Suspension Glitch

  • Thread starter MARsSPEED1
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I understand what you are saying.
But here's the thing. Formula 1 and Aussie Super Cars that Triple 8 compete in have countless rules.
Some arbitrary video game PP calculation isn't one of them.

And if what you are advocating occurred within GT7, people would be here on this forum complaining about META cars.

The system in the game is what it is.
It's not perfect. It has loopholes.
But 'performance points' relate to performance of the car.
Suspension settings alter the performance of the car, for better or for worse.

I could give you a suspension setting that your lap time would basically equate to using a lower grade of tyre.
And yet you feel suspension settings shouldn't be part of the PP calculation?

There is little more I can say.
Just highlights how flawed the PP system is generally. There is a reason no real world series use anything comparative. Rules and regulations on the car itself and the physical parts within it are all that should be needed. Tuning is tuning. It's still the same car.

If meta cars appear, change the regulations or if really needed, ban cars/specific functions of cars. That's what real world series do. Besides, meta cars are constantly a problem with PP anyway, people ARE constantly complaining about them. Because PP will never work in the way it is set up now. "performance" can't be determined in such a robotic manner when we're talking about setup. You shouldn't adjust suspension in a certain way and gain PP, just because the game decides that should be better performing, or vice versa. As this glitch is proving. The PP is going down in-line with how it THINKS the performance is dropping, but in reality it's not as bad.

Limit an event to cars of a certain width, height, weight, power, engine displacement, drivetrains, and so on, like the real world. Change the limits if need be to counter certain META cars. But using all these tight regs in the first place stops a lot of the GT World META cars.
 
Take the Racing Suspension off then, simple ;).

You'd have to be pretty foolish to do that when the main reason you'd put it on is to work outside the range of the settings the stock suspension has to offer.
No. You equip Racing suspension because you can change individual settings of that suspension so that your car "performs" better.
If you don't, you are limited to the performance the settings the stock suspension allows, whether you like it or not.

@Samus
"The problem here is the physics system, not the PP per se."

"Just highlights how flawed the PP system is generally."

:banghead:
 
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Take the Racing Suspension off then, simple ;).

You'd have to be pretty foolish to do that when the main reason you'd put it on is to work outside the range of the settings the stock suspension has to offer.
You would also never actually get a fully adjustable race suspension setup to behave exactly like the original, no matter how hard you tried. Shorter springs, better shocks, etc. The overall geometry would never match.
 
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Have had people join our room, match our PP but it seems like they’ve got quite the advantage. They play dumb like everything is the same but they kept repeating “weight is power” so we just had enough and booted them. Sometimes when people are like that I’ll sacrifice my credit earnings and kick them right before they finish the race hahahaha. Just play the game and quit looking for exploit, geezus
 
You would also never actually get a fully adjustable race suspension setup to behave exactly like the original, no matter how hard you tried. Shorter springs, better shocks, etc. The overall geometry would never match.
How would you define 'performance'?
Is it lap time, tyre deg., maybe a combination of the two?

If racing suspension would 'never behave exactly like the original' I can only assume that it could be better or it could be worse.

But, of course, this in no way determines the performance of the suspension and therefore the car.
Right?

I'm honestly dumbfounded by this mindset.
And I'm going to have to leave it at that.
 
No. You equip Racing suspension because you can change individual settings of that suspension so that your car "performs" better.
If you don't, you are limited to the performance the settings the stock suspension allows, whether you like it or not.
And that's why IMO you should take a PP hit, because, as I said, the main reason you'd put it on is to work outside the range of the settings the stock suspension has to offer.

Put simply, a car with racing suspension is no longer a stock car and as such shouldn't be treated as one. Changing the pp for every little click on that racing suspension isn't going work though, just like it didn't for transmissions.
 
No. You equip Racing suspension because you can change individual settings of that suspension so that your car "performs" better.
If you don't, you are limited to the performance the settings the stock suspension allows, whether you like it or not.

@Samus
"The problem here is the physics system, not the PP per se."

"Just highlights how flawed the PP system is generally."

:banghead:
Both are true. You're combining two different discussions.
How would you define 'performance'?
Is it lap time, tyre deg., maybe a combination of the two?

If racing suspension would 'never behave exactly like the original' I can only assume that it could be better or it could be worse.

But, of course, this in no way determines the performance of the suspension and therefore the car.
Right?

I'm honestly dumbfounded by this mindset.
And I'm going to have to leave it at that.
You've lost me again. If you fit the racing suspension, your PP should go up because you're physically improving the car. It shouldn't go up again if you tweak the settings of it. It's still the same car. Yes, literally speaking every tweak of your suspension setting is changing car "performance" but in reality they're not changes you can objectively quantify as a number, which again, is why PP is never going to work at this fine level.

If you tweak a car suspension setup and it goes from 500 PP to 510 PP that is the game saying "Objectively, this car is now 10 PP better" but if the setup doesn't work for the individual driver style, or the track, it's not.
 
So let's add Racing Suspension but it has the same settings as Stock suspension.
All good. Here, take a PP hit even though your suspension is exactly the same.

Seems fair and reasonable.
Out of interest I just tried this with, let's just say some interesting results.

Stock suspension, in fact factory new everything, nothing changed in the slightest. 484.22pp baseline.

2.png


Now with Racing Suspension and the same settings as stock suspension. 481.77pp WTF, LESS PP :odd::boggled:
1.png


Now with an unmodified Racing Suspension. 495.95pp Now that's more in line with where I feel it should be.
3.png
 
Out of interest I just tried this with, let's just say some interesting results.

Stock suspension, in fact factory new everything, nothing changed in the slightest. 484.22pp baseline.

View attachment 1168969

Now with Racing Suspension and the same settings as stock suspension. 481.77pp WTF, LESS PP :odd::boggled:
View attachment 1168964

Now with an unmodified Racing Suspension. 495.95pp Now that's more in line with where I feel it should be.
View attachment 1168970
How about with raked suspension?
 
Is anyone here familiar with Forza? In forza, you add racing suspension and your PP is then increased. Tuning the suspension afterwards has no impact on PP there after. Same with roll bars, etc.

In my opinion, the adjustable LSD has much more affect on handling than any other aspect. Maybe the roll bars as well. Not so much the the ride height.

Here is my question to @Tassie_tiger

Do you think it is fair to add racing suspension, jack the height, place ballast where needed to make up for handling, and then have 80 or more PP points to add however much horsepower? All while then driving your car that now looks like it is riding on hydraulics.

My guess is you are exploiting this yourself and riding on gold wire rims while driving around Tsukuba.

Mark my words, the first daily TT in Daily’s will be full of these setups as well as daily races.
 
Agreed.
Why people think that tyre selection or suspension settings shouldn't apply to 'performance points' of a race car is beyond me.
Because this is pretty much how Turn 10 did it in Forza Motorsport, and it worked much better. Changing the suspension settings didn’t affect your Performance Index, only the build did.

It’s extremely cheesy how you can just apply the worst settings possible to add more power and have less weight.
 
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Wow, just wow.

From an outsider's perspective, it appears y'all are of similar mindsets, just with different phrasing for what it's worth.
 
They are floaty and drive like ****, but the HP and Weight advantage offsets whatever setup disadvantage they have. If PD want to turn people off from tuning, this is the way to do it.
 
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Awesome! How about with full Ballast placed to front on top of raked?
436.69pp. It leaves an awful lot of head room for horsepower improvements.
5.png

Wow, just wow.

From an outsider's perspective, it appears y'all are of similar mindsets, just with different phrasing for what it's worth.
All but one ;)

@Veinz That's how it worked in previous GT games as well.
 
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I can appreciate the lofty goal of a parity system that accounts for every single parameter of an individual car's base physics, combined with various tuning parts and tuning setup of each of those parts, but the end product clearly doesn't achieve the intended outcome.

Philosophical debates about which parameters should or shouldn't be included in a PP or parity figure are probably a separate topic. But I agree the current system is a victim of it's own complexity and a simpler method of calculating performance would've better served players with a less frustrating, more consistent (and less silly looking) game.
 
MGR
the current system is a victim of it's own complexity
There are 2 different problems the current system has:
1. generally glitched setupts like transmission was before, and suspension still is
2. PP acting weird on very small changes with huge impact on PP and sometimes even swing big between better and worse on just 2 following steps.

The way you put it makes PD seemingly incompetent in designing a PP framework to calculate better or worse setups.
Wouldnt it be funny to see which setupts Sophy would come up wit given access to all cars and parts in terms of creating the best car (maybe for Nur24).
 
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There are 2 different problems the current system has:
1. generally glitched setupts like transmission was before, and suspension still is
2. PP acting weird on very small changes with huge impact on PP and sometimes even swing big between better and worse on just 2 following steps.

The way you put it makes PD seemingly incompetent in designing a PP framework to calculate better or worse setups.
Wouldnt it be funny to see which setupts Sophy would come up wit given access to all cars and parts in terms of creating the best car (maybe for Nur24).
Haaaa Sophy ... i was in instant "coup de foudre" love with you when i saw you , so beautifull. Like the girl of Ipanema when she walk down the street .... You only let a smell of fake aditived gasoline in the air .... and ... fade away in the air. 😍

Back to PP and ride height in GT7 .
IMO , the variation of PP , lowering PP when increase ride height is gradual and correct. The problem is the %.For a given normal grippy track config and for a given fix PP, if you raise the RH of the car , your lost of grip and/or gain of power is not correct. Performances are favored by the increased RH The coefficient have to be reviewed.

In term of physics , the RH effect on grip is inverted , more sensible for most of the road cars with NO ground effect (flat bottom / rear diffusor). The fact of lowering the ride height is increasing the unstability , the car lost stability passing over his grip easily , but the higher RH increase this same stability... Just my opinion after a lot of test confirming this statements.
 
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