TCV6 discussion + tentative rules

Rotary Junkie

Rotary Junkie

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Since TCV5 stalled out and was probably a bit limited due to the single-track nature of it and we are now back to not knowing when GT5 will launch, I think it's time for another go.

I'm thinking of a return to the old FWD/RWD/AWD classes, sports-grade tires only. Possibly an "unlimited" class using R3s and unrestricted drivetrain (but a ban on those vehicles which would have an unfair advantage in terms of downforce or grip). Also, no nitrous is allowed.

Judging will be out of 100 points, breakdown of:

50 points: Handling character
20 points: Improvement of performance versus default settings. 1 point for every .1 shaved.
20 points: Relative performance against the other vehicles in class purely in terms of lap time. Fastest car of class gets the full 10, the point difference per place will be decided upon closure of entries.
10 points: Lenience. How far you can alter your lines, braking points, and general driving style without causing large losses in time.

Entrants are allowed (and encouraged) to judge all vehicles in a given class except their own; lowest score of any car is dropped, highest average wins.


Now then, discuss. I'd like to get this open for entries by about 6PM EST Friday night but if there are major alterations you guys want we can take more time to discuss them.
 
we are now back to not knowing when GT5 will launch
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Bloody hell. And I'd managed to convince myself it was coming out this time.

I like the rules mock-up, just a couple of questions: Is the proposed 'unlimited' class restricted to road cars? Should concept cars be allowed in any of the categories? I'll try to do either an entry or a bit of judging, doubt there will be time for both. Also, what about a WPR restriction? And am assuming the regular 'no AIDS' rule applies.
 
1. Yes; if it was originally built for the road it's legal (with a few exceptions).
2. Depends on the concept car. Generally, if it became a reality it's fine (IROC-Z, Mazdaspeed/MPS 6, and so on).
3. None aside from the available grip levels. The way the car feels/acts is more than half the score so...

As for AIDS, they're a no-go.
 
PF
I like the rules mock-up, just a couple of questions: Is the proposed 'unlimited' class restricted to road cars?
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I think it should be, as race cars can have down force stock, but some road cars can't have wings.

They also have really good tuning stock.

Should concept cars be allowed in any of the categories?
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Maybe there should be a Power to Weight ratio for cars as some don't have much power but can become really powerful with upgrades but then there is an advantage because it has a lower Power to Weight ratio.


Maybe a classic car division so we could see some really wacky tunes?

Maybe a lower power limit like 150-200bhp?

Just some of my ideas.
 
PWR was a great equaliser in TCV5, it allowed the times to be very consistent throughout all the classes and focused more on the tune rather than the car.

RJ, as you said a single track limited things, are you going for multiple tracks for judging?? Because the workload from TCV5 was bad enough without having to repeat it for multiple tracks. Think about it, there were nearly 50 tunes all up from everyone.....if you went for multiple tracks, that would mean doing nearly 100 or 150 tests to find your winners which would make it absolute hell for the judges, whoever they may be.

SVX, we did the classic car route back with the Vintage Tuner Challenge a couple of years back.....most of us would go back to previous tunes we'd entered I'd suspect for simplicity.
 
Tracks would be at the discretion of each individual judge...

Which is to say each judge does one round of testing at one track and that's it, but different judges will run the cars at different tracks, thereby putting the cars through somewhat more of a stress-test.

PWR loves to lie as well. Lightweight, low-powered cars will lose out on straights against heavy, high-power cars even if the WPR is the same. I'm looking to see who's crazy enough to do what and who will sacrifice a bit of theoretical speed points for a bigger gain in the character department. Remember, the relative pace scoring will be based on the order in which the cars would place in a theoretical race based on their lowest lap times, so while the guy who has the fastest car will get 15 and we have 15 entries, 2nd will get 14, 3rd will get 13, etc, so the fastest car does not mean it will automatically be the winner.
 
Perhaps we should come up with a few mid-range tracks that the judges could use at their discretion. Having one person judge at La Sarthe and one judge the same car at Autumn Ring will produce skewed results. GVS, El Cap and Lag Sec are three that spring to mind.

Agree with RJ re: the WPR. One of the cars I'm thinking of looks laughable on paper but could produce interesting handling results.
 
I'll be up for this, but won't be able to for a couple weeks.

Add me to the group that doesn't like the WPR idea. I like making speed a part of the judging though.

Personally I'd think it would be more of a challenge to ban the use of downforce.

Another thing I would like to see is some sort of points for "difficulty of base car". Meaning if a tuner starts with a crap car (for example, the Cizeta V16) and makes a decent car out of it. Instead of starting with a car that is already good in stock form and improving it slightly.
 
Improvement of performance over default settings should cover that nicely I think.

As for eliminating downforce... I disagree. Some may see it as a crutch but I'm not one of them. Increases grip, yes. Can be used to "cheaply" change the handling characteristics of a car, yes. Perhaps a rule where "default settings" are changed to include 30/30 downforce if downforce is used at all should be used.
 
I think that entry thread will need some clarification. If I get a chance this weekend could help to rewrite it, there's a lot more info to go in. There's not even a closing date or anything. Can you edit it to say the rules might be changed slightly but will essentially be the same? Some of us may start building immediately, so need early benchmarks.

EDIT:
*Notice: This thread is NOT for discussion, it's purely for posting your entries*
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Put the above in BIG ****ING BOLD TYPE so we don't get the same stupid comments and questions as previous ones.
 
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Agreed that it's a bit vague but my mind is generally on the fritz right now, I'll try to sort it tomorrow morning or thereabouts.
 
Question.....if we're in the class categories, am I correct in saying that it's 50 points of total downforce, not 50 each end and the same with unlimited, 65 points total downforce, not 65 each end?

If so, I might have a couple of cars I can bring into it.
 
I'd be interested as a judge, mostly because it's looking like anybody can judge (rather than a few guys who might possibly flake). I wouldn't enter a tuned car, though, is that okay?
 
It would be very good to see you do some judging for us; I'd somewhat like to see you try to stick something together (just because I want to see what Parnelli-spec is) but if you don't want to you don't have to if you just want to judge.
 
Rotary Junkie
It would be very good to see you do some judging for us; I'd somewhat like to see you try to stick something together (just because I want to see what Parnelli-spec is) but if you don't want to you don't have to if you just want to judge.
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Ha ha, actually you wouldn't want to see me throw something together! I only tune to help me beat the Ai, and it's actually rare that I'll use a full-custom tranny or suspension, unless the race calls for it. But all my tuned cars still have flaws! They're not showpieces.

To get an idea, look up the car in that thread Nomis started a few months ago, the one where he wanted us to try his BMW 2002. I tuned a car for it.
 
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Well, I think my RWD car is close to ready. Still on stock settings for the differential and merely autoset + final drive changes to the trans though, so there's room for improvement. All I'll say is that it's fast and started life as a proper sportscar.
 
I think we should keep it as small as possible, not for the sake of the tuners but for the sake of the judges. Think about what mafs just said, 50 cars is a big work load for anyone. My suggestion for something small would be a RWD only contest with a power cap perhaps.

I also think we should keep prize cars to a minimum as well making things easier for the judges.

And PB it would be great to see you judge again, especially since some people kinda let you down last Tuner Challenge.
 
With the relative lack of interest so far I don't think this is going to be too huge.

Probably 5 cars per class at best so... 20 cars to judge. Not a horrifyingly large number.
 
CamryFan
Perhaps but sometimes these events pull a lot of people out of the woodwork. :)
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I hope that means you, Camry. PM me if you want to collaborate again. Hopefully we could come up with something better than our last rather mediocre effort.
 
That certainly does mean me PF! Mediocre? Pah! Well ok maybe :P


Just in case that STILL isn't clear consider my interest registered.
 
Looking forward towards what you guys cook up.

Meanwhile, I keep testing different stuff for RWD... Which means I've gone from nearly done on one car to another... Too bad it looks awful now that it has suspension settings that let it feel decent.
 
Meh, it'll give me something to do. I'll see what I can tune.
 
As far as I remember, there are no power/weight restrictions, just drivetrain classes. Speed is a factor however.

Thats the thing that bugged me the most about TCV5, it had power restrictions, weight restrictions, AND power-to-weight restrictions.
 

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