Swear Filter

Discussion in 'Opinions & Current Events' started by LeadSlead#2, Sep 16, 2006.

  1. LeadSlead#2

    LeadSlead#2

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    I would like to know the definition of "bypassing the swear filter"
    recently, Scaff has accused me of bypassing the swear filter.
    here is what I typed.
    now, what I would like to know, is how is this different from, "Are you guys on ****in crack?"
    isnt the first one less descriptive? isnt that better, not worse?

    1. ****
    2. ****
    3. ****
    4. ****
    5. ****
    6. ****
    7. ****
    8. ****
    9. ****
    10. ****

    3 of these I typed 4 asterix, the other 4 are a 4-letter word. If anyone can spot the supposed "bypassed" ones, please share.


    I would also like to see if proper grammer is being enforced across the board, or if it is just Scaff checking my grammer, as it would seem my posts generally have less mistakes than some particular members that nobody says anything to, not even Scaff.
     
  2. daan

    daan Moderator

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    You, and everybody else, should be able to make posts without using any asterisks.

    * = Asterisk

    [​IMG] = Asterix

    And proper grammar is enforced across the board. How do you know it isn't?
     
  3. Roo

    Roo Premium

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    Just out of interest - and slightly off topic - why do you feel the need to make the swear filter do some work in the first place? You didn't have to put a swear word in a question about drug usage.
     
  4. LeadSlead#2

    LeadSlead#2

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    Here's how:
    I read posts like this most every time I visit GTPlanet, but I only hear anyone say anything if it's somebody new, or somebody they don't like. I have never, ever, heard this particular person have anything said to them, and they are one of the worst offenders here.
    Frankly, I don't care if they don't have anything said to them, so long as I don't hear anything either, but suddenly, now that Scaff is angry, I hear something. hmmm...?
    Let's be honest, there are a few people, a small circle, of 50(ish) people, that simply don't have to abide by certain rules around here. And that's because certain other people share their points of view, thereby causing them to get along.
     
  5. G.T

    G.T

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    This thread mainly explains about your swearing questions.

    This recent thread explains about the grammatical changes GTP has gone over the last few years.

    Surely there must have been something before to make Scaff contact you about your grammar and spelling - I doubt he'd contact you just for the hell of it. I'm sure they try they best to make things fair around here, but yeah, I do know a few people that post like that.

    Edit: By the way, good point brought up below: who says those members haven't been contacted by PM already? It doesn't necessarily have to be told to them they need to improve grammar/spelling through a public post.
     
  6. daan

    daan Moderator

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    I ask again. How do you know they haven't?
     
  7. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    Hey you read my posts, cool. Theres two typo's in that, and I point out accidental typo's themselves are not against the AUP (thank goodness for that). Good grammar and spelling is enforced, however you will probably not be pulled for the occasional typo or grammatical error, you probably will be pulled if it seems your not making any effort though.

    As for rules, if I'm one of thoes "50(ish) people" then I can assure you, I do have to follow the rules. I have had PM's regarding grammar before (anyone remember these ''''''''''''''), and I have been slapped on the wrists for double posts and I have been told to be easy on the language at least once. You know what goes a long way to getting the mods off your back, saying "okay no problem, I'll bear that in mind" and then actually bearing it in mind.

    Sure sometimes a member can seem like he's becoming a bit of a scapegoat, but if you look back over your posts, don't you think you were asking for it a little bit. You haven't made much if any attempt to comply with the mods, rather you've looked for excuses. This thread being a prime example of "well if so and so can do it, why can't I". Here's a news flash for you, so and so can't do it. Not me, not the mods not any member on here. The bottom line is the less respect you give to other members, the less respect they'll give you, and that includes the mods. If you bitch about them, and what they're saying they will treat you harsher than a member who joins, makes a few bad posts then when told about the rules apologises and adapts. At the end of the day they don't want people who will ignore the rules and will argue black is white and will have four little asterisks in almost every post on here.

    It's not about making the odd post, it's about consistency, if your a member who's consistency is good then 1 out of 500 posts will likely not bat an eyelid (unless it's notably bad ofcourse), if however it's the other way round you'll find youself getting banned, which is frankly, fair enough.
     
  8. Disturbed07

    Disturbed07

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    does'nt sound like he violated this description here.
     
  9. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    I'm sorry but
    is not what Famine was saying is probably okay.
     
  10. LeadSlead#2

    LeadSlead#2

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    far as I know, I don't say * words to much 'round here.
    And it's not the fact that something was said to me about grammer, I know I misspell words, the problem is that I was'nt shown any kind of example, and it just had the oh-so-perfect timing to look like Scaff is on a power trip.
    (It was the first and only time I've heard anything about grammer)

    exasperation would define my exact feeling at that moment.
    let alone the fact I don't litter these threads with *'s
     
  11. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    Well if that's the case bear it in mind that arguing with the mods will make it harder for you, it will put you in the proverbial spotlight. Accepting that you have to make an effort however and acting on that will take the spotlight off you somewhat. Arguing with them puts it on you, and it gets brighter and brighter the more you argue.

    No one makes perfect posts all the time, no you, not me not Scaff. At the end of the day it comes down to consistency and context, I've looked through a lot of your posts and all I seem to see is you and Scaff going at each other. Perhaps you have offended him in your approach to dissagreeing with him, and he's pointed that spotlight on you because of that. Remember that the mods are human too and can make mistakes too, they can wake up on the wrong side of bed too ect.

    Your best bet is that if your in a heated debate, don't reply until you've cooled off. Your 23 or near enough so I can appreciate it can be a bit sore to be told things like that. Don't give anyone ammo to shoot you down with and you'll find yourself out of the spotlight and away you go. Also note that if you feel your being geniunely treated unfairly by a member of the site staff you can PM Jordan about it, and he will look into it and should he see that your right he'll tell the mod to ease off. Remember that what you send in a PM will have a big impact in how it's dealt with too. Should he think your in the wrong then you'll get a reply explaining why your in the wrong.

    And also remember just because not everyone get's told on the message boards themselves, that doesn't mean they don't get told the same things as you.
     
  12. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    The quoted post doesn't seem to be that bad. But, as daan says, how do you know that the member in question, who you consider to be "one of the worst offenders" has not had anything said to them? These things are generally dealt with by way of Private Message, and the thing about Private Messages is that, well... they are Private. So, unless they're sharing things with you, you don't know if they've had anything said to them...

    L4S seems to indicate that the post in question is his. If this is true - and I don't have the time or inclination to check it - then I can assure you he most certainly has had something said to him in the past about his use of our language...


    Incidentally, this whole thing seems to be about how unfairly you have been treated by a moderator. If you disagree with any moderating decisions you are entirely free to take it up, via PM, with any of the Admin staff - Duke, Der Alta or Jordan. All infractions and warnings are now automatically logged and all staff can refer to them at any time. Posting a thread about it doesn't seem... helpful... to me. It has little potential for a good conclusion and lots of potential for a toy/pram malfunction and slagfest.

    I'd also like to add that my post, as quoted by Disturbed07, was made in November 2003 and much of it was made of direct, though manually-censored, quotes of a banned member.
     
  13. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    LeadSlead#2

    Can I ask why you feel the need to open this up as a public thread?

    Do you feel that you can't discuss this with me in the current PM conversation?

    As Daan has already mentioned, firstly how do you know that the issue of spelling and grammar has not been raised with these other members? Secondly I have already let you know on at least two separate occasions that should you feel that this is a personal issue then I am quite happy for you to contact any of the admin team and ask them to look over every single part of this.

    I am quite happy for them to review every single thread, post and PM involved in this.

    I personally believe that this is the correct approach to take in this matter and I (given the circumstances) will not lock this thread, but I do believe that it should be locked. Principally because it does nothing to further this in any way. I do also have to ask why this is in the Opinions & Current Events sub-forum, Site Feedback would appear to be a more logical place.

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  14. LeadSlead#2

    LeadSlead#2

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    That's a very good point, I guess I made my judgement based on the fact that it continues, with many people on this site, regardless of whether or not they are told.

    It is his post, and quite frankly, he does have many mixed-up words in many posts. I'm not saying I have a problem with that, nor am I saying he should get told about it. I'm saying it is rediculas to tell one of the very few people on the site that uses capitol letters, that they are'nt using them enough.


    I could, but that's not going to show them the general context of my posts, nor how it is in relation to general members posts. And I'd rather not have them need to parade around the site for a few hours, simply because somebody did'nt like the way a disagreement played out. That would seem unfair to me, for them.

    I understand that was from a banned member, but, the quote was saying what is and is not, acceptable. Clearly what that member said was unacceptable. But as I read it when I checked (I was going to post nearly the same thing), it states that all the *'s were hand typed, which is nothing more than I did, and it also states that one here-and-there should'nt be a problem.

    The whole point of this thread is one, simple question: Are the AUP rules going to be enforced uniformly or not?
    I am not saying in any way that I've never violated those rules. I am saying that I violate these rules no more than many members on the board.
     
  15. IH8GWB

    IH8GWB (Banned)

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    well a person that studies I.T knows how to bypass the filters.
    I have done it.

    NOT telling other people on how to do this.
     
  16. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    The infraction report takes anyone viewing it right to the post in question, in the thread it was posted so as not to blur the context.

    All three of them spend a lot of time on the site anyway - they know what the background is and, it must be said, that's part of the reason behind the drive to improve the background.

    That's what they're paid for.

    Except without the money part, obviously.


    Yes - THREE YEARS AGO. The situation today is marginally different.

    Again, yes - THREE YEARS AGO.

    But in the context of that post, I was directly quoting - though I had the respect to change what was actually typed for asterisks. It's the difference between saying the "c" word in a film and seeing it printed on a 30 foot long poster over a freeway as the title of one of The Vagina Monologues ("Reclaiming :censored:"). Granted, it's a very fine line, but it IS a line.

    And again I'll note that the post was made in November 2003 and standards have changed since then.


    Yes, they are. A quick glance in the moderation forum will reveal a swathe of Spelling/Grammar warnings and infractions - much more so than any other offence.

    I'm sorry - that doesn't fit with the fact that you've accused Scaff of having a "vandetta" against you. You're now arguing that you should have received that infraction and so should many other people. But the fact is you DID receive the infraction and so have many other people, but you just don't know about it because it's generally dealt with via PM and no-one else has posted a thread to complain about it...

    It's akin to complaining to a cop that you've been pulled for speeding when lots of other people are doing it as well. That cop won't just pull you over that day - he'll pull lots of people, but you won't know about it because you don't watch the cop all day and none of the other people pulled run around complaining about it. You only have experience of your experience, which is that you got pulled - and because you haven't seen anyone else getting pulled, you think they're picking on you and it's all terribly unfair...
     
  17. Evolution.

    Evolution. (Banned)

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    Sorry man, but nobody thinks you are cool because you can say you know how to bypass swear filters because you supposedly have taken I.T college courses.

    Anyways, back on topic:

    I think Famine has pretty much just shot this topic in the head.
     
  18. Klostrophobic

    Klostrophobic

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    I'm relatively immature, so I actually type out the letters. Like so:

    The Man can't keep me down.

    Wristwatch.
     
  19. YSSMAN

    YSSMAN Premium

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    Well there is obviously a purpose to having the foul-language filter on these boards, and that is mostly because there are plenty of minors floating around that we generally don't want to have reading words like that.

    Using these "sentence enhancers" (thanx Spongebob!) in your posts does very little to prove a point in any way. Much like a spoken converstation, it makes you sound dumb, and rather unfounded in your position. Granted there are times that I have used some "sentence enhancers" in my fury against some forum members (several of them now gone), but I will often resort to the usage of other substituions, or just not even use them at all.

    ---

    As for the grammar part of all of this, that is a part of your best judgement as well. There are plenty of users on these boards that seem to have failed school based uppon their grammar skills. There have been times where I have needed to re-read postings two, three, maybe even four times to decide what exactly they are saying. What it comes down to is this:

    Why post something when no one will understand it to begin with?

    If I wrote an entire post in L33t speak, chances are they would be deleted, and I would move closer and closer to a ban. It feels much the same when people cannot seem to tie words together into complete sentences, much less complete paragraphs that contain a single thought.

    ---

    I guess what I'm saying is that the best way to avoid trouble is to just not do it in the first place. If I am indeed a memeber of the "Elite 50" that you speak of, I'm certain that there are plenty of things that I couldn't get away with, and I'm sure that other members of the same group can attest that they have not either.

    Maturity plays a large role in all of this as well. Some of us have been known to have a bit of a "matuirty breakdown" on some issues that have gotten particularly heated, noteably former wars of words between BX, Poverty, Tornado, and myself. Granted, they are often solved by someone wising up or a moderator breaking in, but we all learn sometime or later.
     
  20. LeadSlead#2

    LeadSlead#2

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    No Famine. My infraction was for "bypassing the swear filter". I did not bypass anything. I'm admitting to mispelled words, and drastically better use of capitol letters than 90% of GTPlanet members.
    I assume you also remember you signature from about 3 months ago as well. which included about 10 ***-out words in it. that was not from 3 years ago, rather, just 3 months(ish).
    The point is, I use potty words no more than anyone else, and this certainly is not the first time, nor the worst manner in which I have used them.

    To fix you "cop" story, it is much more like a cop watching me and 49 other motorists drive by him at 30mph over the limit everyday, and then, the day after he and I disagree at a coffee shop over the meaning of "slip", among other things, he pulls me over and gives me a ticket for 10mph over the limit.

    I don't know if your speaking in general, or about me. But in case it is about me, particularly, well, if any of my posts are not understood, it's not because of poor grammar, or a few mispelled words, of that I am certain.
    For instance, I'd been spelling grammar as "grammer". Improper, yes, but you still get the point, and now that somebody actually TOLD me I was spelling it wrong, instead of just saying "your grammar sucks", I'll spell it right for the rest of my life.

    P.S. everybody has been spelling vendetta wrong, according to my spell checker.
     
  21. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Let's just check on that, shall we?

    Doesn't look like your infraction was for bypassing the swear filter, so your use of quotes there is erroneous. It looks like it was for "Abusive comments", only part of which was bypassing the swear filter.

    Have a quick memory check there. It wasn't my signature, rather GeorgeMorley's, and the original post was made a year ago.

    That's terrific. SO you still think you deserved the infraction, but think other people deserve them too because you're no worse than them?

    daan's point, made quite some time ago now, was how do you know the other people haven't received an infraction for it?

    And the simple answer is that you don't. Since other people have received an infraction for it - you're the only one who's kicked up such a fuss about receiving an infraction you've already argued that you deserve. But of course this doesn't fit into your preconceived notion that Scaff has it in for you (which is nonsensical anyway, as he could just up and ban you) so you have completely ignored this possibility.


    Were you over the limit? Yes.
    Do you deserve the ticket? Yes.
    Did the cop ticket lots of other people that day without you seeing it? Yes.

    Not seeing an awful lot of point from you there - except that you seem to want to bring everybody else in with you. That's not very charitable is it? Especially considering the fact that other people have already been brought to task on this - but you just don't know about it. Like when you were wrong for assuming live4speed hadn't been told about his use of the language.


    Yes. We've also been using quotes around it, to signify that it was a quote and not anything originating from us. How "rediculas", eh?


    Anyway, I've just landed on the snake at 99 and it has brought me all the way back to the very first detail.

    If you disagree with any moderating decision made by any moderator, then bring it up with the Admin staff, who are Duke, Der Alta and Jordan. This applies to anybody.

    We do occasionally make a bad judgement call, and the system allows for that to be reversed or amended by the Admin - the possibility is always there. We have a few threads in our moderator forum, discussing decisions, good practice and visions for the site. Then again, there is a reason why the Admin have selected the moderators they have selected, and the number of decisions reversed since the infraction system arrived you can count on the fingers of one knee.
     
  22. Duke

    Duke Staff Emeritus

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    I will come back to this thread shortly, but right now I'm tied up. However, I find it important to point something out:

    As Famine mentions above, any problems with the moderating staff should be brought to the administrator's or owner's attention. Since leadslead#2 has so far declined to do so - despite repeated urgings from Scaff - Scaff himself has been requesting our continuous review of the situation as it develops. We've been following it closely, and I personally agree with the analysis as Famine has described it throughout this thread.
     
  23. Kent

    Kent Staff Emeritus

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    After looking over the past in this thread the one thing to stand out was the horrible Famine quote. :rolleyes:

    It sucks to be the guy everyone wants to quote sometimes doesn't it?
    (not that I would know)

    None the less, it sucks even more when you post tons and tons of stuff only to have it come back down the road when you've become a mod. :ouch:
    Not to worry though, all is good.

    Regarding the true topic...
    Spelling and Grammar here are more an issue of effort than anything else. There is no way everyone here could nail-down the english language and make no mistakes.

    However, leadsled,
    I think you're on dangerous ground here.
    You acted like a smart-elic about swearing, the swear filter, and the idea of "****" versus typing out the vulgarity itself and letting the filter cover it.
    To the mods and everyone else here, **** are not meant to hide the meaning, only the word, so don't act like **** are acceptable.

    Also, with the infraction mentioned, I wouldn't have supported much, if any, repercussion for you. However, because of the way you've presented your problem with the site and staff, we (the staff) have no room to work with you.

    Didn't you learn at some point on the GTP that the Opinions forum has nothing to do with your personal problems at the GTP?
    Furthermore, wouldn't it be common sense to assume that trying to bring your issues up with the members of the Opinions forum is half as effective as bringing the issue up with the GTP staff?

    Even more problematic is the fact that bringing up your problems in this way has alienated the staff almost as if you tried to go behind our backs, talk smack, then use your newly rallied Opinion forums power to work your way back into good standing with the staff, site, and population in general.

    Contrary to that, your Opinions forum based campaign against the moderation of your replies has come across as petty, un-intelligent, and without merit.

    I strongly suggest you heed the word of the greater GTP staff (or myself alone) and reduce your use of vulgar language, demeaning comments, and ignorance to moderator involvement.

    You can choose your own fate on the GTP but it will not be by your own rules.
     
    Der Alta, Swift and DuckRacer like this.
  24. kennythebomb

    kennythebomb

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    Personally I have no reason to read through this entire thread, and regardless of personal attacks or abuse of the AUP in other ways... and even negating that posts with rampant use of asterisks replacing swear words tend to be of a lower calibre....

    I can't possibly see how anyone could get offended by four asterisks replacing obvious swear words. It is silly to be offended by a person swearing... unless it is a personal attack to you.
     
  25. dougiemeats

    dougiemeats Premium

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    I haven't read through the entire thread either, but I can respond to your post.

    You are right, it isn't offensive. I don't think anyone was really offended by four asterisks. It's the fact that swearing lowers the quality of a post. I can think of some situations that swearing might be acceptable, but in most situations one can get his or her point across without swearing.

    I'm not against swearing, but one should know when it is okay and when it is not. When you're around friends, why not? When you're typing out a research paper, then obviously not. I'm not saying that posts on the GTP Forums should resemble a 200-level English course essay; but in the same sense, you are asked to provide some reasonable content in your posts.

    Basically: No, it's not offensive, but it's low-quality.
     
  26. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    Also this site is used by young people, some of whom are asked to join only with parents consent, with it being a site for all ages it's improper for it to contain content suitable for people only over a certain age.
     
  27. kennythebomb

    kennythebomb

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    I see what you mean, but I'm not entirely convinced that if I used an expletive in this post, that the quality of my post would be lowered.

    Yes, there are always other words to express what I'm thinking... but sometimes the f-word or something similar is truly the best and clearest way to put it. I like to write just how the words come through in my head... and deviating from that to avoid risking offense (or to keep a perceived level of quality) is simply asinine. As long as my grammar is correct, and my thoughts logically organized; I feel that any post of mine is of the highest quality, regardless of whether or not I happen to use a swear word.
     
  28. Kent

    Kent Staff Emeritus

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    How's this guys...

    As a reason not to swear...

    It's against the rules.
    Repeated offensive can result in a Bann.

    Now, with that said, is it worth it to curse when we (the gtp staff) have clearly said it is against the rules?
    It's also clearly stated in AUP/TOS that vulgarities are not permitted.

    So with that said, I think it's enough.
    Curse- suffer the repercussions.
    Repeat your offense despite warnings- suffer even greater repercussions.

    Simple as that.
    No asterisk, no philosophical debates about post quality or symbolism.
    Just this one simple statement...
    Do not use offensive/ abusive language on the GTP or face the consequences.

    Oh and btw, if you don't have any reason to read through the events of this thread then maybe you don't have any reason to post here either. ;)
    Remember, sometimes the first offense isn't what creates all the trouble. Likewise for leadsled, he's digging a bigger hole than he need to and this thread is part of that (but you wouldn't know that if you just came in, didn't read a thing and decided to post on the offensive-ness of swearing).

    Last thing... No one cares if swearing is offensive to you or not. This isn't about whether or not you are offended by swearing. This is about GTP rules, honoring them, respecting the request of moderators, and responding accordingly. :tup:
     
  29. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Jordan's thoughts on the matter are however quite clear in my opinion.




    Regards

    Scaff
     
  30. kennythebomb

    kennythebomb

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    I understand that... but until I receive official warnings from GTP staff I will continue to post how I have. I don't typically use swear words (or asterisks to replace them), but when I feel they are necessary I certainly don't think twice.

    "Cursing does nothing to promote a positive atmosphere anywhere it is used, especially not an online forum."

    Well I obviously disagree, but I will leave that alone.