Tank car DS3 bug?

[ryzno]

More smug ignorance. Thanks. Ass.
...
In fact, you COULD just, you know, NOT post if you have no valid response. You chose to reply JUST to be rude. Says a lot about you.

You should check your attitude bro...

Your question has been answered a few times.

I'll enlighten you a little more, with my knowledge.
First off in real life it is common for the wheels to receive less power steering assistance at higher speeds.
Try turning the wheel a 1/4 turn at low speed and then try it on the highway(don't try it on the highway you will create a accident.) Reason being at higher speeds it takes less effort to turn the wheels. Meaning if you yanked the wheel like you can easily do with a DS3, you would either go slide straight or start to spin.

If you have a DS3 the game will compensate and not turn the wheels to full lock. Its very common for kids/new people to just mash the stick. Which will not give you optimal steering, so just like GT's other aid's that are not always wanted and other games, its there. It's a game. Not a simulator, regardless of what anyone says.

Have you tried taking the turn slower or adjusting the steering sensitivity?

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

adjusting the steering sensitivity?

This has no effect on the degree of steering angle, only how quickly you reach the game's steering angle limit.

At least I think so

 

[ryzno]

This has no effect on the degree of steering angle, only how quickly you reach the game's steering angle limit.

At least I think so

You're right. If he is the kind that just bashes the stick to the left(not saying OP is), instead of being smooth with it, slowing the reaction of the input down could help with him not being able to turn in.

Just curious did he mention the track? Cause there a few, that the tank car can not do a 180 on the track at very low speed, even with a wheel at full lock. Just like a large truck it takes more room to turn.

 

[squadops]

Just curious did he mention the track? Cause there a few, that the tank car can not do a 180 on the track at very low speed, even with a wheel at full lock. Just like a large truck it takes more room to turn.

You just need to be creative, check out around the 4 min mark

 

[nowcontrol]

Hypothetical scenario: If I were driving a car at 100 mph IRL, what would physically keep me from applying full steering angle?

Puny human strength maybe.... I'd imagine it takes a fair amount of force applied quickly to achieve such a thing, but you would only really need half of the full steering angle to make the car turn, roll, and kill you.... so it is impossible to apply full lock at that speed because death by crushed metal will always come first.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

It is physics, you clearly don't get it.

>Asks for help
>Dismisses every explanation

Troll or nah?

Physics do not prevent me from inputing steering angle. The GAME is. WTF is your damn problem anyway? Leave it alone. The only trolling here is you. Go spread your arrogance (and not reading fully) elsewhere.

 

[AbsoluteBarstool]

Physics do not prevent me from inputing steering angle. The GAME is. WTF is your damn problem anyway? Leave it alone. The only trolling here is you. Go spread your arrogance (and not reading fully) elsewhere.

Well it'd help if you compared the car to others to help explain your issue instead of just saying that you can't turn the wheel at speed and expecting help.

You can't fix an issue that you don't know of.

 

[Pseudopod]

Puny human strength maybe.... I'd imagine it takes a fair amount of force applied quickly to achieve such a thing, but you would only really need half of the full steering angle to make the car turn, roll, and kill you.... so it is impossible to apply full lock at that speed because death by crushed metal will always come first.

I was gonna suggest something like this. You're going at a high speed, and the wheels are being pressed to the asphalt by two tons of weight on top of them. As you try to turn the wheels, the forward motion and traction between the wheel and surface will try to force the wheels back into the straight forwards position again.

Of course, cars have power steering to help you achieve this, but this system doesn't infinite power either. I imagine that with a 3 ton car, it would put a lot of stress on the power steering as well.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

You should check your attitude bro...

Your question has been answered a few times.

I'll enlighten you a little more, with my knowledge.
First off in real life it is common for the wheels to receive less power steering assistance at higher speeds.
Try turning the wheel a 1/4 turn at low speed and then try it on the highway(don't try it on the highway you will create a accident.) Reason being at higher speeds it takes less effort to turn the wheels. Meaning if you yanked the wheel like you can easily do with a DS3, you would either go slide straight or start to spin.

If you have a DS3 the game will compensate and not turn the wheels to full lock. Its very common for kids/new people to just mash the stick. Which will not give you optimal steering, so just like GT's other aid's that are not always wanted and other games, its there. It's a game. Not a simulator, regardless of what anyone says.

Have you tried taking the turn slower or adjusting the steering sensitivity?

Responding to smugly ignorant arrogance and snarky insults is not an attitude problem "bro". You're like a blind ref that can't see the instigation, only a reaction. And if admonishments are all you can offer, you're just like the others. Isn't there something better you could be doing with your time? Other threads to wallow in maybe?

For all your words you've merely demonstrated you haven't grasped the concept, and needn't have replied, let alone in the manner which you did.

While SOME modern cars have speed sensitive steering that actually adjusts the ratio on the fly, and others use drive-by-wire for control, most, especially older cars, use a mechanical linkage (with or without hydraulic boost). Hydraulic boost is just that, assistance, added power, nothing more. It's quite different from hydraulic steering (seen on military vehicles and monster trucks). The wheel in one's hand is still mechanically linked to the steering assembly. Even with the engine off (or belt broken), the wheels can still be angled. So no, speed has nothing to do with the issue in the since of anything real world based. It's not, as some have suggested, understeer, nor is it gyroscopic forces, and certainly not aerodynamic forces under 100mph (that's ludicrous). @Lewis_Hamilton_ and @Ridox2JZGTE got to the heart of the matter. That's it. Done. Over. The game is limiting the input from controllers (but not from wheels). The amount it does this to the tank car is excessive and must be a bug, much like the 2x. Except that unlike the 2X, far fewer people will ever bother using the tank car, or care.

Well it'd help if you compared the car to others to help explain your issue instead of just saying that you can't turn the wheel at speed and expecting help.

You can't fix an issue that you don't know of.

See, it was a question, not a call for help. Nor "my" issue, or any of the various things it's been called. Few other cars respond this way.

 

[snarls200]

Also the fact the car is 3500kg does not help

 

[Wide Boy]

Responding to smugly ignorant arrogance and snarky insults is not an attitude problem "bro". You're like a blind ref that can't see the instigation, only a reaction. And if admonishments are all you can offer, you're just like the others. Isn't there something better you could be doing with your time? Other threads to wallow in maybe?

For all your words you've merely demonstrated you haven't grasped the concept, and needn't have replied, let alone in the manner which you did.

While SOME modern cars have speed sensitive steering that actually adjusts the ratio on the fly, and others use drive-by-wire for control, most, especially older cars, use a mechanical linkage (with or without hydraulic boost). Hydraulic boost is just that, assistance, added power, nothing more. It's quite different from hydraulic steering (seen on military vehicles and monster trucks). The wheel in one's hand is still mechanically linked to the steering assembly. Even with the engine off (or belt broken), the wheels can still be angled. So no, speed has nothing to do with the issue in the since of anything real world based. It's not, as some have suggested, understeer, nor is it gyroscopic forces, and certainly not aerodynamic forces under 100mph (that's ludicrous). @Lewis_Hamilton_ and @Ridox2JZGTE got to the heart of the matter. That's it. Done. Over. The game is limiting the input from controllers (but not from wheels). The amount it does this to the tank car is excessive and must be a bug, much like the 2x. Except that unlike the 2X, far fewer people will ever bother using the tank car, or care.




See, it was a question, not a call for help. Nor "my" issue, or any of the various things it's been called. Few other cars respond this way.

You have answered the reason yourself, as you mention most modern cars have speed sensitive steering. Older cars the assistance if any is just to do with the weight of input required to turn the wheel.

The reason for both above is sensitivity, if the speed you can turn the wheel at low speed gives nice feedback it would be way to sensitive at high speed. Some real life power assisted cars I have driven suffer from this, they are overpowered at high speed so the steering is to sensitive making it hard to hold a nice line & giving very little feedback.

In game if your using a wheel you have a wide range of movement so the game can give you direct control.

If you are using a controller you have a narrow range of input therefore.
At low speed the range covers from lock to lock.
As speed increases the controller becomes less sensitive so you require more movement to turn the wheels the same amount.
As the controller still has the same restricted range of movement but now requires more movement to turn the wheels they now obviously cant be turned as far.

Its that simple the game is trying to mimic real life & stop you weaving all over the place in a high speed bend by adjusting the sensitivity.
Do you think you could drive a car in anything but an erratic manor in real life using a little joystick if you were not given assistance in this way.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

You have answered the reason yourself, as you mention most modern cars have speed sensitive steering. Older cars the assistance if any is just to do with the weight of input required to turn the wheel.

The reason for both above is sensitivity, if the speed you can turn the wheel at low speed gives nice feedback it would be way to sensitive at high speed. Some real life power assisted cars I have driven suffer from this, they are overpowered at high speed so the steering is to sensitive making it hard to hold a nice line & giving very little feedback.

In game if your using a wheel you have a wide range of movement so the game can give you direct control.

If you are using a controller you have a narrow range of input therefore.
At low speed the range covers from lock to lock.
As speed increases the controller becomes less sensitive so you require more movement to turn the wheels the same amount.
As the controller still has the same restricted range of movement but now requires more movement to turn the wheels they now obviously cant be turned as far.

Its that simple the game is trying to mimic real life & stop you weaving all over the place in a high speed bend by adjusting the sensitivity.
Do you think you could drive a car in anything but an erratic manor in real life using a little joystick if you were not given assistance in this way.

Thanks for tripping over yourself to miss much of what has been said and repeat useless stuff that doesn't really pertain to anything. (re: difference of one vs another, stick vs wheel, etc)

Really people. Best to let this one die. There is something wrong with THAT ONE vehicle compared to others (though others suffer a problem too). Sorted. The long 'explainations' all miss key elements and are just people trying to get their 2 cents in for some odd reason.

 

[ryzno]

If you don't want people's opinions why post?

 

[Wide Boy]

Really people. Best to let this one die. There is something wrong with THAT ONE vehicle compared to others (though others suffer a problem too).

As said above stop being a troll you don't want an answer or cant comprehend it.
You are correct above it applies to all cars not just the tank car.
So lets lock the post.

 

[R.S]

Yeah, no, it's not about physics or being harder to turn or whatever, it's about making the game playable with a controller.

Basically it's like ABS for steering. The sensitivity is adjusted to achieve the maximum steering before understeer.
Weight, dimensions, suspension, downforce, weight distribution etc all play a part and obviously the tank car will be **** and understeer like a mother****er at any sort of speed.

The limit of wheel angle is adjusted with the speed to whatever the game calculates the vehicle will stop understeering.

The idea is that the tank car can not turn at speed instead it will just understeer and smoke the tires, so the game says ok don't let the controller put this much steering on but let the player apply as much steering the the vehicle will actually maintain grip.
Any more is just wasted and everyone will be frustrated with using a controller because above 20mph you will be understeering everywhere if allowed full lock, as the finesse offered by a controller is not great enough like a steering wheel would be.

 

[Streeto]

The limit of wheel angle is adjusted with the speed to whatever the game calculates the vehicle will stop understeering.

So, by that theory, and it is just a theory, I'd like to remind you that you didn't have a part of making this game; DS3 users will not experience understeer, ever?

I sure as hell suffer from understeer with most cars on DS3, which is usually remedied by careful throttle & tuning.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

As said above stop being a troll you don't want an answer or cant comprehend it.
You are correct above it applies to all cars not just the tank car.
So lets lock the post.

The trolls are coming in with smart assed comments and not understanding what was asked, or what has been discussed. You could just not post ya know. (but something has you compelled)

 

[R.S]

So, by that theory, and it is just a theory, I'd like to remind you that you didn't have a part of making this game

Wow?

DS3 users will not experience understeer, ever?
I sure as hell suffer from understeer with most cars on DS3, which is usually remedied by careful throttle & tuning.

You mean smoking tire understeer? Yeah I experience that too, mainly with red bull type extreme cars when high sensitivity.
But that does not go against the theory (actually it's a standard feature of games that use limited input methods) that sensitivity is adjusted to remove the problem of uncontrollable understeer from controller users.
There is clear need to have non linear steering sensitivity on a ds3 controller.

There's is also no reason why the game had not implemented an sensitivity curve on each car, some cars have more angle some less angle, or even the calculation of understeer tendency may not be accurate (something like how pp is not be-all-end-all)

And that with the tank car its understeering tendencies mean that when at speed you can do almost no steering.

 

[CraigHyphenO]

So, by that theory, and it is just a theory, I'd like to remind you that you didn't have a part of making this game; DS3 users will not experience understeer, ever?

I sure as hell suffer from understeer with most cars on DS3, which is usually remedied by careful throttle & tuning.

Likewise, until I amend the downforce and toe angles from the stock amounts in race cars, and then all is right again.

Regarding the actual question, the fact that this car weighs a lot will have an affect at speed. The Veyron does the same even with the auto-adjusting downforce. Compare this car to say the Rocket and that turns at high speed much better, which is why racing teams at the end of the 1950s came to the conclusion that a racing car is better off being as light as possible as oppose to as heavy as possible. (further reading: the birth of the Silver Arrow and the Lotus 18)

The Tank Car was designed simply to look as tank-like as possible and have a large amount of power to compensate for the fact that it is 3,500kg. It wasn't designed to lap the Nurburgring in under seven minutes. If you can set the car up to nullify the insane understeer then hats off to you, but I very highly doubt that you will succeed.

 

[Streeto]

You mean smoking tire understeer? Yeah I experience that too, mainly with red bull type extreme cars when high sensitivity.

No, I mean just your usual run-of-the-mill understeer, not sure why the tires would be smoking during understeer unless you're in an FF car holding more lock than needed with your foot down.

I experience understeer in most of my cars until I tune it out, FF, FR, even 4WD.

I use -2 sensitivity, and I don't care much for those silly redbull things...

 

[Wide Boy]

The trolls are coming in with smart assed comments and not understanding what was asked, or what has been discussed. You could just not post ya know. (but something has you compelled)

As you say hardly worth a reply & only doing so to confirm R.S. is correct the sensitivity is reduced at higher speed for all cars.
There are other posts about it or you could test this yourself.
The decision to do this is therefore a game one to help give you control of the car at speed due to the fact you have only a few centimetres of movement with a controller rather than the range of a wheel.
Part of the reason they did it was probably to stop excessive understeer as R.S. speculates but we cant know for sure.

The main point is its not a bug its been done on purpose.

So you are trolling rather than testing to confirm what people tell you, hence lock the thread I wont be responding anymore at least.