Swear Filter

[Dave A]

That's a bit like being told not to speed and then you saying until I get a letter through the door saying I've been caught speeding I will continue to drive how fast I want, I don't go past speed cameras that often. You've just been told not to use them and why not to use them, to continue using them after it being made as clear to you as it has been is frankly as bad as spitting in the mods faces. Given that I am imperfect I don't expect to never include an expletive in any of my posts ever again, everyon has moments where they may simply forget because they're annoyed, tired or whatever but I certainly will try to keep it in mind not to do so. To stand there and say you'll still use them if you want, is really quite stubborn.

 

[kennythebomb]

That's a bit like being told not to speed and then you saying until I get a letter through the door saying I've been caught speeding I will continue to drive how fast I want, I don't go past speed cameras that often. You've just been told not to use them and why not to use them, to continue using them after it being made as clear to you as it has been is frankly as bad as spitting in the mods faces. I don't expect to never include an expletive in any of my posts ever again, everyon has moments where they may simply forget because they're annoyed, tired or whatever but to stand there and say "I'll still use them if I want" is really quite stubborn.

If I swear in future posts, it will surely not be for the reason to spite them or frustrate them with a bad attitude.... hardly any of my posts are ever meant to offend, and if someone takes offense, that is not my problem unless they directly PM me.

Well it's the same thing as your analogy. I am fully aware of speed limits.. do I always obey them? No... I drive according to how traffic is moving and to my own ability and the state of conditions. If it's a flat, straight patch of road and I am driving my own personal car and there is hardly a car around; 55 is not even an option for me. If the highway is congested, I will automatically slow down.

So yes I may be stubborn but I truly do not see how any of my posts involving asterisks could be offensive or of a lower quality... and thus it doesn't matter to me. Seeing as how I personally do not make a habit of rampant asterisks flooding my posts, I don't think this is even as issue that needs to be brought up.

 

[Scaff]

I understand that... but until I receive official warnings from GTP staff I will continue to post how I have. I don't typically use swear words (or asterisks to replace them), but when I feel they are necessary I certainly don't think twice.

You have however already agreed not to do so, when you joined you agreed to follow the AUP, which is very, very clear on the subject.

"Cursing does nothing to promote a positive atmosphere anywhere it is used, especially not an online forum."

Well I obviously disagree, but I will leave that alone.

No one is asking you to agree with it, you are being asked to respect the AUP by the owner of GT Planet.

Look at it this way, if you came around my house and swore I would ask you not to, if you refused to do so and continued to swear I would ask you to leave.

Regards

Scaff

 

[kennythebomb]

You have however already agreed not to do so, when you joined you agreed to follow the AUP, which is very, very clear on the subject.




No one is asking you to agree with it, you are being asked to respect the AUP by the owner of GT Planet.

Look at it this way, if you came around my house and swore I would ask you not to, if you refused to do so and continued to swear I would ask you to leave.

Regards

Scaff

Good points, technically I did agree to follow them... and if I was in your home I would without a doubt respect your wishes if you expressed that sentiment.

Perhaps it is a lack of respect on my part in regards to be willing to disobey the AUP on an online forum that I checked, but my opinion is still not swayed. That's how I am though... just ask my parents haha. They always had a good deal of explaining to do when it came to rules that I didn't desire to follow.

 

[Scaff]

Good points, technically I did agree to follow them... and if I was in your home I would without a doubt respect your wishes if you expressed that sentiment.

Perhaps it is a lack of respect on my part in regards to be willing to disobey the AUP on an online forum that I checked, but my opinion is still not swayed. That's how I am though... just ask my parents haha. They always had a good deal of explaining to do when it came to rules that I didn't desire to follow.

My point is however that this is Jordan's house (to continue the analogy) and he has asked us not to swear in it.

You are of course free to ignore that request, however the AUP does detail what the result of that will be.

Regards

Scaff

 

[kennythebomb]

My point is however that this is Jordan's house (to continue the analogy) and he has asked us not to swear in it.

You are of course free to ignore that request, however the AUP does detail what the result of that will be.

Regards

Scaff

Well if that result does come upon me, I will be fully surprised and yet also fully aware why.

Crap, and I forgot to take off my shoes, too.... at least I didn't track in any mud.

 

[Kent]

Go ahead and joke around "kenny" but you've got my attention so please don't be suprised when the full weight is brought down on you. 👍
You've made it clear that you have no respect for the AUP/TOS you agreed to, however, you haven't commited an offense yet. So with that in mind, enjoy the GTP and have fun doing what you do.
But be mindful, I'm watching for you now.

 

[Touring Mars]

I think Scaff has made the position quite clear, but I'd like to add something to the discussion. Enforcing the rules (such as they are) on the use of profanity (and issues regarding the swear filter) is a job that should be at the discretion of the moderating staff - for the benefit of everybody. In my view, the alternatives (i.e. no restrictions at all, or automatic penalties) are far less desirable.

A strict, black and white rule and/or automatic infractions for tripping the swear filter would be unfair, therefore there really isn't much other way of dealing with the situation fairly than to deal with situations as and when they arise - usually on a case by case basis. I think everyone would agree that, with a modicum of common sense, it is quite easy to know where to draw the line. If for some reason a member over-steps that line (either wityingly or unwittingly), it is the duty of a moderator to bring that to the member's attention. How the member then deals with the situation is entirely up to them.

Another point that should possibly be mentioned is that of how moderators deal with individual cases where there may be a point of dispute. Often, it doesn't help either party if more than one moderator is used to convey the message - hence why some issues begin to have the appearance of a 'personal' issue. All I can say is, that in the vast majority of cases where there may be a reason for dispute, mods do seek advice from each other and opinions on more contentious issues before then relaying the message back to the individual member. I think that it is a good thing for moderators to take the responsibility of dealing with situations and seeing them through, rather than opening up more channels of communication and potentially complicating a straightforward issue...

 

[kennythebomb]

Go ahead and joke around "kenny" but you've got my attention so please don't be suprised when the full weight is brought down on you. 👍
You've made it clear that you have no respect for the AUP/TOS you agreed to, however, you haven't commited an offense yet. So with that in mind, enjoy the GTP and have fun doing what you do.
But be mindful, I'm watching for you now.

I digress on 'no respect'

I admit I have 'no respect' in terms of the occasional tasteful swear.

As far as I know I don't break any other terms of the AUP... and if I do well they are likely other minor infractions too. So, saying I have absolutely 'no respect' because I choose not to adhere to one condition is unfounded, in my opinion.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Doesn't look like your infraction was for bypassing the swear filter, so your use of quotes there is erroneous. It looks like it was for "Abusive comments", only part of which was bypassing the swear filter.

Actually, after the PM you quoted, he specifically stated that it was for bypassing the swear filter, and I believe it was in a PM, but we'll let that go for now.

Have a quick memory check there. It wasn't my signature, rather GeorgeMorley's, and the

Yes, I realized that after I posted, but frankly, that signature stayed for a few months, without change, which tells me he didn't get any kind of message to remove it, let alone a warning, for at least a month or two.

That's terrific. SO you still think you deserved the infraction, but think other people deserve them too because you're no worse than them?

Actually, this is the first time I've heard that we aren't allowed to post any * words at all.

daan's point, made quite some time ago now, was how do you know the other people haven't received an infraction for it?

Because if they were issued on a regular basis, many would be banned that aren't.

And the simple answer is that you don't. Since other people have received an infraction for it - you're the only one who's kicked up such a fuss about receiving an infraction you've already argued that you deserve. But of course this doesn't fit into your preconceived notion that Scaff has it in for you (which is nonsensical anyway, as he could just up and ban you) so you have completely ignored this possibility./COLOR]

Again, they keep doing it, repeatedly, so if they are getting warnings, then the warnings must not carry any weight (because it keeps recurring)

Were you over the limit? Yes.
Do you deserve the ticket? Yes.
Did the cop ticket lots of other people that day without you seeing it? Yes.

Bad example, seeing as in my state, cops aren't allowed to give only one person out of a group a ticket, unless they are the first car clocked.

Yes. We've also been using quotes around it, to signify that it was a quote and not anything originating from us. How "ridiculous", eh?

Well, if it's so annoying, and repeated, let it be known. Unless you can name a word somebody has corrected me on, that I continued to spell improperly.

We do occasionally make a bad judgement call, and the system allows for that to be reversed or amended by the Admin - the possibility is always there. We have a few threads in our moderator forum, discussing decisions, good practice and visions for the site. Then again, there is a reason why the Admin have selected the moderators they have selected, and the number of decisions reversed since the infraction system arrived you can count on the fingers of one knee.

And there lies a problem, and as much as you can laughingly call it paranoia, the system protects itself, the moderators have a general respect for each other, and the likelihood of a group decision to humiliate one of you "colleagues" so to speak, seems a bit beyond expectation.

And if this would better fit another forum, than feel free to move it, as you do with other out-of-place threads. I saw no better place for it, as it is also current events, and if the swearing rules change, maybe it should be mentioned somewhere everybody will see? Or am I delusional for thinking that 99% of GTPlanet doesn't check the AUP every month to see what new rules are in effect?

 

[kennythebomb]

I think Scaff has made the position quite clear, but I'd like to add something to the discussion. Enforcing the rules (such as they are) on the use of profanity (and issues regarding the swear filter) is a job that should be at the discretion of the moderating staff - for the benefit of everybody. In my view, the alternatives (i.e. no restrictions at all, or automatic penalties) are far less desirable.

A strict, black and white rule and/or automatic infractions for tripping the swear filter would be unfair, therefore there really isn't much other way of dealing with the situation fairly than to deal with situations as and when they arise - usually on a case by case basis. I think everyone would agree that, with a modicum of common sense, it is quite easy to know where to draw the line. If for some reason a member over-steps that line (either wityingly or unwittingly), it is the duty of a moderator to bring that to the member's attention. How the member then deals with the situation is entirely up to them.

Another point that should possibly be mentioned is that of how moderators deal with individual cases where there may be a point of dispute. Often, it doesn't help either party if more than one moderator is used to convey the message - hence why some issues begin to have the appearance of a 'personal' issue. All I can say is, that in the vast majority of cases where there may be a reason for dispute, mods do seek advice from each other and opinions on more contentious issues before then relaying the message back to the individual member. I think that it is a good thing for moderators to take the responsibility of dealing with situations and seeing them through, rather than opening up more channels of communication and potentially complicating a straightforward issue...

I agree. It has to be on a case by case basis... a steady member who often contributes is going to be less likely to need to be reprimanded. I hardly ever see any of those members go off on an asterisk-fest, although a couple could spring to mind. What the AUP is really protecting there, I'm assuming, is the members < 18 who tend to flood their posts with constant asterisks. Now THAT is what I find annoying... not someone who tastefully uses the swear in proper context.

 

[kennythebomb]

And if this would better fit another forum, than feel free to move it, as you do with other out-of-place threads. I saw no better place for it, as it is also current events, and if the swearing rules change, maybe it should be mentioned somewhere everybody will see? Or am I delusional for thinking that 99% of GTPlanet doesn't check the AUP every month to see what new rules are in effect?

Pure guess... 100% of GTP (except maybe mods?) doesn't read the AUP every month but that isn't the issue. I would guess that 99% don't read it upon joining. I know I didn't, and I'm not ashamed to say that I didn't at least skim it until later on in my life here at GTP.


I would also guess that it isn't revised on a regular schedule like you may have just suggested.

 

[barryl85]

I'm not great with my grammar and i'm not the best at spelling either, we have tools for grammar and spell check but why would i use them when i think i have typed something correctly.

I hope i dont offend anyone on the site when i say this but what if we have a member who suffers from dyslexia? one of my friends does. I know how hard it is for him sometimes to spell things correctly and even say things correctly with tounge twisters and spell check doesnt often help him. If this site requires every post to have perfect grammar and spelling then i'm afraid i shouldnt be here.

I do agree however no one needs to bypass the swear filter, shouldnt need to swear at all.

 

[kennythebomb]

I'm not great with my grammar and i'm not the best at spelling either, we have tools for grammar and spell check but why would i use them when i think i have typed something correctly.

I hope i dont offend anyone on the site when i say this but what if we have a member who suffers from dyslexia? one of my friends does. I know how hard it is for him sometimes to spell things correctly and even say things correctly with tounge twisters and spell check doesnt often help him. If this site requires every post to have perfect grammar and spelling then i'm afraid i shouldnt be here.

I do agree however no one needs to bypass the swear filter, shouldnt need to swear at all.

Barry, the mods here are reasonable and are not grammar Nazis... if a user has dyslexia there is no cause for concern. Basically what they are after is that each poster posts to the best of their ability.

 

[Touring Mars]

I hope i dont offend anyone on the site when i say this but what if we have a member who suffers from dyslexia? one of my friends does. I know how hard it is for him sometimes to spell things correctly and even say things correctly with tounge twisters and spell check doesnt often help him. If this site requires every post to have perfect grammar and spelling then i'm afraid i shouldnt be here.

It's a fair point - anybody with dyslexia who had not made it known to a moderator or member of staff in advance, would probably eventually receive a warning for poor grammar/spelling, at which point they would presumably inform the staff of their status, from which point it would be taken into consideration. In other words, a dyslexic member would not be given unnecessary penalties.

 

[barryl85]

It's a fair point - anybody with dyslexia who had not made it known to a moderator or member of staff in advance, would probably eventually receive a warning for poor grammar/spelling, at which point they would presumably inform the staff of their status, from which point it would be taken into consideration. In other words, a dyslexic member would not be given unnecessary penalties.

What if they were ashamed to say? And what about someone like me, i'm not great at english, i may not be the worst but i do often make mistakes especially with my grammar - should i go back to school just to stay a member?

I know thats sounds a bit cheeky but i am only stating my opinion.

 

[kennythebomb]

What if they were ashamed to say? And what about someone like me, i'm not great at english, i may not be the worst but i do often make mistakes especially with my grammar - should i go back to school just to stay a member?

I know thats sounds a bit cheeky but i am only stating my opinion.

If they were ashamed of it, I'm sure the provision would be made so that only moderators would know; it would be kept confidential for you I presume.

Did you read what I said about posting to the best of your ability? If you suck at English, that's okay... just make an attempt to be coherent.

 

[barryl85]

If they were ashamed of it, I'm sure the provision would be made so that only moderators would know; it would be kept confidential for you I presume.

Did you read what I said about posting to the best of your ability? If you suck at English, that's okay... just make an attempt to be coherent.

Thats all i wanted to hear, but i hate when people are being picked up all the time for a couple of spelling mistakes, when everyone knows what they really ment, and i dont mind it from moderators but its other members who occasionally set out to correct others (however sometimes members do need to be told as they seem to be taking it too far or using text message talk in which i agree any member can advise).

 

[Duke]

People rarely get picked on for simple typos and spelling mistakes. People DO get picked on for continual use of lazy words like 'u' and 'plz' and 'ppl', or for large numbers of spelling errors in all their posts - anything that makes it difficult to read for the average user or people who do not use English as their native language.

The user's native language is definitely taken into consideration when their posts are examined. Frankly, there's no reason that anyone from the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, or New Zealand can't use clear, coherent English. Yet many of the worst offenders hail from those countries, and grew up using English. There's no reason those people should not be held to a higher standard than someone who uses English as a second or third language.

 

[Kent]

I digress on 'no respect'

I admit I have 'no respect' in terms of the occasional tasteful swear.

Oh, thanks andrew dice clay, I'm glad to know you tastefully swear.

As far as I know I don't break any other terms of the AUP... and if I do well they are likely other minor infractions too. So, saying I have absolutely 'no respect' because I choose not to adhere to one condition is unfounded, in my opinion.

As far as I know, I never said you did break any other rules.
For that matter, I don't recall saying you had "Absolutely" no respect. But at the same time, even you admit that you have no respect for said rule/rules.

Also, I believe "no respect" for the rules on swearing and vulgar language are the very topic of this thread so there's no need to digress (since you're not actually going away from the topic). ("Digress" means to wander away from the topic)

Finally, I just want to mention that it's totally your call.
You can swear if you want, you can do as you wish- but it comes with a price.
Lucky for you, you can find out what that price is by simply reading the AUP & TOS. 👍

Regarding Leadsled...
This is dead for him.
In my eyes he has lost all credibility in this thread and only continues to dig a deeper hole that moderators will always remember.
Sad to me because I had some fun racing with him/you in the N2 Ring racing thread.
Oh well.

 

[Touring Mars]

Regarding Leadsled...
This is dead for him.
In my eyes he has lost all credibility in this thread and only continues to dig a deeper hole that moderators will always remember.
Sad to me because I had some fun racing with him/you in the N2 Ring racing thread.
Oh well.

Well, it is an opinion after all, one that he's entitled to air/discuss and atleast has had the balls to defend/argue rationally, so whether or not his point has been established or not, I wouldn't have said that he'd lost credibility...

 

[Diego440]

Well, it is an opinion after all, one that he's entitled to air/discuss and atleast has had the balls to defend/argue rationally, so whether or not his point has been established or not, I wouldn't have said that he'd lost credibility...

Well, according to certain members, an opinion must be backed up by hard facts and under no circumstance may you base your opinion on personal beliefs of stances you're not sure of.

On the dyslexia, you could always go with TVR's excuse, and say you MS Word is faulty

 

[Touring Mars]

Well, according to certain members, an opinion must be backed up by hard facts and under no circumstance may you base your opinion on personal beliefs of stances you're not sure of.

I'd rephrase that ever so slightly to: "an opinion should be backed up by hard facts and under no circumstance should you base your opinion on personal beliefs of stances you're not sure of" - otherwise ownage may result swiftly

 

[Diego440]

not to hijack this thread, although its original issue has been dealt with, imo. But I've had similar instances where I've had to argue to meaning of opinion, where people have been quite stubborn to understand it. An opinion is:

1. a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty
2. a message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified.

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

So there's no way opinions could be backed by real data. Those would be certainties.

 

[Kent]

I suppose credibility is a bit off... Integrity maybe?
My view is that he commited an infraction and irrationally argued his case.
Bringing problems with the mod staff's reaction to his infraction into the opinions forum is back-handed, illogical, and just plain wrong.

His continued attempt to argue what is not an argue-able point futher hurts his cause and (in my eyes) his credibility.

Remember, credibility is not what he is displaying based on your points (TM). Rather, that is gall (or to put it bluntly- "balls").

Credibility on the other hand is the value or validity carried by a person or their words. 👍

That's why I said he lost credibility with me.
( Post like this are what does it for me )

(that whole attitude of... the mods are out to get me, the mods are all in it together, the rules are changed every month, I did nothing wrong, I'm gonna debate you about the specifics of my infraction... etc etc...)

Just accept that you messed up and move on.

 

[Scaff]

Actually, after the PM you quoted, he specifically stated that it was for bypassing the swear filter, and I believe it was in a PM, but we'll let that go for now.

I am more than aware that I have asked the admin team to look into this, but I have been looking at the above and feel that I have to reply.

The PM being referred to is here, I have also included the PM sent to me by LeadSlead following the issue of the infraction for context.

Would you find it odd if somebody said maybe you have an alterier motive here, Scaff?
It could seem as maybe you have a bit of a vandetta, given the circumstances, no?

I find the manner in which you pose the question far more odd, I can only take it that the 'somebody' here is you and if that is the case actually say it.

To answer the question, no I have no ulterior motive here, nor is a vendetta in effect.

Lets be quite frank about this, if I wanted to ban you I would have done so by now, the sheer number of AUP violations you have managed to rack up from a general abuse of the English language would be more than enough.

The infraction was for a clear breach of the AUP in terms of language (as in the swear filter) and attitude, I think that the reaction you got from the other members here at GT Planet should demonstrate that.

However if you do feel that I am 'targeting' you then feel free to raise the issue with any member of the admin team.

Regards

Scaff

I have quoted both in full and while this does go totally against what I wanted to do, I feel that I can't sit back and be constantly misquoted/misrepresented, yes I did mention the AUP in terms of the language, but also (as per the original infraction) the area of attitude in posts towards other members.

This will be my last comment on this subject as I believe this is an issue for the admin team to deal with.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Famine]

Actually, after the PM you quoted, he specifically stated that it was for bypassing the swear filter, and I believe it was in a PM, but we'll let that go for now.

The official Infraction log contains the original PM sent to you, where the Infraction is clearly stated as "Abusive Comments".

Yes, I realized that after I posted, but frankly, that signature stayed for a few months, without change, which tells me he didn't get any kind of message to remove it, let alone a warning, for at least a month or two.

And why would he? Why should someone get any kind of warning for quoting something which didn't originally attract a warning itself?

See "Grandfather Rights" (or "Grandfather Clause").

Because if they were issued on a regular basis, many would be banned that aren't.

[...]

Again, they keep doing it, repeatedly, so if they are getting warnings, then the warnings must not carry any weight (because it keeps recurring)

This makes no sense. At all.

Infractions and warnings are carried out in private. So unless you have access to someone else's Private Messages, or they share them with you, you will never have any clue if they have received a warning or infraction at all, let alone what it was for.

Fact is, a lot of people DO get such warnings and infractions and then either continue on to their demise or cease doing it.

For your argument to make any sense you need to show that there are members who post filtered words denoted by asterisks and continue to do so. So, I'd like you to cite me a few instances of members posting potentially filtered phrases in, oooh, the last 2 months who then went on to do it at least twice more.

Bad example, seeing as in my state, cops aren't allowed to give only one person out of a group a ticket, unless they are the first car clocked.

Errr... treacle?

(I haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about)

And there lies a problem, and as much as you can laughingly call it paranoia, the system protects itself, the moderators have a general respect for each other, and the likelihood of a group decision to humiliate one of you "colleagues" so to speak, seems a bit beyond expectation.

Where have I laughingly called "it" paranoia? What is "it" that I've said this about anyway?

That aside, I'd like you to look up the phrase "Quid custodiat ipsos custodes?"


We have a Moderator forum. Discussion on decisions and good practice occur in here a lot. And I mean a lot. Don't see the staff as a single amorphous whole - we disagree with each other from time to time but, as you can tell, this isn't one of them.

if the swearing rules change, maybe it should be mentioned somewhere everybody will see?

As far as I'm aware, they've never changed. But, as part of the ongoing discussions into good practice that happen in the moderator forum, our treatment of it has changed slightly.

Or am I delusional for thinking that 99% of GTPlanet doesn't check the AUP every month to see what new rules are in effect?

I'm not aware of any new rules having come into existence in the entire time I've been here.

 

[Roo]

If you really can't avoid swearing - which is a silly thing to say; you can always avoid swearing - then there's always the 🤬 smilie. Then you don't have any issues with astrixes (astricies? asterisks?) or the swear filter whatsoever.

 

[Casio]

So should I report this post by a certain Super Mod?

Oh, for ****'s sake! The word "error" is too hard for the average person to understand, and has to be replaced with "something bad"??

Hell it was even made after this thread had started.

No. Because we all know the difference, between the swearing that you want to ban, and the swearing that's generally acceptable. If there is a blanket rule, then sorry GG, you have to lose 1 point.

 

[Famine]

Well, you can report it, if you like. Should you? I'll leave that to your discretion.