Survey: single most effective modification to a car

I say itd not quite so simple maybe, it depends on the track. For tracks with long straights and few turns a turbo charger will proabally give the biggest gain. WIth short curby tracks a suspension. !
 
Tires, Tires, Tires....

nothing else will give you the performance bump that a good set of tires will...
 
As much as I want to say "tires", I have to disagree. Nitrous definitely helped me in some of those manufacturer races that I was just too impatient for, mainly because the cars were so freaking slow and no qualification made it nearly impossible for me to beat them. Examples: Suzuki Concept, Nissan March Brothers, Opel Speedster
They only work for short races though. If you're talking about a 10+ lap race though, I'd say tires, then weight reduction, then the chip.
 
GramNitrous
I'm sorry to here that,

i thought that 'Schumacher-itis' was only in F1, but now it's spread, that's a real shame.

PS Don't get me wrong i love Ferrari as much as the next guy, i just don't like M.Schumachers attitude.

Back on topic:

Other than the all important NOS, i think that the 'Fully Customisable Suspension' is the next most important car modification as it will help even the heaviest and most underpowered car handle somewhat better.


I here the new Ferrari will be unleashed next week...................should have taken her out the first race to see what she'll do (never know, that new engine might blow and then you're down to only one!! Then 'Schuddamacher' will have to drive more aggressive than usual to try and get on the points board with only one engine................one can only dream!!)!
 
I'd like to throw in the arguement of NA vs. Supercharger

i mean, 200 horsepower with smooth delivery for 17k versus 250 horsepower with peaky delivery for 75,000?

i mean, whats the advantage of the NA stage 3 (or stage 2) tune when you can pop on a supercharger?
 
Tires, just like in real life. You can get as much power as you want, but without being able to get it to the ground/handle corners then it is pointless.
 
Id say weight reduction. Its the first mod i do to a car assuming its not good as it is. I mean, the cars were all made to fill a purpose and in many cases (well, personal oppinion here anyways :) ) the cars seems to easily get less satisfactional if tuned, unless you happend to be good with settings (I sure as heck dont know all that much about it lol) though so maybe im not the one to say.. :p. I guess im a stock car junkie to some extent though.

/Eddie.
 
For the price, Nitrous, Computer Chip, and Weight Reduction (either of those)
 
dont forget what price bracket we are talking about here.

oil change being cheapest
and stuff like turbos being more expensive.

on preformance terms it is usually compared by 'bang for buck'
chassis mods tend to be recognized by how handling and grip are improved
 
exhorst
i think the fully customisable transmission because you can squeeze the maximum performance outta ya car with acceleration or top speed

stage 1 weight reduction aswell

I didn't read the entire thread. But I have to agree that the full-race transmission, along with the clutch and the race flywheel, are the most effective mods you can make.
Expecially, if you are driving an extremely "long-legged" or "short-legged" car.
You can increase the top speed of a short geared car. Or tighten things up to the point that you can use all 5 or 6 forward gears available.

I used the tranny to tighten up the ratios in my 119 HP Lotus Elan. I've limited my top speed to just over 100 MPH, but it will kick the snot out of any car that shows up for the Costa Amalfi special conditions race.
 
Eww, cheap: nitrous

Thumbs up: racing transmission

I usually have two versions of cars I love, one stock, one race modded. The modded cars are usually silver gray or black. And, uhm... yeah, I've been known to resort to nox to win a race as a desperation move.
 
Nitrous came in very handy for them rally races when my rpm's would drop low, and then a quick shot would get my rpm's up...it was also needed for a race against a celica where I nabbed him at the finish line
 
1. Tires!
2. Stage 1 turbo
3. Wieght reduct 1
4. Chip


All of these r under 5, 000cr. and in order of best to worst. But even when you are talking about more expensive upgrades tires will always be the best! Even though I always buy myself the racing suspension if it's a car i will use a lot, i honestly don't see a huge difference in handling. I usually notice better braking and acceleration a lot more. Tires are always someting I notice as far as handling is concerned. Far more noticeable then suspension.

And, yes, i'm drunk
 
This question has variables. It's hard to say exactly that one answer is the absolute best/right one. The better early on "bangs for your buck" are the oil change, computer chip, sports exhaust, stage 1 of weight loss, sports clutch, and sports flywheel. To me, what I attack first depends on what car I am modifying. Brakes are also important because when you get better "Go!" you need better "Whoa!" The cost of the brakes in GT4 however are right up there with tires and are more expensive than the "1000 credit specials"

If I have a stock 190E 2.5 16V or stock M3 to work with, I know the car can handle just fine out of the factory. I'm not going to meddle with that aspect of it just yet. Chances are, with a car that is known to handle more than the engine can throw at it, I'll either do something to add power or take away weight or change how the power gets transfered from the engine to the wheels (clutch/flywheel).

In the case of the M3: a 1500 credit chip, 1200 credits for a stage of weight reduction, and 1600 for stage 1 exhaust all outweigh the cost of 5100 credit hard sports tires; and the tires only get more expensive from there. If you want to go with 22500 credit racing medium tires, I challenge you to buy the 17000 full racing suspension and some other things with the remaining 5000 credits.

My approach changes however if I'm dealing with the LS6 equipped Chevelle, 1970 Dodge Charger 440 or a similar car where I know the engine has way more power than the stock suspension can handle. In that case I will skip engine treatment and go straight for tire and/or suspension tuning; Sports or Semi-racing suspensions even make a difference. I believe that being able to change spring rates, shock valving, camber and toe angles on stock tires has more of an effect on the car than leaving the suspension stock and adding more sticky tires. The massive torque that these cars put out is going to turn nearly any tire into a sweet smelling pile of rubber dust. Also, installing racing brakes on these cars is a huge help, but as mentioned atop, is one of the more expensive additions early in the tuning stages.

The problems with muscle cars "not wanting to corner" has less to do with the tires than it does with the suspension technology back in the day. True, if you changed either/or you'd have a better handling muscle car. I surmise though that changing all of the suspension settings brings down lap times more than just changing tires. If you can do both you'll have one sweet car. There is a reason the 1969 Z/28 Camaros won the Trans-Am series that year. Today you can make a real 1969 Camaro corner at 1G or better of lateral grip with not a whole lot of work; the secrets lie in the suspension tuning. Work with the tires the car came with and change suspension geometry. There are books and books written about suspension geometry; it's an exact science and isn't easy to understand.

Why did Carrol Shelby lower the Mustang's lower control arm 1 inch? It is because he found the car handled better in this manner. This small adjustment changed the tire's camber as it went through the camber curve. The stock first generation Mustang would actually get positive camber as the tire went through its camber curve; not a cool thing. With this adjustment, the tire would hold more to its true camber setting. The exact flipside, and what the Chevy guys do, is shorten the upper control arm. Two approaches, same result.

Shock tuning is also a very fine science. Maybe you have, maybe you haven't heard this, but when Audi released the R8 to privateer groups there were questions the privateers had for Audi regarding what could and could not be changed. After some drivers had their time at the wheel, some of the privateer teams asked Audi if they could change the shocks. Audi responded with a very firm, "No!" Their message that followed was this, "You may not change the shocks, change your driver, the shocks are perfect."

Yes, the tires are the only things connected to the road surface. What is connected to the tires though? Some of you just said "wheels!" Besides wheels...Hubs, spindles, and control arms. Going further we get to the shocks and springs. Some cars have the bottom of the shocks connected together with a sway bar. Some cars have the tops of their shocks connected with a tie-bar of some sort. My '83 Rabbit GTi has both of these features (aftermarket) and corners extremely well. My '69 Corvette on the other hand has a different setup. It starts out with a 49/51 weight bias. Not bad for a 1969 Chevy eh? Some other companies are trying to say they've got a "New front mid-mounted design." Corvette has incorporated a front mid-mounted setup since 1963! Yes, the split window Sting Ray in the game is when it started. A front mid-mount setup, for those who don't know, is where the engine is technically mounted such a way that the car could be considered a mid-engined car; none of the engine extends beyond the centerline of the axle, but the engine is still in front of the driver under a conventional hood.

All C3 Vettes use one transverse leaf spring in the back; up front are two coil springs. The C4-C6 use two transverse leaf springs- one front, one rear. That setup works very well for that particular car. It may not work at all for some other type of car, but the 1984 Corvette held 1.00 G of lateral grip stock off the showroom floor. Owners complained and for 1985 the suspension got softer. C5 ZO6s have the same dual leaf spring setup and they're at or over 1.00 lateral G's as well.

Sorry, it's a lot to read but hopefully is worth the time I put into it and the information you get out of it.
 
PaulSwid
1. Tires!
2. Stage 1 turbo
3. Wieght reduct 1
4. Chip


All of these r under 5, 000cr. and in order of best to worst. But even when you are talking about more expensive upgrades tires will always be the best! Even though I always buy myself the racing suspension if it's a car i will use a lot, i honestly don't see a huge difference in handling. I usually notice better braking and acceleration a lot more. Tires are always someting I notice as far as handling is concerned. Far more noticeable then suspension.

And, yes, i'm drunk

nice one. never thought of that price range
 
well there is no answer to this question it is seen i many ways if u want lots of speed and dont want to spend lots of money get a chip if you have the money get a turbo stage 3 or 4 depends on the car that you have if you want better handling for cheap money buy some new tires but if you just want a bit horse power for low cash get an oil change. everything that increases your hp more than 10 % is good to get. in terms of handling you cant really mesure how much you gained or lost. so this question is a silly quetion cause everbody has a own answer and thinks of differnt terms when you here the question so there is o real answer to it its like asking whats your favorite color many people have many differnt answers
 
looking around i think its quite simple now..
its your driving style that determines what type of mod you buy for your car.

in real life the first and most important is airflow...exhaust flow and mufflers.
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but I'd say it depends on which car you want to upgrade. An underpowered lightweight car's performance will increase a lot from a turbo upgrade, while an heavyweight like a Vanquish will benefit the most from weight reduction or racing tires. It can vary a lot depending on the type of track you're racing too, adding a wing works very well with high speed corners.

In the bang-for-your-buck department, oil change is indeed unbeatable, followed by weight reduction stage 1.
 
There's only one way to settle this...

Buy a stock car ( I suggest MX5, RX7, GTR Skyline or Evo )

Do two laps of a circuit ( Something simple like midfield ) stock, and take the best lap time.

Put on a mod, do two laps of circuit, take best time.

Then you can see the price of the modification and how much time it took off.

Eg Stock time 01.05.47

Time with racing suspension 00.59.32

For 17K Credits time was reduced by xx.xx seconds. ( Im not gonna do the math )

then take off the racing suspension, put in a racing chip, and go and do it all again.

Okay, so it won't be perfect, and maybe 2 laps isn't enough ( I'm assuming whoever does it has better things to do )

But surely it will give a fair idea ?

Out.
 
Here's some handling advice, and guess what? It doesn't cost all that much. The only thing it costs is your time, 5 credits, and 1 day in GT4 (more of each if you must leave and come back). Pick any track of your choice. I use Sears Point *cough* I mean, Infineon :yuck: because I am intimately familiar with it. I've gone to all ALMS events there since 2002; photographing most of them, and I have tracked my Rabbit GTi on the sports car course with N.A.S.A. last August. That's N.A.S.A. the competitor to the S.C.C.A., not N.A.S.A. the space administration. The point is, pick a track you are very familiar with so the track is not a variable.

Here is my advice- use the traction management computer (Driving Aids) and shift weight where you want it (Weight Balance). These come with the car and are free. Heck, Sony & P.D. have made it easy for you because I sure as heck didn't know that cars pre-1985 came with traction control; at least my '83 Rabbit and '69 Corvette didn't. Maybe the prior owners missed those option boxes? ;) Oh well, they are included with the game, use them to your advantage.

With traction control alone I can make a FR car handle any way I like. P.D. & Sony have made it even easier with the ASM system in GT4; it's broken up into "Oversteer" and "Understeer" settings. A driver can now completely dial in or dial out the computer's intervention for either case. In past versions of Gran Turismo, ASM was one very rude system. We even started calling it the Anti-Steering Mechanism and shut it off. In the past the system kicked on when we didn't want it to and the driver had no way of fine tuning; finally we've gotten that fine tuning. Be thankful.

Think of the three 'new' settings in this regard. TCS is for straightline traction. For example: TCS calms the massive engine torque from turning both 335mm wide tires on the back of a Viper GTS into a smoking pile of rubber dust. For a car like the Autobianchi or some other underpowered kushman cart, set this to the range of 0-2; higher if you have massive power levels.

Both ASM settings kick in when the car is in the action of cornering whether or not the car is settled, braking, or accelerating. If a car is completely settled and in a corner, ASM is not actively doing anything. If and when the nose starts to plow or the tail becomes overly anxious and tries to pass the front however, ASM will take appropriate action and either add power or will actuate the necessary calipers to calm the misbehaving wheel(s). These settings fight what are listed. Ex. ASM (Oversteer) will fight oversteer and will induce understeer. ASM (Understeer) does just the opposite; it induces oversteer.

I find AWD cars to be exceptionally $hitty pavement racers because the front tires are best when they turn and only turn. The rear tires are supposed provide the go power. Whenever a tire is asked to do more than one job, it really screws with the balance between forward movement and steering. FWD is the worst example as the front tires are the lone workers, the rears do nothing but follow. That said however, I would take FWD over AWD because at least it's possible to use tie-bars, swaybars, corner weighting and other suspension tuning tricks to dial out understeer. AWD cars? The answer for me is simple- disconnect the front drive axles and turn that thing into a RWD vehicle. Can't do that in GT4; not until MK comes out with a new garage editor.

Weight Balance. Ah yes, the blasphemous action of adding weight back into a car we've just proudly gutted. Speed World Challenge, amongst other sanctioning bodies, use what they call "Rewards Weight." This is weight added into a winning car as an attempt to make the playing field level. I applaud GT4 for incorporating this feature. Online racing leagues may now also incorporate "Rewards Weight" into their rule books. Something we can do, that competitors cannot however, is place this weight anywhere we want (within 2 dimensions and digital reason). Sanctioning bodies limit the placement because a competitor can use the added weight to corner weight a vehicle better and make the car more competitive even though the chassis is now heavier.

With adding weight, there are at least two thoughts that are both equal. A lot of weight just barely past centerline can equal a little bit of weight toward the very end. Think of a fat person and a baby on opposite ends of a teeter-totter. If they're both at the very end, the side with the large person drops. As the bigger person slides closer to the fulcrum point (center), the sides start to level off.

Stock for stock, why does a 1969 Corvette outhandle a 1969 Mustang? The 1969 Corvette has a weight bias of 49%F / 51%R. The Mustang is closer to a bias of 60%F / 40%R. Now a modified Mustang can do just as well as a stock Corvette, but the initial platform isn't as good. The front mid-mounted engine of the Corvette helps a lot. The back portion of the engine, the bellhousing and transmission in the 1969 Corvette are very close to being at the exact center of the car. The engine even sits slightly to the passenger side of the car to offset the driver's weight; it sure makes corner weighting a lot easier in that car.

Where am I going with this? Why don't you drive an '86 RUF BTR around Sears Point and find out the best lap time you can achieve? The BTR is an example of a RR platform car. That is, the engine is not only in the back of the car, it sits past the centerline of the rear axle. In driving around a corner, I feel the rear end acting like a pendulum. The rear wants to guide me where to go- Ah ah ah! Remember what I said before about the front steering and the rear providing the forward thrust? I want the front tires to direct me, not the rear. To counter this, I tweaked the suspension, I tweaked the tires, I tweaked both ASM and TCS. The car has a nasty habit of understeer into snap-oversteer. The chassis is so unbalanced it was making me think of shelving the car forever.

How did I finally dial this problem away? I put 27 kilos (59.5 pounds) into the nose (-45 for the game setting) of the car. That's where I started anyway. There is still room for fine tuning. I figured that roughly 60 pounds in the extreme front of the chassis would help to offset the weight of the engine in the back. I was right and my lap times started coming down drastically. I set the car back to stock suspension settings and found that with the weight balance setting alone, I subtracted 4 seconds off my previously best time. I also found that the RUF BTR does very well with a ride height of 100mm front and rear and the springs bumped another 10% in stiffness but that's all. Any lower ride height or any more stiffness in the springs and the car's body bounces too much. In retrospect it was probably riding on the bump stops so the shocks were not doing their prescribed job.

To summarize this. Take what the stock car gives you and work with it. You may find that just tuning the platform to be closer to 50%F / 50%R weight bias will help immensely in the cornering department.
 
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