Thank you PD

[kimi123]

Forza game looks good in photomode only get your facts right

Please don't turn this into another Forza/GT5 picture slap fight.





A slightly higher resolution.


Which make up 1/5th of the roster in the game. The rest of which looking exactly like they did 7 years ago, or in some well-documented cases, even worse.


Quantity of cars in the game means absolutely nothing for this discussion.


Being pegged at 60FPS but barely ever staying there, and suffering from constant screen tearing as a result, is really no better than simply locking it at 30. Which is irrelevant, because many other racing games on the PS360 run at 60FPS anyways.
Other racing games also tend to not have PS1-quality alpha blending, or contain shadows that turn to static fuzz when the car is more than 10 feet away from you. Or have textures randomly disappear when you get near them.

What are you talking about. GT5 support 720P and at 1080P mode it runs at even higher resolution. In game car detail is more than any other racing game and I am talking about number of AI cars which is also more than 8 cars. The game has some graphic glitches but overall it does more than other racers TBH

 

[LeftyWright69]

Do all New Yorkers like little blue rainbow horsie icons.... lol

 

[Tornado]

So you compared some standard cars with cars from forza 3. What does that prove? Compare some premium cars to forza 3 and they look better.

Regardless of whether or not people ignore them to forward there arguments, the Standard cars are just as much a factor in the "graphics" portion of the game as the Premiums.

Forza game looks good in photomode only get your facts right

This is pretty funny coming from you after the arguments you have put forth in this thread.

What are you talking about. GT5 support 720P and at 1080P mode it runs at even higher resolution.

I hope you aren't under the assumption that GT5 actually renders at 1080P. Because it doesn't.

In game car detail is more than any other racing game

For 1/5th of the cars in the game.

and I am talking about number of AI cars which is also more than 8 cars.

Still irrelevant. You know why "insert game here" doesn't have 12 car races in the game? Because it would lead to slowdown. You know what GT5 does have because there are 12 cars in almost every race? Slowdown.

You can't act as if "oh boy 12 car races" is 100% positive for GT5 over other games when it directly causes problems for the game.

The game has some graphic glitches but overall it does more than other racers

Alpha blending. Texture corruption. Screen tearing. Slowdown. Shadow distortion. These are just some of the things that other races do better than GT5. In fact, there were PS1 games that had better alpha blending than GT5 does.

 

[trk29]

@Terronium-12
I have to be honest it seems like you have more disklikes about GT5 than likes. You make valid points but some are your opinion, I think the rain and snow animation on the windshield are very well done and are a nice addition to the game but there are a lot of negatives to which you have pointed out so I will not.

 

[Tornado]

I think the rain and snow animation on the windshield and are very well done and are a nice addition to the game

Those are absolutely nicely done, I agree, but those weren't what I was talking about.

 

[BarronGeddon]

Regardless of whether or not people ignore them to forward there arguments, the Standard cars are just as much a factor in the "graphics" portion of the game as the Premiums.

Exactly. You can't use one as an argument whilst ignoring the other. Rendering his point useless. Much like yours, unless re-wording what someone else has said while completely missing their point has a use.

 

[kimi123]

Regardless of whether or not people ignore them to forward there arguments, the Standard cars are just as much a factor in the "graphics" portion of the game as the Premiums.


This is pretty funny coming from you after the arguments you have put forth in this thread.


I hope you aren't under the assumption that GT5 actually renders at 1080P. Because it doesn't.


For 1/5th of the cars in the game.


Also irrelevant. You know why Forza doesn't have 12 car races in the game? Because it would lead to slowdown. You know what GT5 has because there are 12 cars in almost every race? Slowdown.


Alpha blending. Texture corruption. Screen tearing. Slowdown. Shadow distortion. These are just some of the things that other races do better than GT5. In fact, there were PS1 games that had better alpha blending than GT5 does.

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/37754557.gif/

Forza in game car models are quite inferior this has been debunked, you need to get your facts right and its max res is 720P with 8 cars. GT5 runs smooth compared to other racing games with more cars on track with more detail. A game like Crysis2 which drops fps from 30-22fps is clearly noticed. 60fps or an avg of say 52fps is not.

 

[Terronium-12]

@Terronium-12
I have to be honest it seems like you have more disklikes about GT5 than likes. You make valid points but some are your opinion, I think the rain and snow animation on the windshield are very well done and are a nice addition to the game but there are a lot of negatives to which you have pointed out so I will not.

Really? I said that? Thank you for pointing that out to me...

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/37754557.gif/

Forza in game car models are quite inferior this has been debunked, you need to get your facts right and its max res is 720P with 8 cars. GT5 runs smooth compared to other racing games with more cars on track with more detail. A game like Crysis2 which drops fps from 30-22fps is clearly noticed. 60fps or an avg of say 52fps is not.

Are you seriously suggesting the human eye is incapable of discerning an 8FPS drop? Which, by the way you reference in both of your examples. Fail, much?

 

[trk29]

Really? I said that? Thank you for pointing that out to me...

uhh.. Hey smartass I was actually trying to tell you I understand all you are saying but not everything in the game is crappy.

If you thought I talking down you for some weird reason I'm sorry to disapoint you, because I was not.

 

[advan031]

Comparing GT5's graphics against Forza and Shift 2 is a total joke...lmao

I'll give u GT5 non premium cars looks like utter crap but no game at this time can touch the premium cars.

 

[BarronGeddon]

Are you seriously suggesting the human eye is incapable of discerning an 8FPS drop? Which, by the way you reference in both of your examples. Fail, much?

He's saying that 27% drop in FR (30-22) is more noticable than a 14% drop in FR (60-52).

Meme much?

 

[Terronium-12]

uhh.. Hey smartass I was actually trying to tell you I understand all you are saying but not everything in the game is crappy.

Challenge: Show me where I said what you're accusing me of, and then once you've failed doing that (and you will fail) I want you to look in the mirror, and call yourself a jackass.

 

[BoneSawTX]

and yet GT5 had not been back in my ps3 since getting Shift2. Graphics may not be at the premium cars level but they're pretty good and the racing/game play is 100 times better.

 

[trk29]

Challenge: Show me where I said what you're accusing me of, and then once you've failed doing that (and you will fail) I want you to look in the mirror, and call yourself a jackass.

Unless you are driving in the wet. Or snow. Or dirt. Or spin your tires. Or have more than 3 cars on screen. Or are driving a Standard car. Or are driving on certain tracks (Monza, SSR7, SSR5, etc.). Or, occasionally, just because.

I love challenges.

I am referring to this post where you said the graphics are amazing unless it is raining and snowing which is your opinion. And that is all I was saying everything else I agree.

 

[Terronium-12]

 

[trk29]

^ I knew it would be a waste of time to quote you.

 

[Terronium-12]

^ I knew it would be a waste of time to quote you.

Where did you quote me, other than what I said directly above you? Where?

I want you to re-read the user names and then get back to me...

 

[Midnight Snacks]

Is this going to be one of those epic threads?

 

[BarronGeddon]

In trk's defence - how many people have a rainbow horse avatar on a gt forum

And not just that but also use the same eye bleeding font.

 

[Terronium-12]

In trk's defence - how many people have a rainbow horse avatar on a gt forum

And that has what to do with reading comprehension?

 

[Tornado]

Much like yours, unless re-wording what someone else has said while completely missing their point has a use.

I trust you'll be able to show where I did this then.

He's saying that 27% drop in FR (30-22) is more noticable than a 14% drop in FR (60-52).

Frame rates don't work in percentages.
8 FPS is 8 FPS.

Forza in game car models are quite inferior this has been debunked,

That's fantastic. What about the Standard cars? Because, as BarronGeddon said, you need to compare everything.

BTW, I'm not interested in going over the same tired and ill-informed arguments that date back to November. That should be obvious from when I said "Please don't turn this into another Forza/GT5 picture slap fight."
I'm talking graphics as a whole. Not just how many polys the GT5 models have, because that doesn't mean anything.

and its max res is 720P with 8 cars.

That's nice. GT5 runs about a 30% over 720P with 12 cars, and suffers for it constantly.

GT5 runs smooth compared to other racing games

It doesn't.

with more cars on track with more detail.

Unless any of the situations that I mentioned way back in post #19 are happening.

A game like Crysis2 which drops fps from 30-22fps is clearly noticed. 60fps or an avg of say 52fps is not.

You see, now you are just talking nonsense. An 8FPS spread is easy to see, be it 60 FPS or 30 FPS. And if it constantly switched between the two, like GT5 does, it would be even easier.


Also:

you need to get your facts right

You really need to stop saying this when it is pretty clear you are having trouble understanding any of the arguments in this thread.

 

[trk29]

And that has what to do with reading comprehension?

I'm sorry I mis quoted you but when two people have the same little horse and same color font it through me for a loop. So my bad.

Now I have no problem with reading comprehension. So get off of your high (I mean little rainbow) horse.

 

[Terronium-12]

I'm sorry I mis quoted you but when two people have the same little horse and same color font it through me for a loop. So my bad.

Now I have no problem with reading comprehension. So get off of your high (I mean little rainbow) horse.

If your ill-attempt at wit relies upon my choice of avatar you'd might as well stop while you're still behind.

 

[BarronGeddon]

I trust you'll be able to show where I did this then.

Why do you need showing twice?

Frame rates don't work in percentages.
8 FPS is 8 FPS.

That makes no sense you realise? It's not about frame-rates working in percentages. It's about someone misinterpreting a post.

 

[trk29]

If your ill-attempt at wit relies upon my choice of avatar you'd might as well stop while you're still behind.

No I like it I think it is cute. I was thinking of changing to that and making my font gray.

 

[Tornado]

Why do you need showing twice?

Because otherwise I'm going to have to assume you are taking the piss because you don't like where the argument is heading. Particularly when you are accusing me of misrepresenting his arguments when you can't possibly know what those arguments are intended to be either.

That makes no sense you realise? It's not about frame-rates working in percentages. It's about you misinterpreting that guys post. You're still doing it infact.

Then, again, point out specifically what you mean or shut up. Perhaps I am reading into what he is saying incorrectly, and responding as such. If so, please point it out. But until I'm told exactly why I'm doing it incorrectly, I have no interest in doing it any differently.

 

[BarronGeddon]

Jeeesus even I'm getting confused to who I'm talking to now >_<

Especially when you start quoting what I've said to Terronium-12 with that same grey front.

OK my first point was that the guy comparing forza 3 screens with gt5 standard screens had no point. To emphasize the point that he had no point I pointed out that you can just as easily compare premiums pointlessly. You then pointed out that standards are as important as premiums which I thought was kinda pointless considering that it had been my point originally.

2nd point. I'm not saying percentages are a measure of FPS. I never said that. I was simply using a mathematical explanation to clarify to Terronium-12 that he had misinterpreted another post. And my point stands along with that original post. An 8 FPS drop is more noticeable on a game running 30 FPS than it is at 60 FPS. It's a bigger percentage drop and therefore a before and after comparison is much more noticeable.

Clear? Good.

 

[kimi123]

I trust you'll be able to show where I did this then.


Frame rates don't work in percentages.
8 FPS is 8 FPS.


That's fantastic. What about the Standard cars? Because, as BarronGeddon said, you need to compare everything.

BTW, I'm not interested in going over the same tired and ill-informed arguments that date back to November. That should be obvious from when I said "Please don't turn this into another Forza/GT5 picture slap fight."
I'm talking graphics as a whole. Not just how many polys the GT5 models have, because that doesn't mean anything.


That's nice. GT5 runs about a 30% over 720P with 12 cars, and suffers for it constantly.


It doesn't.


Unless any of the situations that I mentioned way back in post #19 are happening.


You see, now you are just talking nonsense. An 8FPS spread is easy to see, be it 60 FPS or 30 FPS. And if it constantly switched between the two, like GT5 does, it would be even easier.


Also:

You really need to stop saying this when it is pretty clear you are having trouble understanding any of the arguments in this thread.

Not really. You do not know what you are talking about. I am giving all valid reasons like resolution, number of cars on track, number of detailed cars. Moreover fps drop for 60-52 for example is not noticeable compared to 30-22fps. Movie runs at const 24fps. Game at 60 or even 50fps won't make difference but since refresh rate works only like 30hretz and then double so 30,60,120,240 are possible for TV. That is the reason they cannot make the game at 55 or 50fps.

Other things like weather effects is obviously putting more strain on the game so there have to be some compromise. There is always trade-off and programmers have to balance it. But as I said all things considered GT5 is doing many things at screen with high fps is remarkable. You don't understand most things and complexities of it. This game is not made by some internet warrior on forums. It is made by experts and it is not possible to get everything right.

 

[budious]

Not really. You do not know what you are talking about. I am giving all valid reasons like resolution, number of cars on track, number of detailed cars. Moreover fps drop for 60-52 for example is not noticeable compared to 30-22fps. Movie runs at const 24fps. Game at 60 or even 50fps won't make difference but since refresh rate works only like 30hretz and then double so 30,60,120,240 are possible for TV. That is the reason they cannot make the game at 55 or 50fps.

The difference with movies is that they use motion blurring in frames which your visual cortex seamlessly pulls together to produce a sharper image. Freeze a dvd or blu-ray and study a fast paced action scene frame by frame; CGI shots tend to be less blurry but live action shots have a bit of bleed to them. Since 3d graphics rely on real time rendering when you pause the frame is sharp like a photo, it takes more frames of animation to deliver a smoother transition than if there was a slight motion blur added to each frame.

Also, the rendering rate of the GPU does not limit the frame rate to the television, there is a separate component which reads the frame buffer and transmits the most recent content to NTSC, PAL, ATSC (digitals). This is why you experience tearing when the frame buffer is not being updated in a timely enough manner. The TV is receiving 3 frames on a frame of rendering, followed by 2 frames of another, followed by 3 of a third, etc.

 

[kimi123]

You are right about torn frames if it is not synchronized properly to frame buffer. Double, triple buffering or v-sync should be done but those again will have drawback on the quality of graphics.

GT5 is trying to do many things and it is not perfect but they can improve it next time.

This is good enough for now