Still mad about the 4 door Charger? Here's your answer. (video added)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Carl.
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Nice pics! I think it looks great, especially in the last one. Much sexier than a Charger, a Magnum or even a 300C IMO. I agree about the interior though, the dashboard is horrible. The only things I like inside are the seats and that pistol shifter.

I'm eager to see what will be the pricing.
 
Hey, guys, make fun of the Charger until you stomp your right foot down on the far right pedal. My dad's got a Black one, and since he also has a Trailblazer and my Lexus died, I've been driving it. It's a great car.


I like the look of the Challenger. Seriously, what's not to love about the exhaust note of that HEMI?
 
In the words of Tim McGraw:
"I like it, I love it, I want some more of it..."

Damn, this car rocks. This is what they should have built from the get-go. I cant get over how much it looks like the origional Challenger!

If this is a signal as to an upcomming pony war all over again, I'm in. Between the '05 Mustang, the "semi-confirmed" new Camaro, and the new Challenger, this is going to be freaking sweet. I just hope Dodge decides to keep the costs down like Ford did, and the same goes to Chevy.

It will be extremely interesting if the Challenger and Camaro make it into production in time to duke it out with the SVT Shelby GT500 with each outfitted with the 6.1L 425HP Hemi and the 400HP LS2... Hell, why not play with the new 500+HP Hemi and the 505HP LS7?
 
Another one, better angle:
CHALMAG.jpg


Yummy.

And...
2008%20Challenger%20004.jpg
 
Hopefully GM will redesign the GTO so that it is better this this thing. 425 should be an easy mark to beat I would think.
 
Hopefully with the '07 GTO they actually decide to build The Judge, and Pontiac gets a special version of the LS2 just for the Goat. Not to say that 400HP isnt enough, but there has to be a "middle" engine to slot between the LS2 and LS7...
 
Given that I like the Retro trend in some intances, I think this is cool.

the idea of some chunky 60's looking pony cars with modern technology underneath makes me smile.

Give me the option for a regular 5.7 Hemi (with DOD), a Camaro with the 5.3 DOD as an option, and a Mustang with DOD (because damn, gas costs suck driving a Saturn as it is, and I had a nightmare that gas jumped to $2.77 last night) and it will be on.

I just wonder what the anti-retro people would want these cars to look like?

Did you really prefer the last generation Camaro's over the 1st gen?

Does the thought of seeing where "New Edge" Mustang styling would go really appeal?

Didn't Dodge make a travesty of a Challenger in the early 80's?

Retro > Random Looking Crap that doesn't do the badges justice.
 
I saw a new R/T , it was white with black R/T badges and black stripes on the side and hood. Then from a stoplight to 130 or so I wasted it the car was just plain slow. The car I beat it in was my 97' subaru legacy outback 2.5 with almost no mods. nothing against american cars but that thing sux
 
It sux huh?

...

Two questions, did they know you were racing?

If so, are you sure they were driving the car to even half it's potential?


Keep in mind, this "Dumbestic" you're bashing so illiterately is basically a Mercedes E-Class with an American engine.

Just saying.
 
Onikaze
It sux huh?

...

Two questions, did they know you were racing?

If so, are you sure they were driving the car to even half it's potential?


Keep in mind, this "Dumbestic" you're bashing so illiterately is basically a Mercedes E-Class with an American engine.

Just saying.
If you didnt notice I tried very hard go get the mesage across that I DON'T have a problem with "dumbestics" and yes he was trying theirs no denying that glorious hemi at full grunt
 
Onikaze
Did you really prefer the last generation Camaro's over the 1st gen?
1st gen > 3rd gen > 4th gen > 2nd gen (JMO)
Onikaze
Does the thought of seeing where "New Edge" Mustang styling would go really appeal?
Sure.
Onikaze
Didn't Dodge make a travesty of a Challenger in the early 80's?
No, Mitsubishi did :sly:
Onikaze
Retro > Random Looking Crap that doesn't do the badges justice.
Yeah, I just wish they'd been thinking like that when they made the Charger.
 
I can't wait to see this car in Sub-Lime, Panther Pink, Plum Crazy, or Top Banana (and yes, nit-pickers, I'm aware some of those are the Hi-Impact color range names for the Plymouth variants, not Dodge).

Honestly, while the Mustang leaves me cold and the Thunderbird was a waste, this looks good to my eye. If it comes in at a competitive pricepoint (which it almost certainly will, as Mustang's overnight success has forced manufacturers to refocus on entry-level coupes) then I fully believe it will be a successful car.

And what in the blue blazes is wrong with using parts bin engineering? Seriously, if the availble parts work perfectly well for the application, why engineer new parts? Parts bin engineering keeps costs down, keeps cars easy to maintain, and allows for superior quality control.

As a mechanic, I can guarantee you that GM using the same big FF sedan platform for the Park Avenue, Bonneville, Lumina, L88, and Century along with the same basic 3800series V6 kept parts costs VERY low for our customers and repairs very simple.
 
This clearly is a step in the right direction for any of the Big Three automakers. If you go back to the 1960s in the Pony Car hayday, they made a crapload of money for their respective manufactuers, and they further propelled competition between the makes for one of the greatest performance struggles in American automotive history.

I personally have no problem with parts-bin construction on these cars, as it cuts down on costs, and gets them to the public much faster than most other cars that have to be developed from scratch...

If we were to go back in time to 1964 for example, the Mustang was a parts bing car... Baisicly a reskinned Ford Falcon, the Mustang was obviously an instant success and started the whole Pony Car War... Fast forward to 1967, and the Chevrolet Camaro (and Pontiac Firebird) were also reskined cars, taking much of their parts from the Nova, and using engines from a wide variety of sister cars...

Nowadays, there really isnt a problem with it, IMO. The Mustang may share a similar platform with the Thunderbird and Linclon LS, and the new Challenger may share a baisic structure with Charger and 300C, but I am still somewhat confused as to where exactly the Camaro will be comming from? They allready said the Zeta wont work, and the rumors about the "Sigma Lite" platform have never been confirmed...

Looking at the Mustang GT at 300HP with possible DOD, the proposed Camaro with 325HP and DOD, and the Challenger in the neighborhood of 340HP with DOD, it would be a close race between the three depending greatly on the weight of the cars, and how agressive they decide to make the gearing in the Chevrolet and Mopar.

To answer some earlier questions:
1) I would consider the 4th Generation F-Bodies the only models that ever came close to the greatness that was the 1st Generation F-Body... Performance and looks were both great, and both were much better than their Ford and Mopar competition.

2) I really dont think modern interpretations of older cars would have worked. Its been a slow progression twards retro styling since the mid-1990s, espically on the Mustang. When you look at the late model cars, espically those built after 1999, you can really see them attempting to go back to their roots.

But being that the baby boomers now control the market, it is completely understandable that the market is drifting back to the looks that they grew up with, and the nameplates that they drove when they were younger. And even then, younger people have gained a greater interest in classic cars, so the trend may continue on for quite some time.

3) The '80s were a dark time for the Mopar performance monikers, and almost every great model was tarnished with a FWD variant that didnt deserve its namesake. There were Dusters, Challengers, Chargers, etc... Although the Shelby Charger was a decently fast car, it was a far cry from the origionals that were so great...

4) I completely agree that the retro look is the way to go. It brings back memories, and sells cars. I wouldnt want my Camaro looking like an RX7, would you?
 
Thanks to dieselstation.

Engine : 6.1 HEMI V8
Power : 425 BHP
0-60 : 4,5 s
Topspeed : approx. 170 mp/h (280 km/h)






 
What more is there to say?

Never been a huge fan of Mopars, but that is a pretty damn cool car there...and a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger fight should be awesome.
 
I find it funny that the folks at Top Gear are allready drooling all over the concept car...
 
Layzie
Thanks to dieselstation.

Engine : 6.1 HEMI V8
Power : 425 BHP
0-60 : 4,5 s
Topspeed : approx. 170 mp/h (280 km/h)

It's starting to grow on me a little each time I see it--and the interior is good--but come on...425bhp? Is that bloody it? They have a tenth of a liter on the LS2 and they could ONLY squeeze out an extra 25bhp? This is a joke, if they expect to compete with the new GTO when it comes out they need more help--GM seems to be better at getting a tad bit more out of thier V8s. What they need to do is work on gearing and the transmission to squeeze out a faster time along with tuning it up a bit. They are gonna need about 35-50bhp more I think before I'd consider it to compete--with that large of a car they are going to need more than 425bhp. You have sport sedans (not the M5) that are churning out 320-450bhp and they wouldn't be considered as muscle cars. I think it would be more of a hit if it was more around 500bhp--hell then it would be close to the ZO6 in power (but never in performance obviously). It's clear that this car is a drag stoplight to stoplight machine...I bet this car will handle like the original did--like a cruise ship. Thing is, I WANT this car to be released and succeed...they just need to work on a few things.

Biased opinion starts here -> The GTO will always own the Charger or Challenger.
 
JCE3000GT
It's starting to grow on me a little each time I see it--and the interior is good--but come on...425bhp? Is that bloody it? They have a tenth of a liter on the LS2 and they could ONLY squeeze out an extra 25bhp?.

You have sport sedans (not the M5) that are churning out 320-450bhp and they wouldn't be considered as muscle cars. I think it would be more of a hit if it was more around 500bhp--hell then it would be close to the ZO6 in power (but never in performance obviously).

So from the sound of it, Dodge is getting more HP per liter. How is that worse compared to the LS2?

They aren't muscle cars, because they are sport sedans.
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
So from the sound of it, Dodge is getting more HP per liter. How is that worse compared to the LS2?

The car is both heavier and larger than the GTO and Vette...so the extra 25bhp from 0.1 liter is pathetic. It's not about bhp per liter but bhp per lb. And unless they fiddle around with it enough to get it below 4 seconds from 0-60 I consider it a waste. I don't care if they have to throw on a small supercharger--they just need more power to get that cruise ship below 4 seconds.

They aren't muscle cars, because they are sport sedans.

No **** really? I mearly was putting into perspective the fact that 425bhp for today's muscle cars is weak. Think about it, you know it makes sense.
 
A lower sticker price might make a lot of sense, too. And there are rumors of a more powerful 6.4 version.
 
Lets look at the Likely, Possible, and Confirmed shape of the Pony/Muscle Car landscape in the next few years.

Mustang GT, 300 Hp, probable bump in power with freshening in a year or two, cheap as dirt.
Mustang GT350?, 350-400 Hp, trim some weight, make it more of a handler, stick a $30,000 base sticker on it, call me when it hits showrooms.
Mustang GT500, looks like the SVT team wants that 500 to stand for Hp, I can't think of any way to argue with a $40,000 500 Hp car that looks like that...can you?

Charger SRT8, 425 Hp, I love the looks myself, but I'm a cop car fan, and it's a decent price last I checked
Challenger, 425 Hp, looks great, but how close can they get it to Mustang GT Price? If it hits near GT500 money, then why bother?
Challenger SRT8, 500+ Hp?, again, it will look the part, but will it come in close enough to the GT500 price point to be viable?

Camaro Z28? 303 Hp (assuming they drop that lovely DOD V-8 in there) giving mileage benefits, and punch, price it at the Mustang and I want one.
Camaro SS360? 400+ Hp, LS2, priced close to $30k, I think it makes a case for itself.
Camaro SS427? 500+Hp?, Stick a LS7 in there, call it sold.

This is just what seems probable to me.
 
*has read every thread*
oooooooooooooooooookay....

what would you people RATHER have? glitz-fins, muscles, "wedges of cheeze" crackerboxes, ultimate Jellybeans or retro flashback? (50's thru 2k's design themes respectively)? there's no place left for automobile design to go that doesn't have SOMEONE going EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
this'll all end in 13 when OPEC repeats history, and oil goes to 200 bucks a barrell. enjoy looking now, cause we may be back on horses before Gen X hits retirement age (we know who we are). the debate is OVER. the charger was panned for being a 4 door fakeout, the challenger panned because the retro look is "tired". if you look at trends, the best designs come from the x5 to x7 years of a decade. the late decade cars are bugly, the EARLY decade cars are plain.

but...as for competing with the stang in the price range? *laughs ass off* no.
 
"if you look at trends, the best designs come from the x5 to x7 years of a decade. the late decade cars are bugly, the EARLY decade cars are plain."

I can't say that I agree with that, and there are a few big reasons why:

The muscle car era, for one, clearly reached it's peak, both in looks and performance, in '69-70. I mean, how many people would pick a '66-67 Charger over a '68-70? Or who on earth would pick a mid-'60s Barracuda over a '70 Cuda? Also, Mustangs reached there peak of design in the late '60s(most notably the '69-70 fastbacks). And don't forget that the Camaro and Challenger came out in this period as well.

Also, think about '90s Japanese performance cars: The 3rd-gen RX7, MK IV Supra, NSX, 300ZX and R32 Skyline all came out around 1990. And the R34 Skyline came out in '99. Of course, my favorite GT-R, in terms of looks anyways, the R33, came out in '95. But most people seem to agree that either the R32 or R34 are the best looking.

I'm not trying to bring you down here or anything, I just think your theory is a little off.

:cheers:
 
Dodge seems to be capping off it’s fleet with the SRT badge on everything from the Viper to the Caliber. Odds are the Challenger will be no different. This scares me, here’s why. All along the Challenger has been toted as the two door version of the new Charger. That leads me to believe it will probably be pretty much on par with it, i.e. SRT8. Now at current, in every single occurrence of the SRT8 badge gets the same 425 hp 6.1 liter hemi. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s a great engine. BUT, by the time this car comes out both the Camaro and Mustang are probably going to be making around 500 hp in the top of the line model. 425 just aint gonna cut it. There are several solutions to this, almost all of which have been covered already, but summaries never hurt so here we go.

OPTION 1: modify the engine
Ok so what if they step out of the mold for just this one car. You know what they say hemis’ love blowers. Weather they bump the displacement or bolt on a supercharger, it’s gotta make at least 500 hp. Very do-able but, dosn’t make much sense. I mean really, why would this one particular occurrence of the SRT8 badge be so much more powerful than all the others?

OPTION 2: upgrade the SRT8 engine across the whole line
Sounds great right? 500 hp challenger, 500 hp charger, 500 hp 300C, 500 hp Grand cherokee, 500 hp Viper SRT10... oh. Um, Detroit, we have a problem. Yeah, I really don’t think dodge wants their hemi V8 to go and overshadow their big boy, 8.3 liter "mother of all motors" by being just as powerful and considerably lighter. Big problem indeed.

OPTION 3: Dodge Challenger SRT10?
No way man. This things gotta have a V8. It’s a muscle car man. You’d lose half your prospective buyers. It’s.... like... it’s just gotta have a V8.

So what should Dodge do? H*** if I know. But the Challenger has to have 500 hp or it’s gonna flop in the modern musclecar market. However, twelve-year-old perspective in full force here, gimmie a 600 bhp Viper SRT10 and option 2, and Dodge oficialy becomes the coolest car company in the world.
 
Hidden option D.

Put the 6.1 in the Challenger R/T as the normal motor.

Put the new 500 some odd Hp 6.4 in the SRT-8.
 
Onikaze
Hidden option D.

Put the 6.1 in the Challenger R/T as the normal motor.

Put the new 500 some odd Hp 6.4 in the SRT-8.

like i said in option 1, why would this SRT8 get 500 hp when every other occurence of the SRT8 throughout not only dodge, but all of chrysler gets 425? it dosnt make sense, but if they do it i wont be complaining. Unless of course i'm the type of person who would prefer a charger. how would you feel if they gave the viper coupe 600 hp but left the convertible at 500, and you wanted a convertible. Then of course theres the problem where the hemi becomes a better engine than the 8.3 liter V10.

[NEW IDEA]However, with the 600 hp Corvett blue devil, Dodge is gonna need to work on the viper to stay competitive.[NEW IDEA]

i think i might have been onto something with my "600 hp Viper" lol thanks for making me think there Onikaze. 👍
 
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