I'm not trying to say that you could turn ABS off in the other games just stating that it's on.
Ah I see.
I should have wrote it clearer, I was saying that the car is trail braking more effectively with ABS off, until the wheels lock up, so why does the car not handle the same only instead of the car spinning around when the wheels lock, the ABS comes in. That's pretty much the way it used to be.
Not sure I follow you here. It's as if you're asking PD to model a "limited-slip" ABS system which kicks in later? That's not how ABS works. It kicks in when it's supposed to kick in, usually it's based on wheel-speed sensors that immediately detect any aberrant motion (a wheel spinning much slower than the others for instance) and corrects such motion by pulsing the brakes much faster than any human can do. In other words, the ABS system is supposed to prevent brakes from locking up in the first place.
And a lot of cars nowadays are taking this further by using EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution). This takes ABS a step further, actually straightening the car's motion out if it's in the early stages of a slide. I would equate this with GT5's Active Steering, and it does not apply to this discussion.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I've not heard of any real-life cars in which an ABS system kicks in late. I'm not sure what the point would be. I'm probably totally getting your point wrong...
From your description, cars in earlier games rotated more successfully during braking? And you want this back? I've driven many cars from GT1 to GT2 to GT3 to GT4, many of the same make & model car in each game (Mazda RX-7 FC series comes to mind, as does Toyota's MA70 Supra. Here's my experience from game to game
in general.
GT1: many cars have a "slot-car" like feeling in this game. The front-end feels solidly planted, rarely understeering, even if I brake late. Instead, it's usually the rear that gets over-eager. The rear swings out wildly, while the front feels planted. This would be consistent with your finding eight6er.
GT2: First introduction of understeer. Many cars in GT1 which did not understeer hardly at all (on Normal tires or racing tires) now understeer. But there is also still vast amounts of oversteer with certain autos, whether they're FR, MR, or AWD. Many cars trail-brake with success in this game, assuming they don't massively understeer all the time. They trail-brake
without that slot-carish feeling of GT1, where the rear always swings out.
GT3: More understeer than GT2 (in general) but there is still plenty of fun to be had with oversteer & trail-braking.
GT4: The WORST. Understeer is now at its max. Oversteer is just about gone for most cars, unless they are MR or RR. Trail-braking can happen, but it takes a bit of know-how to induce it. But as a whole, most cars in this game will understeer on-entry FIRST before (if) they ever trail brake. Some cars which should trail-brake in this game (when compared to real-life) will not do so, and if they do, it feels half-baked .
When I was a judge for the TCV5 competition (GT4 tuning section here at GTP) there was a section that allowed us judges to compare each car tuned to stock. What's interesting is that a lot of the tuned cars actually trail-braked
less than their stock counterparts!
...but overall, GT4's trail-braking action is the worst, stock or tuned. The only exception is if you equipped a car with racing tires; now all a sudden a very understeery car might become too twisty on-entry. I don't know if it's supposed to be ABS or what have you, but GT4's the worst.
GT5: MY opinion is PD is on the right direction. Oversteer is obviously back, so is trail-braking and other helpful behaviors.
I just spent the last month and a half exploring various cars with ABS on and off...I will agree that in
some cases, GT5 doesn't allow as much freedom with trail-braking as PS1-era games, but I would disagree that there are no rotational aspects during braking in GT5 with ABS on. If you're not finding much steering while braking on-entry in this game, perhaps it's because you're not starting early enough with those brakes. Even with Comfort tires, I'm still noticing trail-braking on entry. :shrugs:
Plus, PS1-era games (GT and GT2) didn't consider tire technology as accurately as GT5 and probably Forza 3 have. This means that these earlier games were based on modeling cars to the best of the PS1's capability of doing so. This doesn't necessarily mean these games are accurate, or even close to accurate.
If thats the case then there isn't any need for a graduation of 1-10 settings.
The brakes won't provide limited lock regaurdless of the setting.
The graduation indicates to me, 10 would be absolutely no lock graduating down to 1 where there would be limited lock but not complete lockup.
This would help induce the trail braking eight6er is looking for.
I don't fully get the 1 to 10 setting deal either. I don't see that much of a difference from 1 to 10. I've been under the assumption that it has more of an effect with wheels than it does with DS3? I've got a DS3 you see.
But again, I've never heard of a limited-slip ABS system which kicks in later. Correct me if I'm wrong using a real-life example, but this is something that doesn't make sense to me.
I think from a driver's standpoint that I would find such a system somewhat confusing, because a computer is making the decision when to allow brake lock-up, and when to stop it. Let's say I'm in a corner...the car is pivoting as brakes are applied, and suddenly it gets into a much tighter angle because a wheel is locking up. THEN the ABS system kicks in, straightening me out as I'm
trying to straighten myself out.
See what I mean? That just seems confusing.
As the saying goes. Nice discussion, by the way. 👍
