SUV's are obsolete

[Joey D]

Mini vans and SUV's are way different things. However the Honda is more then the Tahoe and the Tahoe can tow twice as much.

 

[Wolfe]

Mini vans and SUV's are way different things. However the Honda is more then the Tahoe and the Tahoe can tow twice as much.

So? My point all along has been that many SUV drivers don't need to tow twice as much.

YSSMAN showed us numbers that demonstrate that a Tahoe is bigger than a few European wagons.

I showed you numbers that demonstrate that a Japanese minivan is a much more efficient people-and-stuff mover than a Tahoe.

I never claimed that a minivan or a wagon is a complete replacement for an SUV, nor that SUVs are obsolete, as Poverty (jokingly) argued in starting this thread. My argument is that many (not all, nor almost all) SUV drivers could get along just fine with a minivan or wagon, and save money on gas, too.

 

[Joey D]

Except I promise if you drive around a mini van and you are guy...you will get made fun of. Mini vans are mom-mobiles, not manly vehicles. People don't always buy for what they should, they buy what they like...which I can't make any of you understand.

If you like SUV's you should buy, and I encourage you to buy whatever you like. I would never buy a mini van because I have no use for something that can't tow worth a damn and is made for taking kids to school. I would however buy an SUV because I can haul boxes, tools, tire, and other equipment...which I do. Lots of people who own SUV's use the cargo room.

But really it boils down to you should buy what you like, and if you say you shouldn't there is something wrong with you.

 

[Wolfe]

Except I promise if you drive around a mini van and you are guy...you will get made fun of. Mini vans are mom-mobiles, not manly vehicles. People don't always buy for what they should, they buy what they like...which I can't make any of you understand.

SUV drivers are vindicated too these days, being blamed for global warming, cutting of rainforests, and any other affront to nature that hippies can come up with. With the way you and danoff react to comments in this thread, and comments from other SUV owners such as Gil, this holds true in many parts of the country.

Meanwhile, anyone who drives not only an SUV, but something like a BMW X5...not only are they hated by hippies, they're also considered self-centered egomaniacs who want their SUV for nothing but image.

If you like SUV's you should buy, and I encourage you to buy whatever you like. I would never buy a mini van because I have no use for something that can't tow worth a damn and is made for taking kids to school. I would however buy an SUV because I can haul boxes, tools, tire, and other equipment...which I do. Lots of people who own SUV's use the cargo room.

But really it boils down to you should buy what you like, and if you say you shouldn't there is something wrong with you.

People may buy what they like, and I don't care about that...but that doesn't mean that every SUV buyer needs the SUV, nor does it mean that they'll actually use its capabilities at all...many SUV buyers have convinced themselves that they need their SUV, when they clearly don't. This is what I don't understand.

 

[Joey D]

SUV drivers are vindicated too these days, being blamed for global warming, cutting of rainforests, and any other affront to nature that hippies can come up with. With the way you and danoff react to comments in this thread, and comments from other SUV owners such as Gil, this holds true in many parts of the country.

Meanwhile, anyone who drives not only an SUV, but something like a BMW X5...not only are they hated by hippies, they're also considered self-centered egomaniacs who want their SUV for nothing but image.

I've been told I'm a terrorist for driving an SUV, I've been told I was the cause of all the problems of the world because I drive an SUV...you know what I tell them? Nothing, because I don't have time for idiots. If idiots want to believe SUV's are the cause of problems, then I will let them be idiots. SUV's are no more of crime of burning oil then anything with something bigger then a 4 banger.

People may buy what they like, and I don't care about that...but that doesn't mean that every SUV buyer needs the SUV, nor does it mean that they'll actually use its capabilities at all...many SUV buyers have convinced themselves that they need their SUV, when they clearly don't. This is what I don't understand.

Have you ever wanted something you didn't need? I'll wager yes. You don't need a car, but people buy them. You don't need anything except a small shelter, food, water, and money to keep all of it up. Everything else is luxery. So if you want it, just buy it, barring you can afford it.

 

[Wolfe]

Have you ever wanted something you didn't need? I'll wager yes. You don't need a car, but people buy them. You don't need anything except a small shelter, food, water, and money to keep all of it up. Everything else is luxery. So if you want it, just buy it, barring you can afford it.

That's beside the point. Sure, I've wanted something I don't need. That doesn't mean I convince myself that I do need it, and wonder why other people try to tell me that it's unneccessary.

 

[Joey D]

You have a PS2 I assume, you don't need it do you? But if I told you it was a waste you'd probably disagree. Same principal. If people like SUV's let them buy them, whether they use them or not. Life's to short to make other people happy. I could careless if people think I bought a trendy vehicle. They can pretty much just go suck an egg.

Buy what you want, it's your money.

 

[Wolfe]

You have a PS2 I assume, you don't need it do you? But if I told you it was a waste you'd probably disagree. Same principal. If people like SUV's let them buy them, whether they use them or not. Life's to short to make other people happy. I could careless if people think I bought a trendy vehicle. They can pretty much just go suck an egg.

Buy what you want, it's your money.

Not quite. If someone said to me, "hey, you don't need that PS2," I would say, "yeah. I know. I just use it to play games."

Many SUV drivers respond by saying, "nuh-uh!! I use it to carry X, Y, and Z, and this and that, and etc. etc."

For many, it's not a matter of "want" or "like." It's a matter of "need," even though they don't. They don't get any enjoyment or pleasure out of it. In rare cases, they don't even get any ego-boosting out of it. They just drive something that blocks other drivers' view more than any other car, drinks more fuel than the average car, and makes Jane Soccermom think she's Wonder Woman in poor weather conditions. To them, it's just another vehicle.

Legitimate reasons are legitimate reasons, and I won't argue with them (such as your enthusiasm for your Blazer, or the work that Gil needs his SUV for). But a lot of SUV drivers on the road don't even have any reasons.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Dont compare SUVs and Minivans - they arent even close.

Minivan: FWD, better packaging because they dont need Body-On-Frame
SUV: RWD or AWD, has Body-On-Frame cuz it gives trucks the durability (or I think so)

Minivan: V6 at the most!!!
SUV: Up to V10 (Excursion)

 

[Poverty]

Tahoe gets pwned in space and efficiency, and for about the same price (or less)...

+1

 

[Poverty]

Dont compare SUVs and Minivans - they arent even close.

Minivan: FWD, better packaging because they dont need Body-On-Frame
SUV: RWD or AWD, has Body-On-Frame cuz it gives trucks the durability (or I think so)

Minivan: V6 at the most!!!
SUV: Up to V10 (Excursion)

Whats cheaper to run?

Most people dont need SUV capabilities.

 

[Poverty]

Except I promise if you drive around a mini van and you are guy...you will get made fun of. Mini vans are mom-mobiles, not manly vehicles. People don't always buy for what they should, they buy what they like...which I can't make any of you understand.

If you like SUV's you should buy, and I encourage you to buy whatever you like. I would never buy a mini van because I have no use for something that can't tow worth a damn and is made for taking kids to school. I would however buy an SUV because I can haul boxes, tools, tire, and other equipment...which I do. Lots of people who own SUV's use the cargo room.

But really it boils down to you should buy what you like, and if you say you shouldn't there is something wrong with you.

Heres a challenge. You have one week. Go out with a camera and take as many pictures as you can of people using their SUV's to tow and haul stuff.

If you cant get more that 3, well then that will just be self explanatory.

Oh and no pics of propper trucks. I mean SUV's like the tahoe yukon and escalade. If you can do that you win.

 

[Dave A]

Poverty I agree with your posts, but theres three of them in a row, the edit button's there to be used .

If you want to add a quote into your post, copy the text you want to add into your edit, at the beginning of the text you want to quote post type [quote.] and at the end of the quote type [/quote.] but without the full stops. If you want to put in who the quote is from type

and at the end [/quote.] again without the full stops.

 

[McLaren]

Dont compare SUVs and Minivans - they arent even close.

Minivan: FWD, better packaging because they dont need Body-On-Frame
SUV: RWD or AWD, has Body-On-Frame cuz it gives trucks the durability (or I think so)

Minivan: V6 at the most!!!
SUV: Up to V10 (Excursion)

Mercedes' "Minivan" gets a V8.
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/mercedes-r-63-amg.htm

Why does it matter what engine it has?

That's like saying don't compare an NSX to a Ferrari, because the NSX has a V6 and aluminum body and the Ferrari has a V8.

 

[Dave A]

Surely an SUV with a V10 is missing the point anyway, a V10 can't be great for off road, or it would be far less economical than any 6 cylinder engines of a similar capacity.

 

[McLaren]

Surely an SUV with a V10 is missing the point anyway, a V10 can't be great for off road, or it would be far less economical than any 6 cylinder engines of a similar capacity.

I'm not saying I'm in a favor of a V10, I find it ridiculous.

The Excursion itself was too much a of gas hog.

While, a V6 may be best for SUVs, imo, I'd much prefer a SUV with a V8.

 

[Danoff]

The fuel economy comparison showed that the engine is basically what drives the fuel economy. If you want a V8 in your people mover/hauler, you're going to get fairly poor gas mileage and can pick from any number of cars (SUVs, minivans, wagons, two-seaters) and get similar gas mileage. If you're willing to drive a large vehicle with no power, yes by all means get yourself a hideous minivan.

Many people could use a minivan for what they use their SUV for. I don't deny that. What I deny is that they don't use their SUV for anything. I also deny that they shouldn't get a V8 if they don't need one. Further, I deny that they should ignore appearance when purchasing a car.

You want to haul people? You want a V8? You want a good looking vehicle? Get an SUV.

But if you want to haul people, don't get an SUV with basically the same capacity as a sedan (read BMW, lexus). Especially not one so expensive you'll refuse to take it off-road should you need to.




Poverty, Wolfe, Live, think of an SUV as a minivan with a V8.

 

[Dave A]

An SUV with a properly built V6 that's will do a hell of a lot better off road than an SUV with a properly built V10, it'll do better than one with a properly built V8 too.

as for hauling people, I would want something good looking, ie not an SUV , don't worry I'm just having a jab, I personally don't see anything attractive in an SUV looks wise, I think 99% of them are ugly, but I didn't grow up with them all around me, which would make a differente to my perspective.

I do see the benefit of owning an SUV if your situation needs one, what I don't see is half as many people that own an SUV needing one and that nothing else comes else comes, that's a point I stand by. I don't hold it against anyone if they do own an SUV and don't need it, if I did then technically I should hate TVR owners too, and Ferrari owners ect. As I said, it's a free enough world for people to decide for themselves that if they're happy to pay for it, they can have it even if there is a better choice for that person.

 

[Joey D]

Heres a challenge. You have one week. Go out with a camera and take as many pictures as you can of people using their SUV's to tow and haul stuff.

If you cant get more that 3, well then that will just be self explanatory.

Oh and no pics of propper trucks. I mean SUV's like the tahoe yukon and escalade. If you can do that you win.

First off I'm not taking pictures while I drive down the road, that's not even remotely safe. Secondly, that would be a waste of my time. I honestly have more productive things to do then drive around till I see trucks with trailers. But if I happen to see some in a parking lot I will take a picture.

 

[Poverty]

First off I'm not taking pictures while I drive down the road, that's not even remotely safe. Secondly, that would be a waste of my time. I honestly have more productive things to do then drive around till I see trucks with trailers. But if I happen to see some in a parking lot I will take a picture.

Surely you could take more than three pictures of SUV's parked up with a heavy load hooked up to them, seeing as nearly everyone in michigan according to you tows stuff. Should be a walk in the park.

I doubt you could even take 10 pictures of new SUVs with a towbar attached to them.

98% of SUV owners dont need all that towing capacity, and dont tow in the first place. Prove me wrong.

 

[Joey D]

Think what you want, but you are wrong. At some point in that trucks career it will tow something. You don't buy a truck based vehicle if you aren't going to tow something at least once. But I'm growing tired of argueing with you because you are in England and I'm in the US...there is such a big difference you'll never understand.

 

[YSSMAN]

...All you would have to do is go down to the Home Depot or Lowes to find people using their SUVs for the right reason...

 

[Swift]

...All you would have to do is go down to the Home Depot or Lowes to find people using their SUVs for the right reason...

Yeah, but they're probably still doing it the "wrong" way.

 

[Poverty]

Think what you want, but you are wrong. At some point in that trucks career it will tow something. You don't buy a truck based vehicle if you aren't going to tow something at least once. But I'm growing tired of argueing with you because you are in England and I'm in the US...there is such a big difference you'll never understand.

In england we would just rent a van/pickup for a day then. £50 and you have the van all day. Would sure save some money over having to buy a SUV when only using it once.

I think now would be a time to admit that the main reason why people buy a SUV is for image alone.

Dont have a problem with that at all. I just dont like people saying that its something its not.

 

[Danoff]

I think now would be a time to admit that the main reason why people buy a SUV is for image alone.

Over and over we have explained why this is not the case. You're simply not listening and it's quite irritating.

 

[misnblu]

I think now would be a time to admit that the main reason why people buy a SUV is for image alone.

I do have to say it's true to some degree.
The marketing of SUV's in America is now strictly to women.
Women want to look good in an SUV and because of it's size, why wouldn't they purchase one if it's something that can haul the kids, take in some groceries, and manhandle male dominated sport compacts off of the road because they're bigger than they are.
Quite the philosophy I suppose.
I'm honestly sick of these overly big vehicles and will hopefully come to an end with the price of gas getting so high.
Time will kill the SUV as time killed the Dinosaur.

Misnblu

 

[Dave A]

In all honesty and fairness, that view will change from area to area, wherever you go there will be people that buy them for a purpose and people that buy them because they think they look good in one. In Manchester theres very few reasons to own an SUV, theres not many around, but the ones you do see tend to be X5's and M-Classes, the occasional VW Touareg and a few Porsche Cayenne's. Out in Derbyshire theres a hell of a lot of farmland, there you'll see more Land Rover's and practical cost/perposeful SUV's (though the Touareg is purposeful I've yet to see one used in that way). I'm sure in Michigan if it's remotely like Blazin has said, then you'll find a hell of alot of people using SUV's for more practical purposes than you average Manchester rich kid trying to look like a pimp in his blacked out Cayenne. If you go to New York, I'm sure you'l see plenty of SUV's there, but the likelyhood is that they're not being used like the one's Blazin see's every day. You can ague this all day, all night and all the next day, and both sides will be right and wrong to an extent. You can say here in Manchester 98% of SUV ownerd DO NOT tow anything, or take thier SUV's off road, ever. If I go to my relatives in Mansfield, you could say perhaps 90% DO. I can't even attempt to guess at figures for any part of the US, but I'd theorise that different area's of the US would provide similar figure's. The whole argument is subject to location, and it's dragging on a bit.

 

[Danoff]

SUVs are purchased for a variety of reasons, not all of which apply to each consumer, and not all of which are valid:

Power (vs. minivans, some cars)
Seating Capacity (vs. 5 seaters)
Towing Capacity (vs. car chassis)
Ground Clearance (vs. minivans, cars)
RWD (vs. minivans, cars) Edit: 4WD option also a plus (vs. minivans, some cars)
Amenities (DVD, video games, etc) (vs. sedans)
Enclosure over the cargo capacity (vs. pickup trucks)
Safety (vs. cars)
Appearance (vs. minivans)
Gas Mileage (vs. some vans, comparable to other V6 or V8 vehicles)
Handling (vs. vans)
Ride Quality (vs. some cars, minivans, pickups)
Price (vs. some cars, vans)
Full Size Spare (vs. some cars, minivans)
Cargo Capacisty (vs. cars)

Of those, I'd say safety is the only one that isn't really a valid reason for picking an SUV, because it comes at the expense of others.

If you lay a tahoe out next to a Honda odyssey, you'll see that the tahoe gets only 5mpg less than the minivan (maybe even better if you compare V6 to V6, I'm comparing V8 to V6). If you told me the two were equal at all things (which isn't true because the Tahoe can go off-road, has more power, and can tow), I'd pick the tahoe because it looks better. I'd sacrifice 5 mpg for a better looking vehicle. That doesn't mean I'd have bought the tahoe for looks. It means that of the vehicles that did what I wanted to do, it was the best looking.

A lot of factors go into the purchase of a vehicle. Somehow folks have gotten it into their heads that SUVs are the bane of all existance because of their gas mileage. Minivans aren't much better but they're seen as responsible. Vans and V8 sports cars are typically as bad or worse, but somehow they don't have the evilness associated with them (no, the number of people that purchase them doesn't matter).

I'm sick of this conversation. I'm sick of listening to people who aren't listening to me. Where is your mercedes E class wagon? Where did it go? The responsible choice you guys were touting earlier!! I haven't heard a peep about it recently! Because it gets the same damn gas mileage as the SUVs you guys hate so much, but it can't do as much. That means you should hate the E wagon even more than SUVs, but I'm sure your attitude hasn't changed. Why would your attitude about a vehicle that gets SUV gas mileage but is less useful not get your attention? Because you hate SUVs irrationally. You like to hate SUVs, it makes you feel superior to others... regardless of whether it's warranted.

Go oogle over your V10 supercars guys. Go lust after that V8 powered sports car that gets SUV gas mileage but seats two people. Blame the SUV driving idiots of the world for everything you can think of, they'll be your scapegoats.

 

[skip0110]

danoff, you rule. +rep. Well said.

 

[Poverty]

Im out of steam for today. Maybe I shall try again in a week or so.

I just have to say how is RWD in a SUV a positive? Thats a big negative in my book.