Tcs off = wow

  • Thread starter Thread starter dabest2500
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Why do people think that the X / Square are basicly on off switches, they are pressure sensitive, i had great throttle control in GT4 with just the pressure of my thumb on the X button.

Turning ABS off will slow you down, the games braking model is just crap, the cars lockup too easily. I developed nice technique for braking in iRacing, Rfactor and FVA/Netkar only to completely trash it by playing GT5, ABS removes the feeling of the brakes, and without it you just skid around when you touch the brakes. Sure you can be fast without ABS, but you can be faster with it on.

Traction control being off though is great, makes the game much more enjoyable to play, and its faster.
 
dabest2500
When I want oversteer, TCS is already OFF so I can cope with that.
So it sounds wise to use ABS for the AMG Driving Academy then...
I will have time to test ABS 1 and ABS OFF because the only things to do apart from that is grind to level B-Spec and A-Spec up.
I also need to do the Special Events.
What would you recommend for serious racing too?
Things like endurance races and Special Events?
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I didn't use ABS until the Expert level AMG events, but I use the load-cell mod for my G25, and I set the bias to a sensible level for the car - both of which make a huge difference.

The oversteer provided by turning off ABS is completely different to that with no traction control. This is oversteering towards the apex as you slow down, not off it as you speed up again. Great for turn-in at low speeds, or for drifting, as mentioned above.

Try it for yourself and see how you get on. If you can't be consistent, or skid off with all four wheels locked as soon as the pressure's on, either work on remaining cool and consistent or just turn ABS back on. That's why the RA menu is there :)

I don't really do "serious" racing, except the special and seasonal events - but they're hardly racing, they're more like hot-lapping whilst dodging idiots. Incidentally, I use ABS in time trials, where the extra grip in trail-braking (assuming you correctly feather the brake pedal to combat understeer) is vital.

There's no shame in using it or not, I don't think. Not like TCS :p
 
Griffith500
I didn't use ABS until the Expert level AMG events, but I use the load-cell mod for my G25, and I set the bias to a sensible level for the car - both of which make a huge difference.

The oversteer provided by turning off ABS is completely different to that with no traction control. This is oversteering towards the apex as you slow down, not off it as you speed up again. Great for turn-in at low speeds, or for drifting, as mentioned above.

Try it for yourself and see how you get on. If you can't be consistent, or skid off with all four wheels locked as soon as the pressure's on, either work on remaining cool and consistent or just turn ABS back on. That's why the RA menu is there :)

I don't really do "serious" racing, except the special and seasonal events - but they're hardly racing, they're more like hot-lapping whilst dodging idiots. Incidentally, I use ABS in time trials, where the extra grip in trail-braking (assuming you correctly feather the brake pedal to combat understeer) is vital.

There's no shame in using it or not, I don't think. Not like TCS :p
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Just like the Top Gear Challenge Lotus race...
I think I'll keep ABS 1 for now until the physics are fixed :)
 
Learn to left foot brake then, and brake in a straight line, the same thing applies in real life. Engine braking + heavy braking + turn wheel = oversteer. Or step on the clutch when you brake to minimise the effect. You just can't slam on the brakes like with ABS on, takes more finesse. Just like with TC off, you need practise

SuperGT in real life does not use ABS brakes, among other race series, so if you want to be realistic, turn it off
 
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Griffith500
What fix is this you're expecting? I think I did that Lotus "race" without ABS - a good Bacharach or two is all you need :D
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I've read several threads saying that ABS OFF in real life - ABS 1 in GT5.

CoolColJ
Learn to left foot brake then, and brake in a straight line, the same thing applies in real life. Engine braking + heavy braking + turn wheel = oversteer. Or step on the clutch when you brake to minimise the effect. You just can't slam on the brakes like with ABS on, takes more finesse. Just like with TC off, you need practise

SuperGT in real life does not use ABS brakes, among otehr race series, so if yout want to be realistic, turn it off
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I don't have a clutch pedal, I use a Driving Force Pro.
I've never used a clutch in my life, I'm 15, so I only know to left foot brake.
I've learnt tailbraking from GT4.
My wheels lock when braking in a straight line in a FGT.
So braking in a straight line also requires threshold braking?
 
Yes on the last question, all braking in a straight line does is top the car sliding or oversteering upon heavy braking. Although stiffening up the front suspension should help
 
dabest2500
I've read several threads saying that ABS OFF in real life - ABS 1 in GT5.



I don't have a clutch pedal, I use a Driving Force Pro.
I've never used a clutch in my life, I'm 15, so I only know to left foot brake.
I've learnt tailbraking from GT4.
My wheels lock when braking in a straight line in a FGT.
So braking in a straight line also requires threshold braking?
Click to expand...

No idea where people are getting that idea from! ABS off in real life means your tyres can (and probably will) lock up under hard braking. This never happens in GT5 with ABS set to anything but "OFF".

I've read people complain that it's too sensitive. This is because of many things, but mostly because the basic brake bias for all cars is 50/50 (road cars are usually 70+/30-) and the power is too high for most tyres (so you can only use 20-50% of the brake travel.) Setting the "bias" to something like 5/3 or 4/2 or 3/1 etc., rather than the stock 5/5, will do wonders.

The other issue is that the DS3's analog sticks are non-linear, so small adjustments near the extremes of the range are difficult. Kaz whinged about that on Twitter not so long ago - I've hated it since GT3.

I already stated that brakes are (almost) always more powerful than your tyres can handle, so you must always threshold brake if you want to slow down as fast as possible (without ABS). I suppose you know what riding a bicycle is like? Remember how easy it is to lock the rear brake? To get the most out of that, you had to find the threshold of grip - and stay there. That's what threshold braking is about. Some bicycles can lock the front wheel on dry tarmac, which is good practice for a motorbike, where threshold braking is very important (unless you have ABS).
 
dabest2500
I've read several threads saying that ABS OFF in real life - ABS 1 in GT5.



I don't have a clutch pedal, I use a Driving Force Pro.
I've never used a clutch in my life, I'm 15, so I only know to left foot brake.
I've learnt tailbraking from GT4.
My wheels lock when braking in a straight line in a FGT.
So braking in a straight line also requires threshold braking?
Click to expand...

a simple theory on braking is this:

You only want to brake in a straight line for the most, unless the corner layout is made in such a way you need to brake while turning.

You only want to brake full pedal down on a straight for maybe one second, then slowly come off it whilst steering in. That is to maintain proper pression on yr front to have that steering in grip you need. Why having much less brake near the end of your brake zone? Because you don't want understeer.

You can brake without locking the wheels, but you need to find the balance on the car. If the fgt locks it wheels you need less force in the balance. You also need to check wich side locks first, front or rear? Do that in the replay or other views. Again change accordingly in the brake balancer.
 
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The problem with ABS in GT5, though, is that it already kind of does threshold braking (in addition to a form of stability control by controlling braking distribution in real time on all wheels); it's too much efficient compared to real ABS systems which can in some situations lock-up tires for very short periods of time. They are safety devices, not performance-enhancing driving assists for track-use (in most cases, at least).

On the other hand, the TCS in GT5 is too much inefficient compared to most real-life implementations.
 
I use the [] button for braking so for a tough race I'll have ABS1 but for an average race with equal competition I'll take it off but this extends my braking zones as i have to gently depress the button so as not to lock up. The X and [] buttons are sensitive enough to use effectively but I'm sure I'd be a lot faster with a wheel.

As for TC, I don't bother unless I'm really drunk or don't have the focus after a long day at work.
 
As far as ABS goes I think some cars they can work fine without it, others at least for myself I am struggling with them without it even after much fiddling with tuning the setup. One thing I personally finding is turning it off makes some of the handling traits much more clear and gives me a better direction to setup my car. Since sometimes when I do certain maneuver the car is just not behaving what I'd be expecting with it on. As a result setup wise I am just chasing my tail....

The less grippy the tire, the more ABS helps. With slicks and downforce on some of the race cars, even in the wet, you should be able to manage without it just fine. At least with a wheel and pedal setup. With PS3 and GT5 not able to let you set sensitivity of the pedals like PC games, I just need to dial the brake force way down...
 
dabest2500
How do you manage without ABS?
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Put the brake balancer low. I usually put it to zero, actually. Yes, the car willl still stop. Having the brake balancer any higher than 0 or 1 can cause those brakes to lock up much easier.

But you gotta really also pay attention to how you actually use your brakes. You cant' just always use full force braking with ABS off, even with low BB settings.

I usually wind up braking earlier with ABS off, and I'll pump the brakes when needed. Sometimes I'll jab the brakes, and then give just a slight braking action after wards...sometimes I'll do the opposite (slight brakes and then jab). It all depends on the car and situation.

Best brake times, though, are with ABS on "1". I simply can't beat this. But if I'm driving a car that originally did not have ABS ('79 Civic for instance), I'll always have it off in that particular car.
 
I tried one of the Expert A-Spec events with ABS=0 in a Golf gti. That was fun! I set the brake balance to 3/1 but braking and turning is both challenging and rewarding.

Certainly adds a new level of challenge to those "too easy" A-Spec events.
 
I was actually expecting someone to jump in and say that they are faster with ABS on zero. Seems like ABS 1 is the way to go though.
 
If ABS was more realistic, disabling it could have made skilled drivers faster all-around rather than mostly only in specific circumstances.
 
The OP really surprised me being from the UK yet still using TCS in rally event. I could only wish we had rally anywhere close like he does. I just assumed everyone Europe knew to turn it off for dirt, guess I was wrong.

Give the RUF Yellowbird 731HP (everything) an turn TCS off. You'll never make it round the track without going off or smashing wall, even if you do, your lap time will be pathetic compared to any car of similar HP an weight (for that matter, pathetic in general). TCS is necessary for some cars. There is not one setting that works the same for everyone on every track no matter what car. You TCS Cops are funny, and not haha funny. Even with TCS at 3, I drift that RUF all over the place just using the throttle.
If you're using the buttons for brakes with no ABS then you are Mr. finesse. Of the roughly 6 million copies sold, there might be 100 people doing that, maybe a few more but not many. Theres 10 times as many doing that with the joystiqs and even more with wheels. That leaves 5+ million people using ABS, or "anti-lock braking system". They still lock but only long enough for the CPU to realize it and release the brake, at which time, since you are still on the brake, they go back to momentary lock, and repeating.
If you are not an ABS Cop, than 1 is as good as it gets unless you're in the wet or dirt, then 3 to 8 depending on numerous variables. Pick a track in the wet, decide on a braking point, different speeds make all the difference so, you'll have to use the speed as your braking point and a stop watch timer to get a respectable approximation of braking capabilities. Test each setting at least 3 times (that went well), add them together an divide by 3 to get an average. The differences are noticeable, but not huge, and the difference there is, can be the difference between staying on course, or not.

Personally, most vehicles get 1 TCS, many get TCS off, and some need more TCS. It's totally dependent on the car, the drive train, the power, the track, the weather, and how "in the zone" one feels. Yes TCS will save on tire wear, it becomes obvious when you dont use it yet smoke tire, as compared to using it and not smoking tire, one setting will obviously last longer, depending on your skill the difference will vary.
 
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you yanquis! without abs, your braking late style is dead! youl be instead swiching to pressuring your brakes for click twice not in fulle pressure if you do it in real life
 
Ah, I do so agree with the OP. When you switch all the aids off you really do see the car's true personality come out.
 
I've seen an M5 almost drift into a stationary car as it through a left turn because the driver (who had just left the pub) put his foot down too hard. No accident happened because as the BMW was only feet away the TC pulled the thing back in line. It was amazing to see this mechanism in action in real life doing what it was put in the car for but I doubt it'll help that particular driver get round a track faster compared to if he had it off.
 
speedy_2
Have you ever driven a real car with Traction Control? It's like hitting a brick wall in some cars. lol.
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nope, all the quick cars i've driven including mine, no tcs
abs though pisses me off in some cars, i imagine it's similar
 
for me i only run ABS 1 only because there is maybe half an inch of play in my pedal between slight brake, and when the game begins to lock up. with a clutch its also super easy to catch mad drifts, and TCS hurts me when it comes to cornering, especially when the car steps out, there is no saving it. with it off, power through!
 
Those wanting to try ABS off should remember to calibrate their pedals! Fully press down the brake pedal for the game to register the pedal travel.

I usually start with 2:1 brake balance. Cars with strong downforce or slicks are almost impossible to lock up with this setup. Going up from there after figuring out the car.
 
Griffith500
No idea where people are getting that idea from! ABS off in real life means your tyres can (and probably will) lock up under hard braking. This never happens in GT5 with ABS set to anything but "OFF".

I've read people complain that it's too sensitive. This is because of many things, but mostly because the basic brake bias for all cars is 50/50 (road cars are usually 70+/30-) and the power is too high for most tyres (so you can only use 20-50% of the brake travel.) Setting the "bias" to something like 5/3 or 4/2 or 3/1 etc., rather than the stock 5/5, will do wonders.

The other issue is that the DS3's analog sticks are non-linear, so small adjustments near the extremes of the range are difficult. Kaz whinged about that on Twitter not so long ago - I've hated it since GT3.

I already stated that brakes are (almost) always more powerful than your tyres can handle, so you must always threshold brake if you want to slow down as fast as possible (without ABS). I suppose you know what riding a bicycle is like? Remember how easy it is to lock the rear brake? To get the most out of that, you had to find the threshold of grip - and stay there. That's what threshold braking is about. Some bicycles can lock the front wheel on dry tarmac, which is good practice for a motorbike, where threshold braking is very important (unless you have ABS).
Click to expand...

Parnelli Bone
Put the brake balancer low. I usually put it to zero, actually. Yes, the car willl still stop. Having the brake balancer any higher than 0 or 1 can cause those brakes to lock up much easier.

But you gotta really also pay attention to how you actually use your brakes. You cant' just always use full force braking with ABS off, even with low BB settings.

I usually wind up braking earlier with ABS off, and I'll pump the brakes when needed. Sometimes I'll jab the brakes, and then give just a slight braking action after wards...sometimes I'll do the opposite (slight brakes and then jab). It all depends on the car and situation.

Best brake times, though, are with ABS on "1". I simply can't beat this. But if I'm driving a car that originally did not have ABS ('79 Civic for instance), I'll always have it off in that particular car.
Click to expand...

These are some of the reasons why I still use ABS 1.
You need to brake form a further distance.
I'm probably not skilled enough to brake later with ABS OFF, I've just learnt to drive without TCS...

desmosabie
The OP really surprised me being from the UK yet still using TCS in rally event. I could only wish we had rally anywhere close like he does. I just assumed everyone Europe knew to turn it off for dirt, guess I was wrong.

Give the RUF Yellowbird 731HP (everything) an turn TCS off. You'll never make it round the track without going off or smashing wall, even if you do, your lap time will be pathetic compared to any car of similar HP an weight (for that matter, pathetic in general). TCS is necessary for some cars. There is not one setting that works the same for everyone on every track no matter what car. You TCS Nazi's are funny, and not haha funny. Even with TCS at 3, I drift that RUF all over the place just using the throttle.
If you're using the buttons for brakes with no ABS then you are Mr. finesse. Of the roughly 6 million copies sold, there might be 100 people doing that, maybe a few more but not many. Theres 10 times as many doing that with the joystiqs and even more with wheels. That leaves 5+ million people using ABS, or "anti-lock braking system". They still lock but only long enough for the CPU to realize it and release the brake, at which time, since you are still on the brake, they go back to momentary lock, and repeating.
If you are not an ABS Nazi, than 1 is as good as it gets unless you're in the wet or dirt, then 3 to 8 depending on numerous variables. Pick a track in the wet, decide on a braking point, different speeds make all the difference so, you'll have to use the speed as your braking point and a stop watch timer to get a respectable approximation of braking capabilities. Test each setting at least 3 times (that went well), add them together an divide by 3 to get an average. The differences are noticeable, but not huge, and the difference there is, can be the difference between staying on course, or not.

Personally, most vehicles get 1 TCS, many get TCS off, and some need more TCS. It's totally dependent on the car, the drive train, the power, the track, the weather, and how "in the zone" one feels. Yes TCS will save on tire wear, it becomes obvious when you dont use it yet smoke tire, as compared to using it and not smoking tire, one setting will obviously last longer, depending on your skill the difference will vary.
Click to expand...

Although I am from Europe, the main motorsport I watch, is F1, I've also only ever driven a go kart in real life.
Being 15, I'm not allowed to drive a car.
 

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