Suspension Glitch

  • Thread starter MARsSPEED1
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20
United States
Frederick, MD
MARsSPEED1
MARsSPEED
I'm realized that even though it's a glitch in suspension tuning, others could argue for it. I don't want to get into arguments that are common sense in the real world because the real world tuning features in GT7 are already unrealistic...I miss Forza.

PPShould be affected by part, weight, tyre type and HP only. Like Forza, you can tune suspension, including Aero, and it does affect PP. This is where GT7 has screwed up. It should be up to the user to figure it out, not reconfigured via every adjustment. Perhaps a locked PP like Engine parts, and tires.
 
20
United States
Frederick, MD
MARsSPEED1
MARsSPEED
In other words, you shouldn't be able to raise your front suspension to Max Height in order to gain 100PP...to stay at a certain PP.
 
20
United States
Frederick, MD
MARsSPEED1
MARsSPEED
And then to make it worse, add max ballast to front to stabilize the car, which then allows you to add more HP and get the handling of another car with 100 PP more.

This is completely valid though. I was watching @Lux Klonoa 's replay and was wondering why the cars all had their front up in the sky.
Well, peeps have caught on and I see it in every public room. The only way to rid myself of it is to start a room myself and kick the glitchers.
 
259
United States
Federal Way, WA, USA
I'm going to offer the same suggestion I always do: Tuning suspension, gears, aero and differential shouldn't count towards PP at all. All PP calculations should be taken with those values at the default, based on whatever parts you have on. The goal of car setup should be to make the car faster, not to fit within these ridiculous loopholes.
 
735
Finland
Finland
It literally stands for performance points. If you adjust something which objectively improves the cars performance, it earns more performance points.
The problem with the PP system is it's not consistent. Naturally, even a car with signifcantly less PP can smoke something on a drag strip but fail miserably on a circuit.

Raising the suspension on front doesn't do anything good cornering-wise though.
 
135
Poland
Poland
PP system is garbage. Nothing new. Polyphony should listen to @praiano63 when it comes to what should count into PP and what not. They did correct thing with transmission not counting towards PP. Next thing should be height of the suspension. I hate it that all good/powerful tunes have high suspension and it looks silly.
 
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735
Finland
Finland
PP system is garbage. Nothing new.
Before they nerfed the gear exploit (which all the cool kids used to do the Tomahawk grind), I did the same unknowingly, and noticed it considerably helped the PP efficiency. I basically made the last gear ridiculously long, and was able to win the tuner Tsukuba race with a Jaguar E-Type.
 
20
United States
Frederick, MD
MARsSPEED1
MARsSPEED


Thanks @TumeK5 I found the video. Video is from last week's Daily. The vehicles in the first four places are great examples, with the Lancia being the best.

Front ride height is set at max height and rear to max low which brings the PP Index waaaayyyyyy down. Ballast is set to full and placed at best spot to stabilize vehicle. CPU/Power Restricter can then be put back back up for up to +100HP versus if you just set your suspension to the norm Low ride height with a minimal +/- difference.

Does this help anyone see how this is a cheat (and looks like crap)?
 
743
United States
Portland, OR
Live25
All of these things should impact PP, the problem is the way its implemented on a static slope instead of something more resembling a bell curve.
 
295
Germany
Germany
All of these things should impact PP, the problem is the way its implemented on a static slope instead of something more resembling a bell curve.
Agree.
If raising the front decreases PP, that is correct, but then adding ballast to make it handle better would with right calculations just give back the same PP you lost before, no gain no loss, but actually loss loss because bad aero and more weight.

Transmission bug has to be fixed, not made irrelevant, because even gear ratios have value on pp and as long as one didnt get into abusive setups were much closer together.
 
THere is a guy here on GTP who does tuning and he usually rises the car almost to the max to gain PP. Yes, it's faster, but no, it's not realistic. I don't use his tunes because of that 'glitch'.
 
135
Poland
Poland
THere is a guy here on GTP who does tuning and he usually rises the car almost to the max to gain PP. Yes, it's faster, but no, it's not realistic. I don't use his tunes because of that 'glitch'.
It isn't a glitch tho. You don't have to do anything more than set height of suspension. It looks silly and I also don't like it but I wouldn't call it a glitch or a cheat but Polyphony probably won't change it because it doesn't affect the economy of the game like Tomahawk X transmission tune.
 
743
United States
Portland, OR
Live25
THere is a guy here on GTP who does tuning and he usually rises the car almost to the max to gain PP. Yes, it's faster, but no, it's not realistic. I don't use his tunes because of that 'glitch'.
If you don't like it, simply drop the ride height and adjust the PP in other ways. "I'm not going to use this awesome tune because I don't like the way it looks...even though I could make some simple adjustments and get the best of both worlds."

Sorry, that just screams lazy and ignorant to me.
 
If you don't like it, simply drop the ride height and adjust the PP in other ways. "I'm not going to use this awesome tune because I don't like the way it looks...even though I could make some simple adjustments and get the best of both worlds."

Sorry, that just screams lazy and ignorant to me.
My tuning skills are very limited, but I always try myself first. If stuck, I go to GTP and look for other people's tunes, ignoring that one guy who always takes advantage of the suspension glitch. Yes, I call it a glitch, because noone in real life would set a racing car up like a 4x4. Not only would it not improve performance, it would actually hinder it.

I usually check out other tunes on GTP. There are others, equally skilled, who don't take advantage of the glitch.

I do understand why this guy's tunes are popular. The glitch can add plenty of room for more power. You just set the suspension all the way up to the max and can add something like additional 100BHP and still fit within the 600 or 700pp limit. For me this is a glitch or a cheat. Everyone is welcome to play their game as they want though and I don't judge. I'm only saying, I don't use it and consider it a glitch myself. I would love if PD patch that in the next patch. It is suppose to be a realistic game and there is nothing realistic about having cars look like 4x4s.
 
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743
United States
Portland, OR
Live25
My tuning skills are very limited, but I always try myself first. If stuck, I go to GTP and look for other people's tunes, ignoring that one guy who always takes advantage of the suspension glitch. Yes, I call it a glitch, because noone in real life would set a racing car up like a 4x4. Not only would it not improve performance, it would actually hinder it.

I usually check out other tunes on GTP. There are others, equally skilled, who don't take advantage of the glitch.

I do understand why this guy's tunes are popular. The glitch can add plenty of room for more power. You just set the suspension all the way up to the max and can add something like additional 100BHP and still fit within the 600 or 700pp limit. For me this is a glitch or a cheat. Everyone is welcome to play their game as they want though and I don't judge. I'm only saying, I don't use it and consider it a glitch myself. I would love if PD patch that in the next patch. It is suppose to be a realistic game and there is nothing realistic about having cars look like 4x4s.
So because you don’t like the ride height, you refuse to use any of his other settings? Pardon me, but that seems a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You don’t have to be even a marginal tuner to understand that if he is squeezing more PP by raising the ride height that you just lower the ride height and restrict the power and get exactly what you need.
 
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135
Poland
Poland
My tuning skills are very limited, but I always try myself first. If stuck, I go to GTP and look for other people's tunes, ignoring that one guy who always takes advantage of the suspension glitch. Yes, I call it a glitch, because noone in real life would set a racing car up like a 4x4. Not only would it not improve performance, it would actually hinder it.

I usually check out other tunes on GTP. There are others, equally skilled, who don't take advantage of the glitch.

I do understand why this guy's tunes are popular. The glitch can add plenty of room for more power. You just set the suspension all the way up to the max and can add something like additional 100BHP and still fit within the 600 or 700pp limit. For me this is a glitch or a cheat. Everyone is welcome to play their game as they want though and I don't judge. I'm only saying, I don't use it and consider it a glitch myself. I would love if PD patch that in the next patch. It is suppose to be a realistic game and there is nothing realistic about having cars look like 4x4s.
Well then Gran Turismo 7 is unrealistic if Polyphony Digital enables it.
 
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So because you don’t like the ride height, you refuse to use any of his other settings? Pardon me, but that seems a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You don’t have to be even a marginal tuner to understand that if he is squeezing more PP by raising the ride height that you just lower the ride height and restrict the power and get exactly what you need.
Well, I'm old and stubborn. If someone uses glitches to gain popularity then I will go elsewhere. It's not like there aren't any others who do a good job too. IMO the guy gets too much credit here anyway. I like others and I think they don't get enough credit. Am I allowed to like other tuners more? Or should I hang my head in shame?
Well then Gran Turismo 7 is unrealistic if Polyphony Digital enables it.
It isn't realistic if they allow stuff like that. Running race cars like 4x4 only to gain extra PP and cheat in AI races. I have won every race so far without using the glitch with no aids on and on hard or normal and I am nowhere near as good as some are here, so it is possible. People are just lazy and look for cheap solutions. I rather make the game harder and enjoy it for longer rather than gold everything in any way possible as quickly as possible and have nothing to do.
 
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135
Poland
Poland
I rather make the game harder and enjoy it for longer rather than gold everything in any way possible as quickly as possible and have nothing to do.
There are other games to play and Gran Turismo 7 single player is boring because of bad AI(I would go further and say that it isn't AI but some simple scripts eg. Tokyo 600PP) so I don't see a point in gimping myself to make it a challenge. I win and forget about the event if it has low payout. So I forgot about 99% of content (101 events) in this game and only 1% is worth of replaying (4 events) for credits. Much fun.

Tho I must admit - it is quite impressive that Polyphony Digital managed to make 31 circuits (101 events) useless after completing them.

Similar case with Sport Mode 🤣 60-100k credits depends on the race for THE WINNER of 18 minutes race where it is a lot more difficult to win than single player. That is some massive incentive to hop on online mode to join massive 5% of the playerbase (or even less).

Also if I remember correctly then in previous patch there was added event for GR1 VGT cars and guess what - they set path of #1 AI to cut entry and exit of the chicane to make it more difficult 🤣(but AI can't get penalty). Here is your realism.
 
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23,757
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
It literally stands for performance points. If you adjust something which objectively improves the cars performance, it earns more performance points.
Except the whole point is that a high front end and low rear end is the exact opposite of how you objectively improve car performance in real life.

The problem here is the physics system, not the PP per se. These cars should handle very badly, but they don't in GT world. PP going down is correct, really. The performance not actually going down as it should is the issue.
 
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743
United States
Portland, OR
Live25
Well, I'm old and stubborn. If someone uses glitches to gain popularity then I will go elsewhere. It's not like there aren't any others who do a good job too. IMO the guy gets too much credit here anyway. I like others and I think they don't get enough credit. Am I allowed to like other tuners more? Or should I hang my head in shame?

It isn't realistic if they allow stuff like that. Running race cars like 4x4 only to gain extra PP and cheat in AI races. I have won every race so far without using the glitch with no aids on and on hard or normal and I am nowhere near as good as some are here, so it is possible. People are just lazy and look for cheap solutions. I rather make the game harder and enjoy it for longer rather than gold everything in any way possible as quickly as possible and have nothing to do.
Your argument is you don't think the ride height is realistic (I agree), but that you're unwilling to simply adjust the restrictor down is indeed stubborn. I use his tunes all the time, I don't like the ride height either, so I dial it down to something more appropriate and adjust the restrictor as needed. I don't typically like the downforce values either, so those also get changed. But that's true of nearly every tune I have gleaned from any tuner here. Ride height and/or rake, downforce applied and the usage of ECU vs. Restrictor (I swear there's some secret code that I simply am not aware of that mandates ECU reduction first and foremost). But when it comes to more specific suspension, LSD or gearing, I'm at the mercy of what tunes are available.

If you want to critique a guy for putting a lot of free work in for the community, that's fine I guess. But to vilify him for others placing him on a pedestal, whether deserved or not, is no fault of his own.

It sounds like your real problem is with PD's methodology for calculating PP, which if you would bother to read anything he says, you would know that he is probably the single, biggest advocate for change in that regard.
 
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207
United States
United States
Carolina squat has been made illegal in several states, will The Real Driving Simulator follow real world precedent?
 
Your argument is you don't think the ride height is realistic (I agree), but that you're unwilling to simply adjust the restrictor down is indeed stubborn. I use his tunes all the time, I don't like the ride height either, so I dial it down to something more appropriate and adjust the restrictor as needed. I don't typically like the downforce values either, so those also get changed. But that's true of nearly every tune I have gleaned from any tuner here. Ride height and/or rake, downforce applied and the usage of ECU vs. Restrictor (I swear there's some secret code that I simply am not aware of that mandates ECU reduction first and foremost). But when it comes to more specific suspension, LSD or gearing, I'm at the mercy of what tunes are available.

If you want to critique a guy for putting a lot of free work in for the community, that's fine I guess. But to vilify him for others placing him on a pedestal, whether deserved or not, is no fault of his own.

It sounds like your real problem is with PD's methodology for calculating PP, which if you would bother to read anything he says, you would know that he is probably the single, biggest advocate for change in that regard.
I'm not trying to vilify or critique anyone here. I am simply stating that I don't use his tunes and use others instead. I'm not sure why I need to keep defending that statement. Surely, I am allowed to use any free tunes posted here on GTP?

And yes, I too take someone else's tunes and modify them for my needs. I can pretty much do most myself, but when it comes to suspension settings, it's like black magic to me. So when someone takes ride height up to the max and base all the other suspension settings on that fact, if I was to change the ride height, the rest of the suspension settings would make no sense. That's why I go elsewhere, to tuners that don't use the glitch and keep ride height at normal levels, because the rest of the suspension settings will be correct then.

As I said before, I consider it a glitch, because it has no base in reality and yes, PD should patch as soon as possible IMO.
 
229
United States
United States
mori_lucrum_
saw that Race A (allegedly) will be 500pp RH tuning next week, thought I’d fiddle around to see what is quickest… hopefully they eliminate the suspension or else it’ll be another waste of a race slot. It’s not even worth testing cars at the flat 500pp knowing that any marginal choice can just be squatted down to fit… and any “how a normal car works” tune is half the HP. Cool stuff