technical question about dodge challenger 70

[Rods_Ramone]

Hey there: Could someone point out why is not available turbos in this car. Turbo charge is no available in real life car to? Just curious about it...
Cheers

 

[Rods_Ramone]

Is it a so stupid question or a difficult one? C'mon Mopar fanboys...

 

[uMadson?]

Maybe because it's V8 has a carbruetor? (did I spell it right?) Or maybe because it doesn't feel like a muscle car when a turbo is installed?

 

[Oldhairpin]

You can have a turbo and a carb so that's not the reason.

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[Rods_Ramone]

You can have a turbo and a carb so that's not the reason.

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Well. I was waiting a technical reply on that one. I know that there is kits at mopar with compressors but considering the ratios of hp an revs that is possible using turbocharges its quite probable that some of so cal speed shop has it. I thought also that sokething commom in tunning old challenger models... Anyway...

 

[iamjajo]

I don't know, but I think there would be issues turbo charging this car because of the engine's high compression.

Also, the MOPAR performance engines were kind of lazy. Long stroke, big pistons, moderate revs, and lots of torque. But, turbos seem to work better with higher revving, faster responding engines.

Then, there's 70's technology. Turbos back then would have huge lag between throttle and response. Supercharging didn't have this issue and was common. The only problem with superchargers was exceeding loads at the head and blowing gaskets, ring seals, etc. Gearing down the supercharger to control boost was a common solution to this issue.

 

[ucwepn]

Draw through carby setups are not very efficient, also its possible there wasn't a turbocharged version available to test?

 

[Rods_Ramone]

I don't know, but I think there would be issues turbo charging this car because of the engine's high compression.

Also, the MOPAR performance engines were kind of lazy. Long stroke, big pistons, moderate revs, and lots of torque. But, turbos seem to work better with higher revving, faster responding engines.

Then, there's 70's technology. Turbos back then would have huge lag between throttle and response. Supercharging didn't have this issue and was common. The only problem with superchargers was exceeding loads at the head and blowing gaskets, ring seals, etc. Gearing down the supercharger to control boost was a common solution to this issue.

Totally agree. Seems quite logic for the real life's car. What I can't see logical is why some cars in the game has specific turbo/ compressofs upgrade kit. The chevy ssr for example, has a normal v8 engine with revs higting 9000 or 8000 rpm and there is only a compressor in it. What I stating, concluding, is the fact of the setup of the car should free in option overcharging the car's air supply. But the main subject of this thread was well explained by lamjajo, thank you very much.

 

[Minty]

I don't know, but I think there would be issues turbo charging this car because of the engine's high compression.

Also, the MOPAR performance engines were kind of lazy. Long stroke, big pistons, moderate revs, and lots of torque. But, turbos seem to work better with higher revving, faster responding engines.

Then, there's 70's technology. Turbos back then would have huge lag between throttle and response. Supercharging didn't have this issue and was common. The only problem with superchargers was exceeding loads at the head and blowing gaskets, ring seals, etc. Gearing down the supercharger to control boost was a common solution to this issue.

What would have been a really cool adition to the game, to just make it feel more realistic is make it so you can't install some upgrades until you've installed others.(ex: Buying engine upgrade lvl1 for the challenger before you can install a turbo)

 

[10,500RPM]

Draw through carby setups are not very efficient,

+1 Blow through carbs aren't great either.

 

[freedomweasel]

When you get down to it, it's probably the same reason you can't turbocharge or supercharge a lot of the cars in the game: because PD didn't add the option.

Maybe it's because of some bizarre license agreement, maybe it just because PD thought some cars shouldn't be forced induction, perhaps it's a balancing issue.. who knows?

 

[yellowclone]

I personally think that the game should allow you to turbo any engine, because it is pretty much possible on any car with the right fabrication, tuning, etc... I also think that you should be required to upgrade your engine first though, to lower compression, install proper cam for boost, etc... If we can install racing cat converters and racing ECUs on late 60 - early 70 muscle cars (which didn't have cats or ECUs to begin with), then I think all upgrades, in the game, that can be made in real life, should be available for all cars.

However, since Supercharging is the only boost option for most of the muscle cars in the game, I really wish they would add the proper supercharger whine (whine at idle, like a centrifugal, or scream at WOT like a twin screw). I just tell myself that the racing transmission whine in my 2008 Challenger (in game) is a twin screw Kenne Bell LOL

For example, here is a video of my Dakota RT. This is what a centrifugal supercharged V8 should sound like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n4Bhp3voXo&feature=related

 

[White & Nerdy]

Unlike in GT4, cars in GT5 are available with either turbos or superchargers. Never both as far as I know.

I guess the supercharger just seemed more appropriate for the Challenger, considering the kind of car it is.

 

[Rods_Ramone]

I personally think that the game should allow you to turbo any engine, because it is pretty much possible on any car with the right fabrication, tuning, etc... I also think that you should be required to upgrade your engine first though, to lower compression, install proper cam for boost, etc... If we can install racing cat converters and racing ECUs on late 60 - early 70 muscle cars (which didn't have cats or ECUs to begin with), then I think all upgrades, in the game, that can be made in real life, should be available for all cars.

However, since Supercharging is the only boost option for most of the muscle cars in the game, I really wish they would add the proper supercharger whine (whine at idle, like a centrifugal, or scream at WOT like a twin screw). I just tell myself that the racing transmission whine in my 2008 Challenger (in game) is a twin screw Kenne Bell LOL

For example, here is a video of my Dakota RT. This is what a centrifugal supercharged V8 should sound like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n4Bhp3voXo&feature=related

I do envy you. Quite a lot! Two Dakotas one with a hell of a sound, I suppose was a Challanger in the back... yep, that´s life.
back to the topic, could´nt agree more. There is no such thing like a ECU upgrage for a Karmann Ghia 68. It´s nosense, but in game is possible. And those little stuff bothers me more than other things that people keep talking about all over the forum.
\the possibily of tuning a car, as we can find in gt5 is a very nice feature, as in every series of this game, but if take quite a lot to do a super detailed stuff and do simple things, like propely detail every type of upgrade for which car, will not consumm so much effort and, actually, will get more fidelity to the the real driving simulator thing title. Is something like download the mopar catalog and that but it straight to the game, 🤬 !!! Thank you yellowclone for the opinion and the video. Very nice ride of yours...
Cheers!

 

[Widowmaker00]

Any engine can be built any way in real life.

There are plenty of turbo big blocks.

 

[azzkker]

Unlike in GT4, cars in GT5 are available with either turbos or superchargers. Never both as far as I know.

I guess the supercharger just seemed more appropriate for the Challenger, considering the kind of car it is.

pretty sure the tvr speed 12 can be had with either one if i remember correctly.

 

[Corpsey]

I said it in another thread, but why not the Viper ACR either? Only option in GT5 is turbocharger.

 

[Rods_Ramone]

Pd should take example of some other racing games. I do love race 07, the wtcc game, which ever aspect of the car can preseted, and test in a pre race stage.
There is no sense ( I think ) a three stage option turbo charger ratio, if is possible regulate the intake flow in a maximum pssible ratio ( obs: of course , I quite aware of the three stage turbos is part of all games, but we have to consider the evolution in racing sims ).
A blower option would he nice too, and new instruments of tuned cars. For those that play with no hid aid, the original speedometer is pretty useless when a upgrade 3 engine, compressor, customized 5 gearbox set, in a long straight with a challenger 70.
Cheers all, thank you all for yours opinions, I am quite learning something more. Add, please, in your PSN ( Rods_Ramone ).

Ps: did someone misss the brakes upgrade too? Like me?

 

[Madhouse]

Well in theory you can turbocharge or supercharge any engine you want (or both), the only issue is the hideous amount of work involved. Some engines lend themselves to one or the other though and that could explain the limitations within the game.

I'm no expert on 70's American muscle but they tended to supercharge, the low revving engines wouldn't spool a turbo up as well as you'd like so a belt driven supercharger is a much better idea and would have given a much smoother delivery back in the 70's (no variable vane turbo's back then).

 

[VQuick]

Pd should take example of some other racing games. I do love race 07, the wtcc game, which ever aspect of the car can preseted, and test in a pre race stage.
There is no sense ( I think ) a three stage option turbo charger ratio, if is possible regulate the intake flow in a maximum pssible ratio ( obs: of course , I quite aware of the three stage turbos is part of all games, but we have to consider the evolution in racing sims ).
A blower option would he nice too, and new instruments of tuned cars. For those that play with no hid aid, the original speedometer is pretty useless when a upgrade 3 engine, compressor, customized 5 gearbox set, in a long straight with a challenger 70.
Cheers all, thank you all for yours opinions, I am quite learning something more. Add, please, in your PSN ( Rods_Ramone ).

Ps: did someone misss the brakes upgrade too? Like me?

The brake upgrade is pointless because GT5 doesn't feature brake fade. Bigger brakes would be able to handle more heat during a race. Without the simulation of the heat and fade/wear, the upgrade wouldn't do anything.

In the game's present state, all you need is the brake bias adjustment tool to control the power going to your front or rear brakes.

 

[Yev]

Well in theory you can turbocharge or supercharge any engine you want (or both), the only issue is the hideous amount of work involved. Some engines lend themselves to one or the other though and that could explain the limitations within the game.

I'm no expert on 70's American muscle but they tended to supercharge, the low revving engines wouldn't spool a turbo up as well as you'd like so a belt driven supercharger is a much better idea and would have given a much smoother delivery back in the 70's (no variable vane turbo's back then).

Quoted for truth.
Low-reving carburated engines aren't suitable for turbochargers.

 

[Widowmaker00]

The brake upgrade is pointless because GT5 doesn't feature brake fade. Bigger brakes would be able to handle more heat during a race. Without the simulation of the heat and fade/wear, the upgrade wouldn't do anything.

In the game's present state, all you need is the brake bias adjustment tool to control the power going to your front or rear brakes.

Bigger brakes decrease stopping distance.

 

[freedomweasel]

Bigger brakes decrease stopping distance.

Meh.... maybe, but likely not a noticeable amount in most situations.
Braking is limited by your tires. Big brakes maintain the same stopping distance all day, whereas regular old OEM brakes on your daily driver will stop quickly the first time and then boil the fluid.

Better pad material could be a useful upgrade though, and keeping the adjustable bias/pressure as an upgrade option.

edit: Though, honestly I think I'd prefer to have brake upgrades just improve braking regardless of the real world reasoning, because it's a game and putting go-fast bits on a car is fun. This is also getting off the topic though, probably best to stick to turbo/supercharging.

 

[Rods_Ramone]

Meh.... maybe, but likely not a noticeable amount in most situations.
Braking is limited by your tires. Big brakes maintain the same stopping distance all day, whereas regular old OEM brakes on your daily driver will stop quickly the first time and then boil the fluid.

Better pad material could be a useful upgrade though, and keeping the adjustable bias/pressure as an upgrade option.

edit: Though, honestly I think I'd prefer to have brake upgrades just improve braking regardless of the real world reasoning, because it's a game and putting go-fast bits on a car is fun. This is also getting off the topic though, probably best to stick to turbo/supercharging.

agreed. makes more sense to me than run340 kph with the original 70 style brake system.
edit: sorry to be offtopic too, but those details, which any non expert but petrolhead is awareof, makes the real difference for a simulation and an arcade style race game, in my humble opinion. Again, why put all the mopar parts catalog, or the mugen, or whatever, instead of something nonsense as is...

 

[yellowclone]

Quoted for truth.
Low-reving carburated engines aren't suitable for turbochargers.

Please explain why. With a correct blow-thru carb setup, a low revving motor would run perfectly fine with a turbo. With a proper sized turbo, they can spool up around 2,500 rpms (almost full boost), about the same time most aftermarket heads, cam, and intakes really start making power. A turbo in many cases might even be a better option than a supercharger. Almost any roots/twin screw supercharger made for an older muscle car with a carb (or carbs) will need a hole cut in the hood, which alot of people do not like. Your other supercharger option would then be a centrifugal (Procharger, Vortech, Paxton), but they have a linear boost curve (don't see full boost until redline). So if you want full boost at 3,000 rpms and below, you have a choice of a big hole in your hood, or going the turbo route.

Btw, Cummins Diesels only rev to about 3,000 rpms at redline, and they have a turbo, so the low revs are not a valid point as to why supercharger should be better than turbo on a certain motor. Turbos produce their boost by the amount of heat and pressure the exhaust produces before it enters the turbo, and that is why sizing is so important on turbos.

I know from experience that a low revving car with a lot of power, gearing is where you will make up for the loss of revs. I had a 94 Mustang that made 506 rear wheel hp and 510 rear wheel tq, but only revved to 5800 rpms, and yes you did have to shift fast, but I had a 4.10 rear gear. With a 3.55 rear gear, I could have held each gear longer, and would have been even faster. If I had went with a Turbo, rather than a Procharger, it would have probably made another 30 hp and 50 tq, but still under 5800 rpms, about where the Challenger revs to in GT5.

Point being to my entire novel is, a properly setup carb, and properly sized turbo will perform excellent on any car, no matter how high or low it revs.

 

[Widowmaker00]

Meh.... maybe, but likely not a noticeable amount in most situations.
Braking is limited by your tires. Big brakes maintain the same stopping distance all day, whereas regular old OEM brakes on your daily driver will stop quickly the first time and then boil the fluid.

Better pad material could be a useful upgrade though, and keeping the adjustable bias/pressure as an upgrade option.

It is the reason for many people upgrading brakes on street vehicles. Decreased stopping distance. Bigger rotors, 4-6 piston calipers, make the vehicle stop quicker. They do comparisons in magazines and tv all the time. I have personally installed big brake kits, and afterwards, the stopping distance was significantly reduced. I agree about brake temperature and fade being reduced with larger brakes, especially with drilled/slotted rotors.

http://www.stoptech.com/proven_technology/test_wins.shtml


On topic. Any engine can be built any way. Turbos on old V8's, Superchargers on 3 cylinder Geo Metro engines. It all can be done. GT5 doesn't go in depth enough with engine parts to determine whether or not an engine would be suitable/make power with a forced induction system.

 

[Villain]

Bigger brakes decrease stopping distance.

Absolutely false. 👎

It is also off-topic, so I'll throw this thread at you:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=134570

 

[VQuick]

Bigger brakes decrease stopping distance.

They really don't. In fact, the improvements in stopping distance that you saw after installing a big brake kit is probably due more to the compound of the pads having more bite.

As was stated before, getting more powerful brakes only helps to a degree because you are limited by your tires. If your stock brakes already have the power to lock the wheels and make the car skid, then getting bigger brakes isn't going to help you stop any better. You'll simply lock up the wheels and skid sooner. More grip from the tires is what you need. In GT5, the original brakes can be powerful enough to lock the wheels, even if you are on racing tires. Again, larger brakes would just make you lock up even sooner, which really doesn't help.

Most big brake kits on street cars are overkill. This is not only because of the tire issue, but also because the nature of a street car implies that a driver probably isn't going to brake enough to induce brake fade on their stock setup. Even for track driving, many cars would be fine with a pad upgrade, fresh OE-style rotors and maybe some brake fluid with a higher boiling point.

 

[UnionStrike]

It's odd considering you can add a ecu upgrade to any car, even older carb'd cars but not turbos or superchargers...

 

[Biobunny]

You can have a turbo and a carb so that's not the reason.

Q. Why can't you choose a ring tone for the iPhone from the music stored on it?

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You can do that.