would inherit the debt?), then we get a twelfth team.
 
2,904
Jamaica
Kingston, Jamaica
pj-gm
PJwasHere876
That's assuming Sauber are still around by then. Sauber don't want to admit it, but they need a takeover at this point, else their days are numbered, and that number might even be smaller than the 18 races left. All the debt might be worth having an established outfit, factory, wind tunnel etc. already, but Alfa Romeo Sauber, (or Sauber Alfa Romeo, whatever floats your boat) doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

They might want all of the team and control or nothing. And I don't think Sauber want to do that even if it means avoiding liquidation.
 

prisonermonkeys

Be Fearless
Premium
33,155
Peru
Hammerhead Garage
Or is it:

3. ..they're skint.
Hardly. If they have no new parts and no young drivers, what would they get out of testing? All it's going to do is cost them money. I have heard that it costs around €2 million just to run a team at a Grand Prix, which is not the kind of money Sauber has to throw around.
 

TheCracker

Nothing to see here...
Premium
22,065
South Korea
North Korea
GTP_TheCracker
Hardly. If they have no new parts and no young drivers, what would they get out of testing? All it's going to do is cost them money. I have heard that it costs around €2 million just to run a team at a Grand Prix, which is not the kind of money Sauber has to throw around.

And why don't they have any new parts or any money to throw around - because they're skint.
 
22,532
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
DK
I don't know if this is the right thread to post this in, but Sauber won't be at the upcoming test at Barcelona. Their official explanation is that they:
  1. ...don't have any new parts to test.
  2. ...don't have any young drivers to take part in the test.

I believe it look how long it took last year for them to update the car. And when they finally did it was almost bspec status cause they couldn't update it at a steady rate so they slated parts in one go. This was before Singapore if I remember correctly.
 

prisonermonkeys

Be Fearless
Premium
33,155
Peru
Hammerhead Garage
So.....skint. There is no point arguing semantics, they're low on funds.
I don't know what your definition of "skint" is, but down here it tends to mean someone who avoids paying money if they don't have to, even when they can afford to - in other words, that Sauber could reasonably afford to take part in the test because doing so would not hurt their bottom line in the slightest, but they choose not to because they just don't want to spend the money.
 
21,338
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I don't know what your definition of "skint" is, but down here it tends to mean someone who avoids paying money if they don't have to, even when they can afford to - in other words, that Sauber could reasonably afford to take part in the test because doing so would not hurt their bottom line in the slightest, but they choose not to because they just don't want to spend the money.
Yeah in the UK it simply means having little or no cash. I guess we'd call what you describe a tightwad.