TCS OFF- How do you minimize wheelspin?

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S!Lpheed

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I'm simulating tuning my real car using the 96 240sx fastback, getting torque to around 340, but I know the SR will require a lot more hp(i have 400hp and 340tq right now). In any case, I've been driving in GT mode with TCS and ASM all along, now that I've turned it off, the fastback is nearly uncontrollable and always, and I mean unless I let take my foot off the gas and shift up twice, spins out. o_O

And it's not because I want to improve my drifting(i could do that with a lot of practice)I want to improve my grip on the track. If my real car is this unpredictable I'm going to be in a heap of trouble. So far the only solution I found was racing slicks, and still the engine is too quick for the wheels to keep up with. Can I minimize wheelspin by changing the ratios of the gears or something? What methods do you use to minimize wheelspin...or do you flow with it?
 
>_> my pedals aren't sensitve. even if my feet are...so the only way to fix this is buy a more expensive wheel combo?

edit*leaving for the night, will check again in a few hours
 
As long as you don´t just slam the trottle to the floor, you should be able to control wheelspin fairly good. And if nothing else helps, use TCS anyway, but put it to 1 or at the most 2. I´d say 1, that will allow for some spin, but more controllable.
 
To quote Alan Jones' dad, "Always remember, son, safety's in yer right foot".

Throttle control is the key, though fitting an LSD and tightening up the accel ramp will help delay the onset of oversteer but it will induce more understeer, and will make the rear end more snappy when it does slide. Conversely, setting the LSD as loose as possible or running without an LSD, and then softening the rear suspension more than the front, and especially softening the rear anti roll bar, will encourage the car to harmlessly spin only its inside rear wheel when presented with too much torque. This is my preferred GT4 fix for making a snappy car more driveable. All the excess torque then simply exits through the one spinning wheel while the outer wheel simply loses drive, so the car is less inclined to oversteer. Softening the rear suspension will help in all situations, as it will allow more weight to transfer to the rear wheels under acceleration. Lengthening the lower gear ratios (1st, 2nd and maybe 3rd) will also help by reducing the torque multiplier to the wheels.

But the biggest factor in wheelspin is how you use the throttle and you should find this easier in your real car for a number of reasons:
1) Throttle pedals in real cars have a much longer travel than any computer or playstation control I've ever used, making them much easier to modulate.
2) You will be more sensitive to the car's actions because you will receive more feedback through attitude changes and chassis feedback
3) Noone drives on the road with the commitment they do in GT4, otherwise most people on this group would have squashed themselves against the scenery ages ago. So you'll be going rather more slowly everywhere, because you will be more aware of the speed you are travelling and hopefully have some sense of your own mortality as well as that of other people in your vicinity.

The catch is, though, that there are also things that can make road cars difficult to keep pointing in a straight line too, especially modified ones: All suspension and drivetrain changes I've suggested above hold true for real cars. Ergo, if you fit a very stiff and not properly sorted suspension along with your more powerful motor, you are going to find the car has more grip but is more snappy. Also, getting huge turbocharged power from a small engine usually gives turbo lag. Turbo charged cars have a soft and non linear throttle response compared to the average normally aspirated car so it is rather easy to suddenly find 100% more torque arriving at the rear wheels than there was half a second ago, and apparently without any obvious reason. I guess that's the kind of thing that familiarity eventually solves.
The biggest change with road cars, though, is the tyres. If you have progressive tyres you will find the car's responses more predictable. If you have super grippy tyres that suddenly lose much of their grip you will find the car snappy and unpredictable. Wet weather or slippery surfaces are like snappy tyres.
 
- Obviously, throttle control will be your friend.

- Use a manual tranny and keep it in a higher gear, this can be of great help when cornering. Say you would normally take a turn in 2nd gear, try taking it in 3rd and possibly downshift to 2nd after you passed the corner.

- Be conservative with horsepower figures.

- Use softer tires for more grip.
 
The other possibility is too adjust your gear ratios/settings.

If yor car has six gears, set the ratio so that you can only use up to the fifth gear at the end of the straight. this lengthning of the gears will help in reducing wheel spin.

And one other way is lengthning the first, second and third gears seperately.

Lengthning the gears this way will strengthen your touque output, meaning that you will take to the hills much quicker than before.
 
Get a TVR Speed 12. Learn how to drive that without TCS and not spinning the wheels too much. Now go back to your car and all of a sudden you'll have loads of grip.
 
christofire
Get a TVR Speed 12. Learn how to drive that without TCS and not spinning the wheels too much. Now go back to your car and all of a sudden you'll have loads of grip.
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Quite agree, run it on N2's, get used to that and you should have little problem with throttle control.

Either that or any FWD car with over 200bhp is also a good learning tool.

As has been said above, GT's big problem is the speed at which Wide Open Throttle can be reached, you just would not be able to do (or want to do) in a real car.

With a DFP it takes a quite small amount of time to get used to the required level of travel required for good throttle control, with the DS2 you have to use the right thumb stick for good throttle control, unless you have amazing thumb control (a la Famine).


My advise would be (and as others have said) N tyres, a powerful car and a lot of practice.


Regards

Scaff
 
christofire
Get a TVR Speed 12. Learn how to drive that without TCS and not spinning the wheels too much. Now go back to your car and all of a sudden you'll have loads of grip.
Click to expand...

C.O.F. that's quite possibly the most helpful advice yet.

I've been using medium sport and medium racing tires so I never really experimented with grippier tires. I tried lengthening the lower gears and that seems to be working. I still need to try changing the suspension. I want to get the TVR Speed 12 now haha.

But as for throttle control, even though gt4 is much different from real life, I still want to test as many factors as I can. My pedals go to the floor very quickly, it's a logitech nascar wheel if anyone knows about it. There is no throttle control on one so I usually take my feet off of the gas but i'm considering DFP because 900 degrees will be nice and I'm sure the pedals have more travel. I have other options to look at though.

Is there a way to add more torque to a stock turbocharged engine? Or am I screwed? :crazy: The stage 4 lag is insane...slow, WHEEL SPIN, slow, WHEEL SPIN, you can guess for yourself what the rest is like.
 
S!Lpheed
Is there a way to add more torque to a stock turbocharged engine? Or am I screwed? :crazy: The stage 4 lag is insane...slow, WHEEL SPIN, slow, WHEEL SPIN, you can guess for yourself what the rest is like.
Click to expand...


Depending on the car, you may be able to fit a Stage 5 turbo (you find them in the Tuner village) as they seem to have a little less lag than the Stage 4. Its a small difference, but it may be what you need.

Regards

Scaff
 
you'll also have the problem that in GT4 half throttle--(in the game) gives far less power than in real life...to see this try any normal car & try driving at 1/4 throttle...you'll go unbelievably slow...whereas in real life, 1/4 throttle is generally used driving, even at speeds of 60mph, in GT4 you'll likely never get above 40mph...plus you should keep in mind that some cars in GT4 spin their tires way more than they ever would in real life, like any FF car or a Supra, or 240's. don't put to much money on GT4 actually simulating what a real car would do
 
- Throttle control.

- Limited slip differential.

- GT4 is screwing you over with two of its inaccuracies: 1. Wheelspin is too difficult to stop. 2. Countersteer will grab your car and throw it into a spin with cosmic force.
 
I tried what everyone said, Instead of buying the TVR speed 12 I used my Cien with no tcs or asm, comfort tires, and that was fun. I finally got the hang of it, mostly needed to work on my braking.

I bought the original turbine setup for my 240 and set my rear shocks to 3, keeping mostly everything default. I only slighty changed around the gearing by .100 more each from gears 1 to 3. On medium sports, the ride is much better...i know I forgot to buy soft tires.

I wanted to buy a better wheel anyway but I still like this one. It's so easy because it's almost like real driving.

ONE MORE THING I SWEAR, I watched 4th stage ep 8 again. the key to acceleration was having lag and then more power at certain times vs. virtually no lag(peaky turbo). Not sure what you were implying by that helping because the problem was I was TOO fast and not connecting to the road enough. Do you notice initial d cars NEVER wheelspin? they just shoot forward

So bottom line is setting is important but it's YOU who makes or breaks your car and to improve my racing I just have to improve my driving, with lots of practice.
 
LeadSlead#2
you'll also have the problem that in GT4 half throttle--(in the game) gives far less power than in real life...to see this try any normal car & try driving at 1/4 throttle...you'll go unbelievably slow...whereas in real life, 1/4 throttle is generally used driving, even at speeds of 60mph, in GT4 you'll likely never get above 40mph...plus you should keep in mind that some cars in GT4 spin their tires way more than they ever would in real life, like any FF car or a Supra, or 240's. don't put to much money on GT4 actually simulating what a real car would do
Click to expand...

That is so true, GT4 interprets throttle pedal in different way than real cars. in GT4, you always have to floor the pedal to get maximum torque and acceleration, regardless of your car or engine speed. In real life you'll get maximum torque in low rpm's usually under half throttle and wide open throttle is only needed in higher engine speeds. Big trucks with big diesel engines are a fine example of this, feathering the throttle is enough to get maximum acceleration, you're only wasting fuel if you give them full throttle :)
 
You won't be "wasting" fuel if you give it full throttle. The air/fuel mix will still be appropriate for the engine (providing it's setup right :) ), and providing you're not using flatslide carbs the carbs or FI will sort that out for you.

If it's drive-by-wire throttle then planting the pedal will just tell the computer "I want to go fast now please". It will do it's best, but I wouldn't have thought it will put more fuel into the mixture than required. Obviously, there's some limits as to how well the vehicle is set up, but within these tolerances I wouldn't have said the fuel was "wasted".
 
Put a pillow or a bean bag or something like that under the throttle, now it will be harder for you to mash the pedal, and you will get a better at being easy on the throttle.
 

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