Tank car DS3 bug?

[DrkPhnyx]

I remember hearing about a bug with the 2X that affected input from a DS3, and after a patch it was much more drivable.

Tonight I decided to play with the Tank Car and see if I could learn it a bit, drive around it's deficiencies, and then I found something odd. At speed, you command full lock, and you get only a little bit. At first I thought it just didn't have much steering lock to give. But when I slowed down, I noticed it gave me a lot more, at the same amount of DS3 stick input. And, it seems that a counter steer also gives more than normal steering at speed.

Is this the same for wheel users? Is there a way around this? Is there a reason for it's implementation?

 

[Streeto]

That's called; Physics.

Cars are generally harder to turn the faster they're travelling...

Air resistance and all that juicy stuff.

 

[JoaoSilva]

Have you ever driven a car in real life? ...

 

[DrkPhnyx]

That's called; Physics.

Cars are generally harder to turn the faster they're travelling...

Air resistance and all that juicy stuff.

Totally missing the question. The wheel in the car does not turn as far at speed as it does while slow.

Gamers with their wonder-woman view (bumper cam) don't see this, so that must be where all the smug ignorance is coming from here (snarky comments, totally missing the point, and lots of likes for it all).

 

[DolHaus]

I remember hearing about a bug with the 2X that affected input from a DS3, and after a patch it was much more drivable.

Tonight I decided to play with the Tank Car and see if I could learn it a bit, drive around it's deficiencies, and then I found something odd. At speed, you command full lock, and you get only a little bit. At first I thought it just didn't have much steering lock to give. But when I slowed down, I noticed it gave me a lot more, at the same amount of DS3 stick input. And, it seems that a counter steer also gives more than normal steering at speed.

Is this the same for wheel users? Is there a way around this? Is there a reason for it's implementation?

When using a controller in any racing game a system is implemented that dictates how much steering angle you get in relation to speed. At low speed when you push the analogue stick all the way to the left you get almost full wheel lock whereas at high speed you will only get a few degrees at the wheels for the same amount of controller input. Otherwise it would make cars need an exceptional amount of physical control to make steering inputs at anything but low speed.

This is common to virtually all racing games, you can only have as much wheel angle as is physically possible at a given speed, more wheel angle would result in slipping from the front wheels rather than turning. When using a wheel on the other hand you have the full range of motion at all times so you can apply full lock at any speed should you wish to

 

[CinnamonOD]

Totally missing the question. The wheel in the car does not turn as far at speed as it does while slow.

Gamers with their wonder-woman view (bumper cam) don't see this, so that must be where all the smug ignorance is coming from here (snarky comments, totally missing the point, and lots of likes for it all).

Read the post above yours

Have you ever driven a car in real life? ...

____

The wheels can only be turned up to some angle at certain speeds, if you try to increase that angle, the wheels will be doing anything but getting grip.

 

[JoaoSilva]

Gamers with their wonder-woman view (bumper cam) don't see this, so that must be where all the smug ignorance is coming from here (snarky comments, totally missing the point, and lots of likes for it all).

I totally get what you meant , the wheel in the car itself will move faster if the car is going slower and the wheel will move slower if the car is going faster because there's more air resistance so it's harder to turn , and you can't turn the wheel as much .

I also drive in cockpit mode with the HUD off and whatnot .

And smug ignorance? you're the one that doesn't know how steering a car works.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

I totally get what you meant , the wheel in the car itself will move faster if the car is going slower and the wheel will move slower if the car is going faster because there's more air resistance so it's harder to turn , and you can't turn the wheel as much .

I also drive in cockpit mode with the HUD off and whatnot .

And smug ignorance? you're the one that doesn't know how steering a car works.

You people are out in full force today. You didn't know what I said/meant, and now are trying to back-peddle. And you apparently don't know how steering a car works. I can turn the wheel as much as I want at any speed, but it will snap me into another vehicle or obstacle, or induce a spin, or plow (depending on circumstances) if over done at too high a speed. But... I could do it. If it were a sim and not real life, might even try it just for kicks.

There was an issue with the 2X's steering input with the DS3 sticks. This seems very much like the same thing. You're really reaching.

In fact, you COULD just, you know, NOT post if you have no valid response. You chose to reply JUST to be rude. Says a lot about you.

 

[squadops]

Have you made sure your driver aids are off? ASM might not be your friend in this car. You should be able to create 'push' understeer I would think, if the game compensated to the point of no front wheel sliding at all, I'll eat my hat.

Try setting the controller sen to 7.

 

[JoaoSilva]

You people are out in full force today. You didn't know what I said/meant, and now are trying to back-peddle. And you apparently don't know how steering a car works. I can turn the wheel as much as I want at any speed, but it will snap me into another vehicle or obstacle, or induce a spin, or plow (depending on circumstances) if over done at too high a speed. But... I could do it. If it were a sim and not real life, might even try it just for kicks.

There was an issue with the 2X's steering input with the DS3 sticks. This seems very much like the same thing. You're really reaching.

In fact, you COULD just, you know, NOT post if you have no valid response. You chose to reply JUST to be rude. Says a lot about you.

Ok , i admit i was kinda rude but you didn't help . I didn't insult you but whatever.

Going back to the issue you had , it has always been like than in GT5 and GT6 , the faster you go the less you can steer the wheel . In GT6 for example i remember i was going at 420-ish KPH with a Veyon , and when i tried to turn , the wheel barely moved and the car kept going on a straight line.

And this was what i was trying to say , BUT i don't know if that is the problem you have.

 

[DaBomm4]

@DrkPhnyx, does this only happen on select cars at high speed or all cars at high speed?

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I'm sure there used to be a maximum steering angle option in past Gran Turismo games, one was also hidden in GT5's code. It's silly that we can't change it, there are instances where an understeering car on a banked curve (Cape Ring loop, Indy Oval, High Speed Ring etc) can corner at a higher speed because a wheel user is able to crank the front wheels, whereas a controller user is not and ends up going wide if they try the same thing at the same speed.

 

[CinnamonOD]

The thing has a 64:36 F:R weight ratio, how can you not expect it to understeer?


EDIT: Just gave it go at RBR Short, straight from the dealer and no aids, in a DS3, and managed a 1:05.432 in a couple of laps

There's no strange behavior.

Remember, the car weighs 3500 kg, and has a weight distribution of 64:36, that means that ~2240kg are distributed to the front tires and axis.

There is no bug.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

Ok , i admit i was kinda rude but you didn't help . I didn't insult you but whatever.

Riiight.

Going back to the issue you had , it has always been like than in GT5 and GT6 , the faster you go the less you can steer the wheel . In GT6 for example i remember i was going at 420-ish KPH with a Veyon , and when i tried to turn , the wheel barely moved and the car kept going on a straight line.

And this was what i was trying to say , BUT i don't know if that is the problem you have.

Don't have the Veyron. That might be what causes so many people to say it won't turn, even when it clearly is quick around a track (as demonstrated by The Stig). And I can see PD implementing some sort of filtration on stick input because it's throw is so short, but, it seems extreme on this vehicle. And should also be an option to enable/disable/change, without spending a grand on hardware. (high end wheel, seat, mount, etc)

Every other car in my GT garage will turn more tightly, with more virtual (interior) wheel throw at higher speeds around Spa than the Tank Car did. Every other one will either push, or snap oversteer, but with push, the fronts actually turn red on the indicator. With this, I wasn't getting enough lock to do that, so I just drove off the track, rather than plowed off.

@Lewis_Hamilton_ Nailed it.

@DrkPhnyx, does this only happen on select cars at high speed or all cars at high speed?

Only noticed it in that one. It may well be present on many others, but this one is extreme. It doesn't understeer - it just doesn't steer. (at all really)

 

[DaBomm4]

When using a controller in any racing game a system is implemented that dictates how much steering angle you get in relation to speed

@Lewis_Hamilton_ Nailed it.

Both @DolHaus and @Lewis_Hamilton_ are talking about the program built in the game that restrict steering angle at higher speeds, this program from how I understand it, tries to keep your steering inputs safer than what you want to do with a DS3 controller. Everyone that was referring to the game has stated the same thing in different ways, including @Streeto and @JoaoSilva. I have not driven the Tank Car but I understand what you are talking about. If you don't like a response, you could also ignore it or try to be a little bit more polite.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm sure there used to be a maximum steering angle option in past Gran Turismo games, one was also hidden in GT5's code. It's silly that we can't change it, there are instances where an understeering car on a banked curve (Cape Ring loop, Indy Oval, High Speed Ring etc) can corner at a higher speed because a wheel user is able to crank the front wheels, whereas a controller user is not and ends up going wide if they try the same thing at the same speed.

In GT5, all cars default max steering angle lock at 40 degrees, I think GT6 still use the same value for all cars I used real life angle on some of my GT5 hybrids replica, they drove much better, 600HP 86GT twin turbo on comfort soft was actually fun to drive and quick at Madrid.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

Both @DolHaus and @Lewis_Hamilton_ are talking about the program built in the game that restrict steering angle at higher speeds, this program from how I understand it, tries to keep your steering inputs safer than what you want to do with a DS3 controller. Everyone that was referring to the game has stated the same thing in different ways, including @Streeto and @JoaoSilva. I have not driven the Tank Car but I understand what you are talking about. If you don't like a response, you could also ignore it or try to be a little bit more polite.

Only DolHaus and LH were talking about that. The others were just being snarky.

Could I just ignore insulting behavior? I guess - just like they could refrain from making the snarky comments with nothing to offer. Goes both ways, don't try to put it all on one.

 

[DaBomm4]

Only DolHaus and LH were talking about that. The others were just being snarky.

Could I just ignore insulting behavior? I guess - just like they could refrain from making the snarky comments with nothing to offer. Goes both ways, don't try to put it all on one.

There also is a report button and an ignore button if you have an issue with a comment or person. @JoaoSilva's first post was an honest question, you took it as an insult.

 

[JoaoSilva]

There also is a report button and an ignore button if you have an issue with a comment or person. @JoaoSilva's first post was an honest question, you took it as an insult.

@DrkPhnyx

 

[MMX]

When using a controller in any racing game a system is implemented that dictates how much steering angle you get in relation to speed. At low speed when you push the analogue stick all the way to the left you get almost full wheel lock whereas at high speed you will only get a few degrees at the wheels for the same amount of controller input. Otherwise it would make cars need an exceptional amount of physical control to make steering inputs at anything but low speed.

This is common to virtually all racing games, you can only have as much wheel angle as is physically possible at a given speed, more wheel angle would result in slipping from the front wheels rather than turning. When using a wheel on the other hand you have the full range of motion at all times so you can apply full lock at any speed should you wish to

This is it right here.^
I'm a controller user among many friends that have wheels, and have seen many times how they can have way more steering input, than I can. To the point of seeing the wheels turned more than they are getting out of them, and smoking. I'm not talking about driving into a turn too hot. A wheel user can do this at will, it's not even possible for a controller user. The only time it's been a real problem for me, is with cars that are naturally understeery. The game tries to keep traction by reducing steering input, whether you want it to or not.

Edit: Just remembered. I had a wheel for about 3-4 months, and was instantly faster with it in FF cars, than I ever was with a controller. Didn't think about it at the time, but I'm betting game controlled steering inputs for controllers is the reason.

 

[Streeto]

Ok, we weren't attacking you or anything, just explaining what happens to your steering at high speed.

It's not a bug, it's physics. Don't expect to go full lock at speed in a car like that, it's common sense.

Even with stupidly grippy RS tires, I can't imagine you going full lock beyond say 60mph in that car.

Also, you're in a tank car. As ridiculous as that car is, I'm surprised it turns at all.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

Ok, we weren't attacking you or anything, just explaining what happens to your steering at high speed.

It's not a bug, it's physics. Don't expect to go full lock at speed in a car like that, it's common sense.

Even with stupidly grippy RS tires, I can't imagine you going full lock beyond say 60mph in that car.

Also, you're in a tank car. As ridiculous as that car is, I'm surprised it turns at all.

It's not physics. You still don't get it. (which makes citing common sense humorous, but n/m) Just walk away, kthx.

 

[Streeto]

It is physics, you clearly don't get it.

>Asks for help
>Dismisses every explanation

Troll or nah?

 

[Vegard]

It is physics, you clearly don't get it.

The way I read this, he's noticing that the DS3 has a built in "speed sensitive steering angle restrictor", and he is correct.

He's not talking about understeer as such.

I'm sure there used to be a maximum steering angle option in past Gran Turismo games

GT5P had adjustable steering angle.

The wheels can only be turned up to some angle at certain speeds, if you try to increase that angle, the wheels will be doing anything but getting grip.

But they will still turn to the angle that the steering wheel dictates, even if they are understeering (IRL). In Gran Turismo this is impossible with a DS3.

 

[Streeto]

Yes, and I'm saying it's just how physics is.

I guess the easiest way to implement that was just how you explained it "speed sensitive steering angle restrictor".

It's not wrong, it's obviously harder to turn at speed as everybody knows.

I fail to see what he's complaining about, after we've explained it to him a million times now.

 

[squadops]

Yet it doesn't effect wheel inputs?

 

[Streeto]

Are you saying a wheel can go full lock at any speed?

In which case, the wheel is broken not the DS3.

 

[Vegard]

In which case, the wheel is broken not the DS3.

How so?

Hypothetical scenario: If I were driving a car at 100 mph IRL, what would physically keep me from applying full steering angle?

 

[squadops]

Na, I was just asking a question. As the OP points out, there was a recent VGT car that had that exact scenario going on and PD patched or hot fixed or ninja'd it, or something. So we all know what we have since GT5P, something jenky in the difference of wheel and controller inputs.

In GT5 iirc it was linear vs. non linear etc...

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Yes, and I'm saying it's just how physics is.

I guess the easiest way to implement that was just how you explained it "speed sensitive steering angle restrictor".

It's not wrong, it's obviously harder to turn at speed as everybody knows.

I fail to see what he's complaining about, after we've explained it to him a million times now.

What you are saying is correct, but that is not the problem the OP is talking about. Even in a kart, you can veer towards the outside of a corner because with a controller, your driver will only turn the wheel a few degrees when in reality or with a wheel in the same scenario, you could easily turn the steering wheel further to induce some oversteer and make the corner flat out.

Some cars in spec racing are awful for this problem, the Merc and Lexus racing cars in the online recommended garage list are notable. Try having a spec race with these around Indy Oval and watch the controller users always heading for the outside wall, while wheel users have little problem.

It's only with understeering cars on certain types of corners. With my own cars I overcome the problem by setting ridiculous rear toe numbers, low rear ride height, low rear downforce and so on, so that the car wants to rotate a lot at all times.