live4speedThat's the model that went out of production in 2004, I can't say if all thoes specs are right or wrong at this time, but I can say I'm off to bed.
BlazinXtremeNever said it couldn't, I've been argueing for truck based SUV's not car based ones.
- "Car-based," unibody SUV's are still SUVs. If you can agree that they are pointless for hard work, and just as capable as a car, then we've just established that a good portion of the SUVs out on the road aren't needed.
- "Truck-based," body-on-frame SUVs only hold two trumpcards compared to their unibody brethren -- they can tow more, and they can usually go deeper offroad.
Which brings up the question, once again...do the majority of SUV owners tow large boats and climb mountains in the middle of nowhere? Anyone who doesn't live near a lake probably won't tow a boat, and anyone who spends most or all of their time in the city probably won't go adventuring down a forgotten trail. Even if an SUV owner does leave the city and go camping with it, I imagine most people won't stray from the main roads.
The SUV has simply become the "popular" alternative to the wagon or minivan, and in many cases isn't used for anything that the other two couldn't do.
If you drive an SUV like a car, but more quickly because you feel safe in it, doing nothing but commuting while jabbering on your cell phone, complaining about rising gas prices, sell it and buy a car. If you need cargo space, buy a wagon. If you need people space, buy a minivan. And opt for the smaller engine choice -- the slower your car/van is, the less likely you are to kill someone else when you crash into them in the middle of your cell-phone conversation.
BlazinXtremeCar based SUV's aren't really SUV's, if it's unibody and FWD its more of a car then a truck. I don't really consider these things SUV's, they are big hatchbacks.
BlazinXtremeWell like Gil said they make 2x4's for a reason. If you aren't going to drive all over God's creation jsut get a 2x4. It's like driving a station wagon with more room and has the ablilty to do more things then a car would.
BlazinXtremeAnd if you live near a lake I would guess you'd tow a boat more since you are more likely to own a boat. In Oakland County (where I live) I think everyone lives something like no more then 5 miles from a lake. Which I think I can vouch for.
BlazinXtremeSo does that make sport compacts bad? I mean they are a fad and a popular alternative to "hot rods". Same logic, just because something is popular doesn't make it bad.
BlazinXtremeI drive my Blazer like a car and there is a good reason why I do, because I can and I can out handle quite a few cars, even stock I could out handle some cars.
BlazinXtremeI talk on my cell phone while I drive, I complain about the gas prices (I get in the low 20's which is pretty average). But you know what? I bought my truck when gas prices were 1.20 a gallon, but some of us don't have the luxery to buy a new car when gas prices jumped.
BlazinXtremeAnd based on your fast logic no one should buy sport compacts, sports cars, or anything that goes over 70.
Actually, wagons tend to have more room than some SUVs (for an intra-brand example, the BMW 5-series wagon is more roomy and practical than the X3 or X5, and is also available in AWD). Also, if you aren't going to be towing anything, there's no reason to choose a 2x4 over a wagon, and if you want to go offroad, then you shouldn't be looking at a 2x4.
I never used the word "bad." My point is that many SUV owners don't need their SUV's capabilities, so they could have settled for something smaller, or less rugged, or more efficient. Instead, they decided to buy an SUV because it's the "in" thing to do, and they didn't want to look like a "soccer mom," or whatever it is that wagon drivers are called.
The same point applies to sports compact owners. Why buy a Celica if you just drive it like a Camry? Why buy a Civic Si when you would have gotten along just fine with the hybrid model?
Did I not say that SUV enthusiasts are o.k.? Would you not classify yourself as one?
Low 20's is pretty good.
Some people here at GTPlanet don't have the luxury to live in america, where gas costs about 1/3 as much as it does in most of Europe.
Also, some people here in america refuse to change their driving habits and save themselves some money...but I suppose that goes against the american philosophy of "it's not my fault."
A lot of people drive over 70mph on the highway -- as a resident of Michigan, you should know that.
I would agree that anyone who drives lethargically, at or under the speed limit at all times, taking corners so slowly that bodyroll is 100% nonexistent, and doing nothing but commuting between home and work, shouldn't buy a sports compact or sports car. There are a surprisingly large number of motorists who do this, in those cars.
BlazinXtremeWhat are your choices for reasonabley priced wagons? You have a limited choice and I can only really think of the Magnum with the 3.5L V6 in it. Other then that you are going to pay an arm and a leg. Well I guess there is the Jetta and Focus but they are small.
BlazinXtremeI don't think people buy SUV's because it's the in thing, people buy SUV's because they like em. Buy what you like, hell just buy a car, it helps the Michigan economy which is one of the worst in the nation.
BlazinXtremeGas went up so you know what I did? I drive slower, easier on the accelerator, and I make sure the trucks in tip top shape. Most people did that when gas went up and I went from getting an average 16mpg to 23mpg (last fill up).
But it's not my fault gas went up, it's OPEC's...and I have nothing to do with OPEC.
BlazinXtremeEvery car has it's posers. People buy hybrids because they are "trendy", people buy sports cars and hardly ever drive them fast or hard, people buy whatever and never do whatever in them. I see it all the time, either that or they buy the popular car at the time...the PT Crusier is a great example of how something so crappy could sell so well.
But SUV's have been around since the 1920's, in fact the Suburban has been around since then. It's not a new concept.
Gilguess that makes me responsible.
I have an SUV and a Mini-Van. Depending on what the project is or the destination, determines which I'll use.
As for single person or 2-4 person trips, my wife says her Civic gets 37 mpg, My Camry gets 31, My #1 son's Metro gets 40 mpg. #2 Son's Lumina gets around 27 mpg, etc.
Of our 9 cars (yes, I know that's an excessive number, but 6/8ths of us drive.) The biggest "guzzler" of the regularly driven vehicles is either my Ranger or the Venture. Both get around 22 mpg. The truck has gotten 27, but that's the exception not the rule.
And of late, the truck has been doing a lot of sitting because the Camry saves me uses about 20 gallons less a month than the truck. That's $50 a month.
I still love my SUV for long trips, snow, and hauling crap.
GilThank you for that.
I guess I'm a bit "touchy" about the "All SUV drivers are supporting terrorism" BS.
IF Arianna Huffington was a man, I'd kick her in the "stones"...twice.
We're not all gas wasting fools. And the all-inclusive attitude of some folks gets to me.
BlazinXtremeSL65 AMG with the 6.0L V8 gets 13 in the city, and that with an aerodynamic car. But my favorite is the G55 AMG that gets 12mpg in the city, that's Hummer mileage. But I don't care if they make more power, if they are so great they should be getting better mileage. A Z06 has 500hp and doesn't get that bad of mileage.
I'm just pointing out the fact to Poverty that think German cars are better then God that they can be just as inefficent.
No offense, but what does the age of the SUV have to do with anything?
I have never mentioned those cars as I hate them. Theyre so pointless.
1. Blazing has now agree that most people dont go offroading and many people have 2x4's.
2.BX has also admitted that most people dont tow 22foot boats and even if they did you could do that in a car. A 22foot boat would only take up about 3/4 of a cars towing capacity.
3. SUV's get crap economy compared to their wagon counterparts.
5. Blazing has also realised that in most SUV's the 4wd system isnt up to the task of propper offroading.
6. Wagons often have more storage space than their SUV counterparts.
So why do people really buy SUV's?
1. It could be ignorance or lack of knowledge on their part that a car could do most things better or just as good as a SUV.
2. Because the likes of GM cant make anything thats good unless its a SUV or more recently a Z06.
3. Mercedes etc station wagons are out of most peoples financial reach.
I bet I get better mileage then someone with a V8 Magnum.
How does something smaller have more space?
I'm glad if you hate something, it becomes pointless.
It's so you can do your task and be comfortbale with the space and when it comes time to tow something you are using a 1/4 of the capacity rather then 3/4...which is easier on your equipment.
GM makes decent cars out side of the Corvette and SUV's/Trucks. But I'll never convince you of that because for whatever reason you fail to see that we live in America.
A longer wheelbase decreses the cars capabilities over hills and crests, as you go over a crest the front wheels lift off the ground at some point, then as they come back down the rear wheels come off the ground. The longer the wheelbase, the higher the chance the car will bottom out at this point leaving you a: stuck, and b: with damage done to the underside of the car if it's on a hard surface at least.BlazinXtremeAnd you realize people off road Suburbans right? Wheel base has something to do with it buy not a ton, if you have the ground clearence and the tires you'll do decently, if you have those and a good driver you'll be fine.
I agree with this, but that still leaves the argument open regarding the number of people that actually tow things with an SUV. I'm not convinced it's that high a percentage of SUV owners. Then I am specuating, and always will be because there are no figures to prove one way or the other so an argument based on either side of this point is pretty pointless imo.A car can tow it but it isn't easy and it would very hard on the car, you should finish the statement.
It's not so much less physical space, it's more a case of available space, some estates are packaged in a way that what space they have is used in the best way it can be which has in some cases, though not all, resulted in a smaller car being able to carry larger loads.How does something smaller have more space? What sort of Quantum Physics has the wagon industy done to do this?
The thought behind this is sound, but it's not always as low as 1/4 of the SUV's capacity, and it's have to be a small car to be 3/4's of that's capacity. There are cars that could tow a boat and still have half of their towing capacity and more. Though the average SUV would still do it easier, the better the car you choose is at it, the less of a big deal it becomes.1. It's so you can do your task and be comfortbale with the space and when it comes time to tow something you are using a 1/4 of the capacity rather then 3/4...which is easier on your equipment.
The simple answer here is, we don't get them, we don't know, maybe GM does, maybe they don't, I'll probably never get first hand experience.2. GM makes decent cars out side of the Corvette and SUV's/Trucks. But I'll never convince you of that because for whatever reason you fail to see that we live in America.
Can you please do comparisons for like to like engines. The V8 in the magnun probably makes 3-4 times the power of your car.
5 series touring has more space than the X5 in every department, can tow just as much and all while giving better economy, performance and more fun to drive.
Because I said that didnt I? Funny coming from the guy that doesnt like any german cars.
Whats more comfortable? A mercedes E-class with ABC suspension package or a tahoe?
If towing a 22foot boat requires a 1/4 of a SUV's capacity they it only needs 1/2 of a car, done easily enough.
Name 3. No opel derived products though.
A longer wheelbase decreses the cars capabilities over hills and crests, as you go over a crest the front wheels lift off the ground at some point, then as they come back down the rear wheels come off the ground. The longer the wheelbase, the higher the chance the car will bottom out at this point leaving you a: stuck, and b: with damage done to the underside of the car if it's on a hard surface at least.
It's not so much less physical space, it's more a case of available space, some estates are packaged in a way that what space they have is used in the best way it can be which has in some cases, though not all, resulted in a smaller car being able to carry larger loads.
The thought behind this is sound, but it's not always as low as 1/4 of the SUV's capacity, and it's have to be a small car to be 3/4's of that's capacity. There are cars that could tow a boat and still have half of their towing capacity and more. Though the average SUV would still do it easier, the better the car you choose is at it, the less of a big deal it becomes.
The simple answer here is, we don't get them, we don't know, maybe GM does, maybe they don't, I'll probably never get first hand experience.
Cadilliac anything, Buick LaCrosse, Grand Prix, Sky/Soltice (its not an Opel) and the new Malibu is actually quite liked...even though I'm not really a fan. And really Opel is GM so it doesn't much matter...so Saturns.
BlazinXtremeBut I can tell you the Tahoe has more leg room for the rear passengers.
PovertySo I think its time we recap here.
1. Blazing has now agree that most people dont go offroading and many people have 2x4's.
2.BX has also admitted that most people dont tow 22foot boats and even if they did you could do that in a car. A 22foot boat would only take up about 3/4 of a cars towing capacity.
3. SUV's get crap economy compared to their wagon counterparts.
4. Wagons are faster and more enjoyable to drive.
5. Blazing has also realised that in most SUV's the 4wd system isnt up to the task of propper offroading.
6. Wagons often have more storage space than their SUV counterparts.
So why do people really buy SUV's?
1. It could be ignorance or lack of knowledge on their part that a car could do most things better or just as good as a SUV.
2. Because the likes of GM cant make anything thats good unless its a SUV or more recently a Z06.
3. Mercedes etc station wagons are out of most peoples financial reach.
BlazinXtremeX5 is a car based SUV, I've never once said anything about them.
BlazinXtremeStill the bigger the vehicle the more space it will offer.
BlazinXtremeThe Tahoe doesn't have that long of a wheel base, it's 116 inches. An A6 has a 112 inch wheel base and a Range Rover has 113inch wheel base. So the Tahoe doesn't have a huge wheel base. Now Suburbans might be another story, but I know you can take those off road because lots of people do just that.
YSSMANSo the only major difference between the four is that the Tahoe is much, much larger, and is actually a truck based SUV. Fuel economy differences are minimal, the Tahoe can carry and tow more, and has a presumably greater capability offroad when equipped with the Z71 suspension option (comming later in the year I belive). Feel free to tear my research apart, but I thought I would add to the convo.
Yeah, big and gone thankfully. I drove one quite a long time ago that belonged to my friend's late father. How on earth anyone can drive them and turn them is an amazement, imo.SwiftWell, looking at Yssman's numbers, it seems that there IS infact a place for the SUV. Besides, Tahoe's really aren't that big anyway. Now and Excursion...that's big.