SUV's are obsolete

  • Thread starter Thread starter Poverty
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A diesel truck is a lot better then a gas truck. Better mileage, more power, and a ton more torque. There is no way I'd ever buy a gas truck now a days.
 
Well, for trucks, yes, diesel is the way to go. Fuel economy, torque.

But on normal passenger cars, why bother buying diesel?
 
Uhh, the same reasons, possibly? There is simply no other powerplant that is as efficient and cheap as diesel engines, and diesel fuel is quite technically cheaper.
 
But during the winter you pay more, at least here, because its often used by those freights and trucks that gobbles huge amount of diesel, so demand is always high. In winter, you pay more for diesel than gas. In summer, you still pay around the same, maybe 3 cents cheaper than gas.
 
Uh a 50mpg Jetta apposed to a 24mpg Jetta...I know which one I'd want.
 
Performance = gas

Fuel efficiency = diesel

But diesel engines with both performance and fuel efficiency in one package = $$$$.
 
Well if you put the Bully Dog system on a truck with a diesel engine and you got one serious performance vehicle.
 
BlazinXtreme
Well if you put the Bully Dog system on a truck with a diesel engine and you got one serious performance vehicle.
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Yeah, but then your fuel economy goes to ****e, all of thoses sytems, whether they just change the boost or use nitrous/propane injection need to use a lot of fuel to tame the burn and keep it from going lean...

You can have economy or performance, but pretty much not both, and that's for diesels and gas engines...
 
I generally believe that diesel power is going to be the way many of our vehicles will be propelled in the near future. Although laws passed by the federal government will make it harder for many diesel trucks and cars to be sold in the US, the fuel efficency gains in porportion to price should encourage people to consider these vehicles before their petrol cousins.

GM has allready said that a new diesel V6 and V8 is on the way to the US possibly for 2007 or 2008. Presumably, these engines would be seeing duty in everything from the new Zeta Impala possibly to the Hummer H3 SUV. Although the thought of a diesel-powered Impala may not get most American's blood boiling, they would be a crucial part in encouraging diesel sales in the US, and turning around public opinion about the powerplant.

Take for example the popularity of Volkswagen's TDI lineup here in the US. Their cars generally have a wait list at most VW dealers I visit, and you are lucky to find a used model with a reasonable resale price. These cars hold their value because of their 42 MPG (average) fuel economy, along with the fact that they last for what seems like forever. I can recall reading a story in Car and Driver shortly after the MKIV Jetta TDI debuted where they talked about how even in the previous MKIII version, VW could often not produce enough of the cars to meet US demand, and thus demand increases to where we are today.

I myself have only had the privalage to drive a diesel vehicle twice in my life. One was a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado Duramax Diesel, and the other a 2003 Jetta TDI (before the power upgrade). I loved the ammount of low end torque, combined with the quirky clatter of the engine, I was hooked. I've been in persuit of a TDI Jetta or Golf for some time now, but it is the price of the car and the price of diesel fuel that puts me off.
 
YSSMAN
I myself have only had the privalage to drive a diesel vehicle twice in my life. One was a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado Duramax Diesel, and the other a 2003 Jetta TDI (before the power upgrade). I loved the ammount of low end torque, combined with the quirky clatter of the engine, I was hooked. I've been in persuit of a TDI Jetta or Golf for some time now, but it is the price of the car and the price of diesel fuel that puts me off.
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Just curious...where is the redline of the VW TDI Golf engine? I know that some of the newer diesels (BMW's, for example) have almost petrol-like redlines, but for me having only 2000 rpm or so to play with takes all the fun out of driving, and that alone takes a diesel out of consideration (unless it's for a big vehicle, like truck, etc).

Plus if you shift at 2000 rpm in a petrol car (and keep it right in that rpm band) you can sqeak out some surprising economy...
 
VAG diesel cars redline is around 5500rpm I think.

I hope audi still make a diesel V12 for their production cars.
 
Yeah, a Cummins 600, or a Duramax are fuel efficient.

you know, small diesels are more efficient...but the big, American pickup diesels....

I laugh if you think THEY'RE efficient.
 
Jim Prower
Yeah, a Cummins 600, or a Duramax are fuel efficient.

you know, small diesels are more efficient...but the big, American pickup diesels....

I laugh if you think THEY'RE efficient.
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a friend of mine has a new V-10 diesel and he barely gets 12mpg. is that efficient? lol no
 
They are still more efficent then their gas counterparts.
 
I get 50mpg on average from a 1.9 diesel engine, show me a 1.8 petrol in a production car that can get that. It's pretty consistent across engine sizes that diesels use less fuel, diesel costs more per liter though.
 
First off that's pretty lame and I didn't find it funny. People who make fun of SUV's are just idiots. There is nothing wrong with them, some like them some don't, simple as that. But show me something that can haul 7 people comforatbly, pull a boat, carry the gear, and get through the snow...and oh ya is for sale in America and doesn't cost a ton of money.
 
Err an Ice breaker, can't take one into town like, but it can do all the things you mentioned :p.

Didn't see money part, doh.

Actually though, how many people buy an SUV to tow a boat, to tow anything. How many people buy an SUV for anything more than school runs and shopping? Not many really, though at the end of the say, choice is a good thing, if somoen want's an SUV just becauswe they like the style of the thing, so be it. I don't always prefer the faster car in a comparison, sometimes is boils down to looks I like the choice regardless, if you want to have a go a SUV drivers, you have to have a go at sportscar drivers, sportscars and sueprcar are the most useless cars on the roads, 2 seats, no space, poor economy ect, ect. But people love them.
 
Lots of people around here who buy Tahoe's, Suburbans, etc. do in fact tow a boat, but since I live in Michigan and more people own some sort of watercraft then not maybe it isn't a fair comparison.

But I think the people who buy SUV's just to have one buy something more along the lines of a Ford Escape, Chevy Equinox, Honda CR-V. Something more car based then truck based.

Really though SUV's are nothing more then modern station wagons. When my parents were younger big station wagons dominated the streets...now it's just been replaced by an SUV. If people want to buy em, I don't see a reason to stop them.
 
non of the top selling SUV's can go up snow ski ramps like audi quattros. And they cant go offroad aswell as a Audi Allroad. Thats why theyre called SUV's. Sport Utility Vehicle. If you intent to go off roading one would usually buy a offroader or jeep. SUVs are just marketing ploys. They took a jeep shell, made it comfortable and tried to make it handle like a car.

There are many cars than can tow around the same weight as a SUV, excpt that it seems the only people that make those cars are the germans and they cost alot seeing as they are A6 sized and above.
 
Poverty
There are many cars than can tow around the same weight as a SUV, excpt that it seems the only people that make those cars are the germans and they cost alot seeing as they are A6 sized and above.
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Range Rover do it best, the Audi Allroad is good but 4x4's like the X5 and M Class arn't close to a Range Rover.
 
No one buys station wagons in the US unless it's a Dodge Magnum and even then they don't sell to well because they are station wagons. I personally would never buy an Audi because I'm getting an expensive car that will not pull my trailer.

But lets looks shall we?

Audi A6 built the way I like would run $50,890...I opted for the Premium package and the heated amenities, along with the power lift gate. Not over the top but some nice touches. It comes with a 3.2L V6 with 255hp and the 6 speed triptronic. However I could not find a towing package, nor could I find anywhere on audiusa.com where the tow rating for the A6 Advant was.

A Chevy Tahoe LTZ 4x4 when built the way I liked ran $48,055 and I got everything except DVD nav because I see no use for it. But I got the 20 inch rims, sun roof, 4.10 rear end, towing package, power lift gate, leather interior, Bose sound system, among other things. Not only was the Tahoe cheaper and had more stuff, more power, it could tow 8,200 lbs. That's a lot of weight and makes my boat look like nothing.

There for I see the Tahoe as the better buy here.
 
If your choice is for practical reasons which yours is, then it's a no-brainer. Here we don't get many US SUV's, most are imports, Range Rovers and Land Rovers are the king and are up there with style, space, comfort and image too, but I'd imagine that they'd be very expensive in the US. Posers buy M Classes and X5's, not that theres anything wrong with an X5 or M Class, they just don't offer the practical side of things as well as the Range or Land Rover's do, they do offer style, space, comfort and image.
 
In the US there is no reason to buy European SUV's, you are paying something double the price for something that is equally as good. Land Rovers are so unGodly expensive around here there is no point in owning one, and the ones that do own them are rich doctors and lawyers who think they need something like that. But most people who buy a Tahoe do need to to tow and because they have 3 kids.
 
The A6 can tow 4180 Lbs.
The A8 can tow 5060 lbs.

Range Rover can tow 7700lbs
VW Tourage can tow 7700lbs
BMW X5 can tow 5060lbs

So in the end it depends what your towing needs are but a audi A8 could tow two ford focus's, and still be alot faster than any SUV.
 
BlazinXtreme
In the US there is no reason to buy European SUV's, you are paying something double the price for something that is equally as good. Land Rovers are so unGodly expensive around here there is no point in owning one, and the ones that do own them are rich doctors and lawyers who think they need something like that. But most people who buy a Tahoe do need to to tow and because they have 3 kids.
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In europe people have 3 kids, need to tow and deal with snow all at on time....

They seem to manage with mercedes E-class etc.

On the continent it is actually a very common siite to see a fully loaded family car packed full of equipment and towing objects at quite high speeds.


Most people who buy tahoes however do not need to tow and dont need it because they have 3 kids.


This 22 Foot boat is 2200lbs.... So a A6 could tow something twice this size basically. And this boat cost $50,000+ new. I doubt the average Tahoe owner could afford something thats 3 times as big as the boat pictured to put the tahoes towing capacity to good use.

ae_3.JPG
 
But like Blazin said, despite being able to do that in other cars, you come to the cost issue, who's betting a Mercede E-Class costs a lot more. Over here sure, you have a valid case, but like we'd have to pay over the odd's to get a Tahoe imported here, the US pay's over the odd's for our cars we ship over there. You can buy a brand new Land Rover Discovery for less than £25k here, a Tahoe with 50k miles costs just under £20k and it's rhd.
 
Poverty
Most people who buy tahoes however do not need to tow and dont need it because they have 3 kids.
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3 Kids on a road trip in a standard 5-seater is miserable. Especially if one of them is in a car seat. Near impossible if two of them are. A 5 hour trip to grandma's house for the weekend becomes hell on earth.

Need to take your three kids and their sleepover friend somewhere in a 5 seater? Better not be planning on taking your spouse.

Need to move a mattress, desk, small couch, etc.? Want to keep it out of the rain? Better have a van or an SUV.

Give it a rest with the "tahoes are useless" bit. If that were true, nobody would own one. And yes, you can own a wagon or a minivan and get a lot of the use, but people like different combinations of utility, and different styles. I for one hope I never own a wagon or minivan. I sure as hell am not paying 50k for a stationwagon.
 

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