SUV's are obsolete

[///M-Spec]

you should be getting this one:

I keep looking at this picture expecting it to transform into an Autobot.

OT: Speaking of which, I was gassing up the wife's '05 Nissan Murano at a little gas stop in Georgia when a trucker shouted "the front end a that thang looks like a row-bot!" while gesturing at our SUV.

Erm. Okay. I guess when you spend most of the time looking at F-150s and Silverados (domestics rule in the deep south), something like a Murano would probably look a little um... sci-fi?


M

 

[JCE]

The Murano is elegant and sleek...that trucker can goto hell.

 

[Gil]

Utility vehicles will never, EVER become obsolete. I just hope the larger ones will become unnessisary soon, at least for public use. I can see the need for a large truck/SUV in the workplace but not for everyday use on the public roads.

An example would be the the recently dead Ford Excursion. I just dont understand why you would need something so incredibly large. I can understand that it comes in handy when you move furniture or other large or bulky items but why on earth would you drive one just to drive one. Smaller ute's just make more sense.

The Excursion is pointless if it is primarily used as a one person vehicle.
It has a huge turning circle. It uses a goodly amount of fuel. And it's really hard to see around.
However, I happen to have six sons. One is 21 and the other five are teenagers. A $50,000 SUV that seats 8 vs. a $100,000 car that seats 5.
It seems that I've saved myself $150,000 by buying an Excursion. Cause I'd need two Mercs to hold everyone.
Oh, I'm currently in Colorado Springs, CO on vacation. If you've been watching the news, you'll note that the 4WD came in quite handy this week.
Oh, and I'm towing a Civic back home to KS at the beginning of next week. None of the smaller SUVs you named would be up to the task of doing that and hauling 6 people in relative comfort, with all their gear in the truck, out of the weather.

Now, for the record: When I get back home, and all 8 of us have to go somewhere, I way more likely to pull my Chevy Venture out than the Excursion.
But for those of you hating on Excursions, Mine is less thirsty than an Expidition and holds more stuff.

 

[GT4_Rule]

The Excursion is pointless if it is primarily used as a one person vehicle.
It has a huge turning circle. It uses a goodly amount of fuel. And it's really hard to see around.
However, I happen to have six sons. One is 21 and the other five are teenagers. A $50,000 SUV that seats 8 vs. a $100,000 car that seats 5.
It seems that I've saved myself $150,000 by buying an Excursion.
Oh, I'm currently in Colorado Springs, CO on vacation. If you've been watching the news, you'll note that the 4WD came in quite handy this week.
Oh, and I'm towing a Civic back home to KS at the beginning of next week. None of the smaller SUVs you named would be up to the task of doing that and hauling 6 people in relative comfort, with all their gear in the truck, out of the weather.

Now, for the record: When I get back home, and all 8 of us have to go somewhere, I way more likely to pull my Chevy Venture out than the Excursion.
But for those of you hating on Excursions, Mine is less thirsty than an Expidition and holds more stuff.

Wow, 6 sons? No wonder you need the Excursion Btw its $50,000 not $150,000 that you'll save: 100,000 - 50,000. Just to point out.

The Commander, on the other hand, might be "Trial Rated," but I'd choose a more nimble Wrangler for Rubicon duty. I doubt the larger Jeep would even fit on the Rubicon.

Yup, its only good for trial. Not for real use jk jk Trail Rated ehh? That thing is?

 

[JohnBM01]

You're clean, Poverty. Every thread has a tendency to talk about the main topic, but then veer off into something else. Only as long as the topic doesn't become completely one-sided or ending up in an argument, then it is no longer okay. Maybe if this thread was titled about something in regards to the S-Class Mercedes-Benz and what it can do as opposed to regular SUVs, then this may have been a broader focus to the topic.

You're clean regardless, Poverty. This is just a healthy debate.

 

[niky]

Yup... tis' in the demonic nature of forums to pervert every thread into an argument... at least it ain't a flame war yet.

 

[niky]

Yup... tis' in the demonic nature of forums to pervert every thread into an argument... at least it ain't a flame war yet.

 

[Gil]

Wow, 6 sons? No wonder you need the Excursion Btw its $50,000 not $150,000 that you'll save: 100,000 - 50,000. Just to point out.

Your math is faulty.
In order to haul everyone I'd either have to make two trips or get two cars. At $100,000 for each Mercedes. I have indeed saved $150,000.👍

 

[psonefreak]

I wish more people would think like you do though Gil, using the big giant SUV when you need it. As much as I like the look of most SUVs made in US/Euro (I personally don't like JP SUV's but thats just my opinion) I hate being in my little low to the ground car (2002 Sable) and looking up and seeing a giant SUV looming over me Other than that I've really got nothing against them.. I'd not drive a giant one unless I really need to.. but I still enjoy driving my old small one (1987 GMC Jimmy)

I don't think they'll be obsolete for a long long time, if ever, just because people like them so much.

Very cool car though, would love to have one maybe when I get rich

 

[Poverty]

SUV's are a bit of a safety hazard when drivin at high speed. Porsche and BMW both had trouble slowing down their SUV's without disintergrating the brakes when doing emergency stops from top speed.

 

[YSSMAN]

GM puts 12 inch rotors on the front with four-piston calipers, and 13 inch rotors on the rear with four-piston calipers. It definatley counts on the "hydra-boost" brake system, combined with the large wheels and tires to bring it to a stop "quickly" at 201 feet from 70MPH. The VW Touareg by comparison requires 196ft to come to a stop from 70MPH, both of which are substantially less than the BMW wich requires only 168ft to come to zero.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Your math is faulty.
In order to haul everyone I'd either have to make two trips or get two cars. At $100,000 for each Mercedes. I have indeed saved $150,000.👍

Ohh. Didnt know you meant two of those M-B. Then it makes sense. 👍

The VW Touareg by comparison requires 196ft to come to a stop from 70MPH, both of which are substantially less than the BMW wich requires only 168ft to come to zero.

You mean more dont you?

 

[Danny]

I suppose if you bought one of those, you'd love it forever whether you took it off road.

You probably wouldn't, but it's nice to know you could.

 

[Sniffs]

Niky: american deisels are mainly used for hauling freight around...and max out around 2000 RPM with limiters.

americans are hauling around half a dozen clearance lights, airbags and braces, and quantities of comfort and convience items

Mustang: you figured that out...they buy the big monsters for the fact that they won't (supposedly) fold into an accordian from tapping someone else's rear bumpre at 3 MPH...which is why the safety gurus jumped all over the automobile in the US.

but making it illegal like that? that's considered naziisim by some people. and I'm actually USING my SUV for it's intended purpose, unlike those yutzes you've been talking about. my clients get carsick and muscle cramps in anything without at least 6-8 inches of head and legroom, and a rock hard suspension

besides, you try taking the likes of even a midsize car, rear drive or not, through driveways with 6-8 inches of snow on them, or with ruts a foot deep from equipment, animals, and big rigs. in other words...i'm not on pavement to begin with...of ANY kind.

as for Mercs...they're out of the price range of even the Doctors around here...not to mention you have to go at least 70 miles to find an import. we have only three foreign dealerships around here...Toyota/Scion, Volkswagen, and Honda...and we have more ATV/motorbike oriented Honda than Accord/civic, etc.

 

[Gil]

SUV's are a bit of a safety hazard when drivin at high speed. Porsche and BMW both had trouble slowing down their SUV's without disintergrating the brakes when doing emergency stops from top speed.

That is why when you drive any car you need to be looking up the road as far as you can see, and anticipate your need to stop well in advance.

 

[Onikaze]

Long live the Minivan.

Really, SUV's are just a "cool" Minivan right now, hopefully the fad will pass soon and they will go back to being a niche thing driven by the few people who use them....


Oh, and all the poor kids who wanna look "gangsta" and buy some of the stupidly cheap ones when the used market becomes glutted with all of them next time gas hits $3 and stays there.

 

[BMWteamPTG]

personally, i think people drive around the huge and, as in the title, obsolete SUV's because their on a f'n power trip. the bigger the better. now, for us cars guys, like myself, the ****** the better stands true too. but for us its the size of the engine or torque or whatever. not the amount of road we DONT take up. also, why waste the gas people? drop the SUV's when you couldve easily bought a mid-priced porsche or BMW or audi??? stupid stupid people...

die escalade die...

 

[niky]

@Sniffs: I can dig it... but then I drive an 85 hp 2-ton Asian Utility Vehicle (sort of like an SUV, seats seven) for work... ... still gets me up to 80 on the highway, but it's a b*tch to pass trucks.

-----

My only beef with the new SUV dictum is the need for all that power and speed. Seriously, past 100 hp, most power is redundant for what you need. A vehicle with 100 hp (oh, okay, maybe 200 hp if it's a 3 or 4 tonner) will accelerate as quickly as is comfortable for the passengers. Any more is just for the entertainment of the driver. Passing power is admittedly better with a bigger engine, but if the guy in front of you is going too fast for you to pass comfortably, you're both going fast enough.

Of course, I won't knock people's need for hauling or rock-climbing (which I love, by the way), their need for security and size (having a growing family, I understand that, too) or their need for speed. It's just silly to want all of it in the same package.

I think this numbness of steering, terrific sound insulation and softness of suspension is what's driving speeds up. Driving modern cars, it often feels like you're driving only 1/4th as fast as you really are... sort of like in Gran Turismo, actually. Roll down your windows, though, and you'll realize you're driving fast enough to peel your eyebrows from your face. Try it once, it's actually fun.

It scares me that so many manufacturers are pushing heavier and heavier cars as speed machines. Not just SUVs, mind you, but luxury sedans and über-coupes. I have this image of huge 2 to 4 ton boats screaming down our highways at 150 mph, gulping down tons of gas, and leaving just tiny little bits glass and metal whenever they run into something.

 

[Wolfe]

Long live the Minivan.

Really, SUV's are just a "cool" Minivan right now, hopefully the fad will pass soon and they will go back to being a niche thing driven by the few people who use them....

Oh, and all the poor kids who wanna look "gangsta" and buy some of the stupidly cheap ones when the used market becomes glutted with all of them next time gas hits $3 and stays there.

Actually, it's been said that part of the SUV's popularity was due to the lack of powerful (and/or affordable) RWD cars coming from Detroit...the american public never lost its infatuation with the muscle car, after all.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Actually, it's been said that part of the SUV's popularity was due to the lack of powerful (and/or affordable) RWD cars coming from Detroit...the american public never lost its infatuation with the muscle car, after all.

We never did!

 

[JohnBM01]

Okay, you talk about gas-guzzling SUVs being obsolete. How do you describe hybrid SUVs?

 

[niky]

Hybrid SUVs are a big ? for me... I've always held the view that if you want a more fuel-efficient car, get a smaller car.

But if you really need something big, it's nice to know that you won't have to sacrifice fuel economy. It would be nice if they'd refine DOD and other similar cylinder deactivation technologies even further (word is, under normal loads, they don't save that much).

The way I see it, hybrid tech gives you extra power when you need it, and a fail-safe for when you run out of gas... but the real future is in flexible-fuel engines that can run on anything... and possibly super-capacitors to replace the unwieldy and heavy battery packs current hybrids use.

But I still think lighter cars is the answer. With a hybrid SUV, you're simply using one aspect of the vehicle to make up for shortcomings it ought not to have in the first place.

 

[Wolfe]

But I still think lighter cars is the answer. With a hybrid SUV, you're simply using one aspect of the vehicle to make up for shortcomings it ought not to have in the first place.

Agreed. You're adding a solution to the problem, rather than removing the problem itself.

That's a big engineering no-no.

 

[Sniffs]

Niky: they haven't perfected hybrid for that yet over here. hope they get it right for the rest of the world, tho. don't forget that americans have to deal with higher weight due to required safety equip...i finally got an example. when Hyundai sent their Minivan over here the first time, it put on more weight to meet the US safety requirements than the engine was designed for.

 

[Danoff]

Hybrid SUVs are a big ? for me... I've always held the view that if you want a more fuel-efficient car, get a smaller car.

If you want a more practical car, get a larger one.

So it makes sense that one would make large, efficient vehicles.

 

[Poverty]

Okay, you talk about gas-guzzling SUVs being obsolete. How do you describe hybrid SUVs?

Well theer are also Hybrid cars so that cancels out hybrid SUV's.

I had a argument with some gezeer who was going on like the X5 was the greatest machinery ever, and that he wasnt just wasting resources, but instead required a large car so his dog could stand up in the back and space for the kids. Oh and also to tow his impreza

So I then took X5 stats and the Stats from a Audi A6 and the audi beat it in everything but towing capacity. The audi was rated at 1900kg and the X5 2300kg.

He then came back with the offroad argument and once again the audi came out on top. Well the new audi allroad (Jacked up A6).

Hes still sticking with his X5 though. He likes to look like a ****.

Wow the word tw@t has been filtered. Were britshinising the americans

 

[Onikaze]

Actually, it's been said that part of the SUV's popularity was due to the lack of powerful (and/or affordable) RWD cars coming from Detroit...the american public never lost its infatuation with the muscle car, after all.

I agree with this.

It saddened me the day that I realised the muscle car hadn't died, it had just gotten fatter, uglier, slower, and more absurd...here's for the big three bringing back real muscle cars to maybe pull us away from those monstrosities.

 

[niky]

@Wolfe2x7: said it better than me! 👍

@danoff: The largest, most practical car I've ever ridden was a Ford Chateau (E150) Wagon... nicest seats, too. Next to that, all SUVs feel cramped. ...also, as it carries ten or more people in absolute comfort, it more than makes up for its poor gas consumption.

@Sniffs: Yup, stepping away from the SUV issue, the weight thing sucks... especially as manufacturers can't leave it. With "compacts" pushing 1400+ kilos (1.4 tons!) and superminis just over a ton, now, I think the weight thing is ridiculous. There are some manufacturers that get better crash structures out of less weight. Some designers opine, though, that weights have peaked, and that we can only go down from here.

 

[Wolfe]

With "compacts" pushing 1400+ kilos (1.4 tons!) and superminis just over a ton, now, I think the weight thing is ridiculous. There are some manufacturers that get better crash structures out of less weight. Some designers opine, though, that weights have peaked, and that we can only go down from here.

Modern superminis weigh just over a (metric) ton? I haven't really looked at any specs for one recently...my car weighs about that much.

As for the peak, and the impending decline, it's plausible, given the fact that technology is constantly improving, but I'll have to see it to believe it.

 

[Sniffs]

Niky: ah, problem #2 collision reinforcements are the OTHER half of our major weight gain. but if your thinking of weight reducing materials? forget it. at least for over here. aluminum=$ AND i believe, the ay the insurance boys have been going...instant sports car grade, no mater what it's on