Thank you PD/Sony about too long wait...

[AutoAki]

Without that I propably could have been blind GT-fanboy till the saga ends... but something like year ago I really pissed off and bought second-hand gaming PC with 300€. Best decision ever! GT5P feels now just childish arcade-racer, and what I have seen rumours/videos about GT5, it aint gonna be so much better that I would ever come back. Amazing how few guys in U.S can create so over-realistic simulation in few years, and PD with their huge corporation and resources are totally failing in many areas.

I'm so sad that only few guys from Prologue-online sessions decided to give iRacing a chance when it opened something like year ago... actually that is only thing I miss from GT. You know who you are. Hope you wake up someday, or that GT5 surprises me and turn out to be huge improvement in every sector. (what actually is quite impossible. Now when I have some technical knowledge about gaming components... it just aint gonna happen. GT5's graphical level will always keep it in semi-arcade gategory in physics vice.)

Now when iRacing have lowered their prices with big hand, and many wanted new features have been added to the service lately, I really recommend those GT-fans, who wanted to be Hardcore-simracers and not just casual-gamers, give it a try. iRacing is not 'ready' yet... actually that's the greatest part of the whole idea. It will never be ready. Every 3month comes 'new build', and they add numerous improvements from small details to total new physic-models and features. Right now we are waiting some european tracks, few sexy race-cars, and totally new tyre-physics model arrive in next build, and Dave Kaemmer said it will be something spectacular! PSRTV also is starting to broadcast when 'top-dogs' are having their Pro-series or iRacing their special-events... (tonight actually will be Daytona 500 I think) I just watched some of their beta-test races, and wow! It's just so great to see talented simracers having good battles.

http://www.psrtv.com/

Not to forget Florian Goddards reviews. So classy. Sad that GT never turned out to be something similar...





This is not meant to be troll... please keep out from keyboard if youre feeling anger, this is more like reminder for those, who are frustrated about GT5's delaying and delaying. There is so many sims outside GT's too, and better if you forget about eyecandy. It will still take many months when you receive your GT5. Here is suggestion how you can get that time to go quick. Go to radicalsportscars.com and search their special offer to iRacing.com... it's just 5$ and you will find out are you hardcore-simracer or GT-enthusiast.


So back to the topic. Thank You so much Yamauchi! Without your great GT-series and way to develope games, I propably would never found simracing.

 

[CoolColJ]

Let me quote myself....

I play all the major PC racing sims too and I think the GT5 Time trial compares well, and better the PC games in a few areas physics wise and loses out in some areas. But if you consider where PD has come from and where GT4 was, it's progressive

Physics in each game takes a while to get used to, but once you do they suddenly feel a certain smilarity for a funny reason, when it felt so alien when you first played it

Even in all these PC games they all feel different, so who is to say which is correct? I mean none of them really feel like real life.

I played GTR Evolution a fair bit a few weeks back, it feels pretty arcadey and simple compared to the GT5 Time trial so I'll leave it out. R-Factor has the same basic physics engine as it, and I'm not dedicated enough, hardcore and drawn to it enough to go fiddling under the bonnet like I would when it comes to modding other PC FPS and strategy games I love.
NetKar Pro feels very good, right up there with my best, but the cars are hard to relate too and I haven't played it in a few months so I'll leave it out

Now I have played LFS, iRacing and the GT5 Time Trial long enough to get a feel for each, and a week ago I played all 3 back to back.
LFS feels like the odd one out. iRacing and the GT5 TT feel pretty similar with a few differences


-------

Overall the reason why I like the GT5 Time trial the most, because it's the only game that gets me into the zone, locked into the screen like I did when I was churning out laps for 2-3 hour stints, where I really feel like I'm driving a car, banging up through the gears, the engine screaming, steering the car around. And I have good control and connection to the car.

I get that a bit in LFS, especially online. I haven't so far in iRacing, and I've done quite a few official Time Trail events, qualifying sessions and races. The steering feel and force feedback is the best of the bunch, so I don't know why, but something is not right. I never really feel like I'm fully in control of the car or it has much weight. The way it looks, the way it sounds and how it controls plays a part I guess. And the cars you get to drive, or lack of. I really like the debris and smoke effects they added recently though, much like what we have seen in GT5. It really adds to the feeling when you race - eye candy like this makes a difference for all the naysayers out there who poo poo eye candy....


The GT5 TT also seems to be the only game where the rate you apply the throttle makes a big difference, not just how much. It matters a little in iRacing, but not to the same degree. In LFS it doesn't seem to matter wether you mash the pedal quickly or wether you ease into it.
There is not only slip angles, but slip curves to work with.
At first I hated this and it felt alien, and I couldn't figure out why the car was losing control , but like I said before once you get used to the physics it feels second nature and I can read what the car is doing and make it dance.

As far as force feedback goes, you can turn off centre spring force, to make the PC games function like they should but you can't in the GT5 TT, so your stuck with good weight transfer effects (feels exactly like iRacing) and a few bumps, but everything else seems to be masked by the centering force. If you turn the FF up, you just get more centring force.
I can feel a bit of the natural wheel positioning when you over steer, but it's nowhere like as strong in LFS. Maybe LFS is exaggerated though. iRacing is somewhere between the 2.

Most PC games have canned FF to communicate grip, engine vibration, braking and other stuff etc, but a real life car doesn't work like that. You get that with the seat of pants feeling. iRacing has more realistic steering and FF effects, like a real car.
So GT5 TT is more inline with that, but feels somewhat vague and lacking some stuff. I can see the bumps in the cockpit, but I can't feel all those high frequency bumps like in iRacing, except for the major ones and going over curbs etc.
You can feel ABS pulsing in LFS through the wheel, which is pretty cool.

LFS has the best connected to road feeling, and that your actually driving something with air filled rubber tyres, but cars don't feel weighty, and the overall physics feels quite soft and doughy. Throttle response is pretty poor, and you never really feel the power and torque of the engines. I have used the LFS tweak tool to up the engines up to 500-600 hp, and it never feels like it.

GT TT feels like your driving on solid rubber tyres as opposed to air filled ones, but weight of car feeling is good.
Tyre model lacks acceleration grip, and has too much braking grip.
Best feeling of throttle response and screaming engine.

iRacing cars don't really feel heavy, or your driving on tyres to me like in LFS, but it models that skipping across the road surface, when the tyres don't bite properly extremely well. Engine sounds not so good. Tyres make as much noise as the GT5 TT as well

Like I said before, if PD improves the tyre model and force feedback, it's gonna be a sweet ride. And best overall package by far.

 

[Organ-Donor]

Nah I'm good, GT5 will be worth the wait.

 

[NoQuarter]

This is not meant to be troll... please keep out from keyboard if youre feeling anger, this is more like reminder for those, who are frustrated about GT5's delaying and delaying.

Actually, AutoAki, this is a very good and introspect post.

Quite a few people in the Gran Turismo community have migrated to real online racing in the last couple of years; Live For Speed, IRacing, RFactor and others on the PC and a plethora of console racing "sims" on the various console systems. It was only natural for PD to follow suit and migrate to OLR as well, but as we who have been hardcore Gran Turismo followers know, PD is notorious for delaying release, which I take as a commitment to their quality control, as irritating as it is.

GT has always, IMHO, led the console field in driving physics, and when coupled with their graphics the franchise has always been THE driving sim for consoles.

But I have to say that physics of some of the PC online sims are superior to Gran Turismo (to those who may respond in a trollish manner to this statement, watch out for that thin ice), and though not always up to par with GT's graphics, some of them have come a long way in that area. I've seen screenshots from IRacing, and it looks outstanding, certainly sufficient for those who participate in that sim for the physics. I have only driven in the LFS sim, and to be honest, haven't been online for a couple of years and I hope they have also improved their graphics.

There are a lot of GT followers that will stay with GT5 as it comes online, and that's fine, but there are many serious sim racers who will migrate to the PC sims such as IRacing, and that is fine, as well.

It is all part of the evolution if sim racing.

edit: typo

 

[AutoAki]

Let me quote myself....

Very nice review Pal!

By the way... have you tested iRacings newest build what changed throttle-mapping totally. It was released some weeks ago when new build arrived. It really improved how gas-pedal inputs effects, and it really changed many things. iRacing staff admitted that they were not give enough thoughts about how throttle-curve actually should be. Before it was more like linear, and we all know thats not how it works in real. Everyone can easily test that in your daily ride... your rpm's aint rising same with gas-input.

I dont remember who from staff it was, who admitted that, but he felt littlebit ashamed that it was needed so long to figure that out.

 

[analog]

Without that I propably could have been blind GT-fanboy till the saga ends...

Speaking as only a partly blind GT-fanboy ( meaning i really, really like GT without being uncritical or trying to defend every obvious blunder they make, especially in their PR department ) i will try to express how i feel about it using the medium of song;

( imagine incredible cheesy tune whilst i'm trying to sing falsetto with a gravelly, husky voice...)

"GT was my first love and it will be my last, GT's of the future and GT's of the past, etc.,etc."

Seriously, i made a decision to restrict myself playing games on my console only, otherwise i probably will open Pandora's Box.
Doesn't mean i don't play other games ( even driving games ) whilst waiting for GT5 and whilst i know hardcore sim-players frown upon GT as being nothing more than a glorified sim-wannabe sprinkled with eye candy graphics
it works perfectly for me.
Just like playing Ace Combat or more recently Il2 Sturmovik worked for me, i am perfectly aware those might not be considered full sims by those who "know" and although i hope GT5 will be as realistic as possible within the context of a console game, i would be perfectly happy if the gameplay would be largely the same as it is now.

 

[kikie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W5F_GeyIMM

Fixed it for you.




I'm a sim enthusiast. My favourite sims are netKar Pro and the rFactor mod based on GTl; Historic GT & TC. I had the oppurtunity to test iRacing extensively and I find netkar Pro better than iRacing. I feels better, more immersive etc.... .

I remember seeing a youtube clip from insideSimracing where they claimed that the netKar Pro physics are at least on par (can someone please tell me if this is the right expression) with iRacing's.

The part of GT5 that I'm most interested in is are the graphics and gameplay. Sometime I like to play a semi arcadish race like GT5. It doesn't always have to be pure hardcore.

So, IMO, the wait is going to be worth it.

I'm going to add something to your thread title:

Thank you PD/Sony about too long wait... and trying to make GT5 as perfect as possible!

 

[Sohvakettu]

While i agree that pc has the best simulations on market the thing i like about GT is the casualness. I just plug the wheel in and drive while with pc sims the experience isn't that simple. I unfortunately just don't have the time these days.

 

[Sele1981]

The GT5 time trial is one of the best sims I played so far... And I played rfactor, GTR2 and so on...

I play FM3 (get my box today), thats arcade/sim but it´s fun anyway

 

[snicker3s]

So basically AutoAki, because of the long wait, you switched to iRacing, fell in love with it and will never come back to GT.

Both games, although both being racing games, have very different strengths and weaknesses. Guess you find the things iRacing is good at important so you probably made a good choice! Bravo and good for you Sir!

Me, on the other hand would never really enjoy iRacing, so I am stuck waiting for Gt5.

GT5P feels now just childish arcade-racer, and what I have seen rumours/videos about GT5, it aint gonna be so much better that I would ever come back.

I know some pc sims are more hard core but to call gt5p arcadish, and even childish??

PS
If you ever find a 3rd game you find even better than iRacing, dont forget to grace the iRacingforums with one of these threads That would only be fair!

 

[CodeRedR51]

nah i'm good, gt5 will be worth the wait.

+1.

 

[AutoAki]

I know some pc sims are more hard core but to call gt5p arcadish, and even childish??

PS
If you ever find a 3rd game you find even better than iRacing, dont forget to grace the iRacingforums with one of these threads That would only be fair!

In many factors compaired to 'hc-sims' it really is. I dont even start to list all those things cause we all know them... numerous whinging threads about lacks supports that I'm not the only one. When you have adapted to 'real-life' consequences, strategies, and driving-technics when racing in sim, there is no way GT5P would give kicks anymore.

In iRacing member-forums people are actually very openminded when it comes ask about other sims too. Very many of them still play a lot another titles too, cause they are more relaxing... every race dont count, like in iRacing. If iRacing developers would be as arrogant and poor with public relations between customers, like PD... I definitely would praise about some other title even it would not be better than iRacing.

 

[phil_2001]

Good for you, have fun with iRacing. I can never get into PC sims because they seem less polished than GT. In iRacing cars look at bit like they slide above ground(like in NFS SHIFT), so it's unrealistic enough for me not to even think about it, graphics look artificial too, colors are not as vibrant as real life, textures so so etc. But I'm glad you are enjoying it, don't forget to give GT5 a try when gets out. 👍

 

[G.T.Ace]

I played all the major Sims except iRacing, i drive all with controller (i have a handicap, so no wheel for me), i use a DualShock 2 on PC, so its pretty similar to the SIXAXIS/DS3. Calling GT5 childish is a bit of a stretch and calling the TT demo arcadey is just dumb.

Everything you wrote is a pure rant, i know enough people who play iRacing and find GT5 and the TT demo extremely good, including people who already raced in real life.

 

[phil_2001]

What I never liked in particular about PC sims is that no matter what you get screen tearing, I mean even at constant 60fps you look on the side around and understand this is no Gran Turismo smoothness, there is some kind of delay, hiccups like all the time, that brakes the realism a bit. The graphics in absolutely all PC sims I played look cartoony, to me at least. I really believe because I see it and feel it that GT is above all sims I played(never iRacing though), physics wise in the first place.

Also GT is plug and play, while with a PC things are a bit scary when you think about different kinds of incompatibility, even a software in the background can affect the game performance. I hate PC for all kinds of problems that it might bring along the way.

 

[ANFD]

This may be over simplified, but I find PC racers to be so burdened with settings and parameters that it takes quite a bit of time to get a race set up .... so many things to adjust. Since I am barely computer literate, I find it very difficult to get all the settings correct, so that the game will run without glitching and locking up.

Console racers are just so friendly They all work exactly the same even though each requires it's own configuring. I simply slip the disk in and in a few moments, I'm racing

Some PC racing software comes with embedded programing that acts as a resource hog, slowing down my computer when I try to do HD video editing for instance.

Like life, there are Pros and Cons to PC Sim Racing & Console racing. I just find the ease of use of the console, matched to great games like GT, as the preferable mode of entertainment for me

I devote little energy toward things that I have no control over, such as the release date of my favorite game. I find other ways of entertaining myself and can very easily wait for GT5 to release when Kaz says it is ready for release

 

[eSZee]

yawn. This belongs somewhere else, not here.

 

[haubi]

i really want to try iracing and I've tried lfs as well.
In my opinion, especially when drifting in lfs, pc-sims try to be too hardcore sometimes... When I just think about my first tries in lfs... Even trying to drive in a straight line wouldn't work and I'm sorry but that just doesn't feel like driving a car now I'm not saying that because I can't cope with lfs physics (I'm actually a decent drifter). Thing is drifting in lfs feels like your driving on snow or something similar. Its just ridiculous how slippery everything is. In Gran Turismo on the other hand you have way more grip and having drifted a car in real life I think this is actually closer to reality than lfs.
Ive asked some real life drifter who tried lfs, rfactor and gran turismo 5 prologue and he as well said that gran turismo 5p, even though it wasnt perfect by far, felt best


Is there a demo or something around for iRacing ? really would love to try it

 

[Goldrusher]

Enjoy your PC sims, but don't trash talk GT5.

Childish arcade racer.

 

[snoopybg]

I'm on both sides on this one. I WILL buy GT5 if it comes out and play it with pleasure. But on the other hand that idiotic wait made me switch for a while to PC racing. It's very different and offers many thing GT5 will never have.
It's very important to know the limits of GT5. Some people seem to disregard them and think of it as the holy graal, which it is not.

 

[evilfoxhound]

GT5P feels now just childish arcade-racer

Writing this on a GRAN TURISMO FAN FORUM just screams Troll/Attention seeker. Sorry.

 

[GlobeKIDD]

I remember when everyone on the Forza forums were making fun of PD taking so long and how forza could get two-three games out in the time of PD making one.

Then after Forza came out, me and at least all of my friends list said screw you forza, you suck.

Now were just anticipating the GT5 wait and i've already gone out to get my PS3 (since my dad's a nazi about his), and a G27.

 

[Hypo_Pylon]

I found the physics in the tt demo were huge improvement over prologue for me. GT5 is heading in the right direction, and I will be more than happy if they stayed this way for the full game. It's not all about the racing though is it? The Gran Turismo series has always offered much more than that. The collect 'em all aspect of GT really appeals to me.

 

[Jim Prower]

One of the things I like about GT is that I don't have to buy a thousand-dollar monster of a PC just to run it. Not that if I had one, I wouldn't play other driving sims, but to really have the reliability of internet connection, graphics, and speed, you've gotta have something more than a computer bought 2 years ago at Wal-Mart on clearance. and a wheel, which is more money.

It's not that I don't want to play PC driving sims, but that I can't afford to, at least, can't afford to play them well. The hardware's too expensive for me at this point. It's nice to have something relatively unexpensive that delivers an authentic experience...even if it's just through a controller.

 

[Captain Roh]

@ OP:

GTPrologue is a demo! Its a demo and its being compared to one of the best racing sims on the PC.

Not only that but race sims like rFactor are all about online competetive racing. Gran Turismo has never had a comprehensive online mode so they aren't even in the same genre as it were.

Wait until the finished article is available for comparrison. You can bash the GT series all you like then if you still feel the same, but honestly, apart from haters and attention seekers, i dont expect anyone to complain about GT5.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

The driving experience in the top PC and console sims is so close it's often down to personnel preference which one comes out on top.

Some wish to drive a NASCAR in iRacing at 100% race length with authentic rules, personally I prefare just to hotlap my favourite cars and tune/set them up.

 

[chromatic9]

I'll hopefully be checking out iracing this summer. The package is more interesting now but the car list is still disappointing for my tastes.

And you don't need £800 or a $1000 PC to run these games. Crysis from 2007 is still the benchmark and the prices are really low for a top notch set up.

You can run everything very easily at 1920x1200 60fps apart from Crysis for £200/$300 if you build it yourself or go to your local indie PC shop, plus HDMI output on cards is standard. And latest Graphic cards are overkill for anything. £500 could get you a killer gaming PC with DX11.

For UK people iracing has Silverstone and Brands Hatch. And for people in the North West of England is great news that Oulton Park is coming to iracing, yes that's right boys, Oulton Park.

Also people who like graphics, iracing is said to have some graphic improvements coming.

 

[AutoAki]

I'll hopefully be checking out iracing this summer. The package is more interesting now but the car list is still disappointing for my tastes.

And you don't need £800 or a $1000 PC to run these games. Crysis from 2007 is still the benchmark and the prices are really low for a top notch set up.

You can run everything very easily at 1920x1200 60fps apart from Crysis for £200/$300 if you build it yourself or go to your local indie PC shop, plus HDMI output on cards is standard. And latest Graphic cards are overkill for anything. £500 could get you a killer gaming PC with DX11.

For UK people iracing has Silverstone and Brands Hatch. And for people in the North West of England is great news that Oulton Park is coming to iracing, yes that's right boys, Oulton Park.

Also people who like graphics, iracing is said to have some graphic improvements coming.

Youre so spot on with those comments about technical requirements. It really aint ask about expensive monster PC... like I said, I bought few years old DIY gaming-PC from some WoW-player cause he wanted to build high end machine. It runs iRacing approx 120fps when I have some high-res textures and extra shadows turned off... and I mean in race with over 20 others in grid too.

Second thing what really makes me happy that I took the risk and jumped to PC-simworld is, that nowadays I can whenever I want, build/upgrade/overclock computers like real computer nerds! When I received my PC, first of all I opened it and started to figure out what is all that mess about building your own machine... and wow, everything is just 'plug-in and play' imo! I was in impression that it's something like rocket-science atleast, but no. It's just a myth, and when I say it you better believe it. When I was still in school, we had typing-machines there, so I really did not know anything about computers... today I can overclock processors from bios!


ps. All those guys who will give iRacing a try, or already are in there... just PM to me. It would be fun to schedule us to the same Spec Racer or Radical race/practice session... maybe create own hosted-session too if there is enough GTP's. Nowadays when own paints are possible, would be funny to create GTP-skin and use it there.

 

[Earth]

I have GTR2 and rFactor, probably put 20 hours total into them. The way GT games are laid out and executed far exeeds them.

PC sims are just about racing, GT is somuch more. The career mode sets it apart from PC sims

 

[Paulie]

Gran Turismo, even if not completely accurate simulation, translates real cars into the game extremely well, the sounds, appearance and handling attributes are incredible. Racing a relatively accurate Holden Monaro against a relatively accurate Ford Mustang is where it's at for me (i.e. that genre of racing). PC sims seem to simulate real physics very well, but don't provide totally accuarte interpretations of many cars, and even then it's normally only racing cars. This goes for sounds as well, I watched an rFactor V8 Supercar lap on YouTube, and the V8 sound from the game was AMAZING, but it didn't actually sound accurate to a V8 Supercar, more like a Group C Touring Car of the old days. GT5 will have individually recorded engine notes of every car, so even if the sound quality doesn't end up blowing us away, it will actually sound like the car it's meant to be.