The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

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SagarisGTB
That looks like a blatant contradiction to me.

The week-to-week variables I previously mentioned include luck (right place, right time and wrong place, wrong time), mechanical reliability, pit stop performance and team strategy. Over the season, variables include car and tires suiting one's driving style. Driving performance is obviously a huge factor in terms of points earned, but to judge drivers solely by the points table without any other considerations is terribly misguided.
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Wow I forgot this conversation was still going on. Lol. Ok.

It may look like a contradiction because you are concentrating on one little bit of my post, if you read on I explain all I say. I said that it was all a team game, and yes there are other variables, but the main reason for drivers getting points is their talent. This much you have just admitted.
 
nealcropper
It may look like a contradiction because you are concentrating on one little bit of my post, if you read on I explain all I say. I said that it was all a team game, and yes there are other variables, but the main reason for drivers getting points is their talent. This much you have just admitted.
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So Timo Glock doesn't have any points because he sucks? Oh wait. :boggled:
 
No, I never said anything like that. What I am saying is that Timo Glock hasn't scored any points yet because he isn't as good as the people that do.

Except now your talking about a team that doesn't have the budget of some of the others, so that has hampered him some yes, but IF Timo was as fast as let's say Groesjean or Paul Di Resta then would he not be at a team that does have a better budget?
 
nealcropper
No, I never said anything like that. What I am saying is that Timo Glock hasn't scored any points yet because he isn't as good as the people that do.
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Haha I think you missed the sarcasm in his post.
 
MUSC4EVER
Y'know..Ferrari said that they are considering three drivers for Massa's seat, so we all think that Di resta and Hulkenberg are two of them but, but whos the third? Grosjean??
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Valentino Rossi!
If only....
 
nealcropper
No, I never said anything like that. What I am saying is that Timo Glock hasn't scored any points yet because he isn't as good as the people that do.

Except now your talking about a team that doesn't have the budget of some of the others, so that has hampered him some yes, but IF Timo was as fast as let's say Groesjean or Paul Di Resta then would he not be at a team that does have a better budget?
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What a twisted logic, you really want me to explain why Glock isn't in a position to score points?

Fine then:
-Quite fricking clearly he can't score points as he is in a car that cannot. You put any driver in a Marussia - Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton..anyone - they would not score points either. Hence this "points = largely skill" logic is pretty flawed.
-Glock isn't in a better team because in 2009 the team he was in left the sport. He didn't have many options and didn't bring money, so he ended up at Virgin/Marussia as they wanted an experienced and skilled driver to lead the team. The reason he is still there is because 1.) he still doesn't bring money to grab a seat elsewhere and 2.) he's easily forgotten about now - which in turn is caused by the earlier point about being in a crap car.

If you even begin to take a couple of seconds to think about it, you quickly realise judging a driver's skill just by his points is a pretty flawed logic.

Of course, to score wins, points, championships..you need skill. But you need a lot of other things too. I would never agree that its "the main reason".
The "main reason" is the overall package - its a team sport after all. Why is Alonso top of the table? Because he's bloody good, he's got a reliable car, his team generally give him safe and good strategies, the Ferrari seems to be consistently top 5-6 material and all of his rivals are suffering from severe inconsistencey. Its not "mainly" Alonso's skill that has him there - its a combination of factors.
 
Points can't always tell you who is the better driver over one race let alone a whole season.

Lets say that next season Red Bull come up with a car that is far better than everybody else, but Vettel is way faster than webber in every race. Seb could win every race by 30 seconds from Mark in second place for the first 15 races. But if Seb's car fails him in the last five races and Mark goes on to win, Mark would be champion.

Seb would have proven himself the better driver but through no fault of his own get less points than mark. Would that mean Mark was the better driver? Not in my book. There are too many variables in F1 to use points as the only measure of a drivers ability.
 
Back to the Merc story. I truly believe they will suck at least as much as they did for 3 years in a row. Why? Karma. They dumped Micheal although he was still good and what is equaly stupid in my opnion is, that they've given Niki Lauda a high decision making position in the team. I really do think he's an idiot, I can not stand listening to him when he is talking on German TV during the pre-race show, and I fear every time that his co-interviewer will punch him any second, as he seems to be annoyed by him every time they work together lol.
 
I feel a tiny bit vindicated by them dropping Micheal - they wasted 3 years on him when they could have spent those 3 years grooming their own talent..who would have been much cheaper than Schumacher or Hamilton and proven by now.

To tie it into my previous post, if they really wanted a German national team they could have got Glock cheap in 2010 or 2011 or Hulkenburg or even Sutil. Or how about grabbing Maldonado before Williams did? Or how about putting that Schumacher-salary money to good use and hiring Raikkonen?
Was it really worth it bringing Schumacher back for a bit of publicity and fanfare?

Personally I think it was a waste of a decent midfield seat to prove what? Schumacher is a bit rusty and takes a few seasons just to get back on pace? He didn't bring anything that drivers like Glock couldn't and there are so many drivers out there recently with some potential to unlock.

Personally I feel like Merecedes' decisions are driven by boardroom ideas rather than a race team trying to get the best package together. Even Hamilton is somewhat of a publicity magnet, though obviously he is a coup too for them.

Not that hiring Hamilton is a bad decision for them - of course its a great choice for them. But I just wonder what on earth they were doing with Schumacher if all they were going to do was drop him anyway? Were they really dreaming of "what if Schumacher returns in glorious fashion - driving our car!"? I was saying back in 2009/2010 how he would be rusty, would take some time to get on the pace and then it would be too late as he isn't exactly getting younger. Surely someone at Mercedes would have realised this was a possible scenario?
 
Schumacher rusty? Hm, without his bad luck DNF's he would have more points than Rosberg. Also, Monaco pole position in a hopelessly uncompetitive car, on a drivers track.
 
Alex p.
Schumacher rusty? Hm, without his bad luck DNF's he would have more points than Rosberg. Also, Monaco pole position in a hopelessly uncompetitive car, on a drivers track.
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Well he didn't suddenly forget how to drive, but you can't exactly say he is as good as he was in his glory days. He might be doing pretty well now, apart from DNF's, but think back to when he first started at Mercedes. He looked pretty bad. It's been a few years now and he's definitely gotten back into the swing of things a bit more, but still, I don't think anyone could argue that he's one of the best current drivers on the grid. Maybe he is top 10. Maybe.


Personally, if I were in his position, I would have left and then left for good. He would be a little more legendary than he is now, "Legend returns to sport and does squat"
 
Looks like McLaren's reliability issues strike again. Buttons car needs a new gearbox, 5 place penalty for Suzuka.
 
ND4SPD
Valentino Rossi!
If only....
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Valentino is already driving for Ferrari in the BES. This year he did a few races, and he has said next year they will continue to do so....
 
MUSC4EVER
Y'know..Ferrari said that they are considering three drivers for Massa's seat, so we all think that Di resta and Hulkenberg are two of them but, but whos the third? Grosjean??
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Luca said Perez doesn't have enough F1 experience to be at Ferrari, therefore anyone who would take Massa's seat for 2013 would have to have more than Perez, and neither of those 3 do, unless you get petty and count Perez's 2 non starts last year.

Anything could happen, Rosberg could break contract after what would become that cosy decoy tweet about Hamilton as teammate. Schumacher could slip back in, maybe even Glock or Kovalainen, but of course Massa still has a fair chance of keeping his seat.
 
I'd like to see Luca's face when Perez wins a race next season.
 
Bram Turismo
I'd like to see Luca's face when Perez wins a race next season.
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In monza.

I always follow one midfield racer plus one at the front. 2 years ago it was kobayashi (avatar. Great season when no one expected it, but a bit unlucky), then sutil (hence why I knew what I wrote last post) and now it was Perez. Should start f1 betting lol.
 
Bram Turismo
I'd like to see Luca's face when Perez wins a race next season.
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This.

Ferrari made a huge mistake not getting Perez in their squad. He would certanly be better than Massa even if he has less experiance.

About Valentino driving Ferrari, its never gonna happen. If I remeber correctly he was about 1.5 sec off the pace at Mugello, thats way too much.
 
avens
In monza.
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I'm not sure if I would prefer Perez to conk out before setting a qualifying time, and then charge through the field from last place on the grid to catch Alonso right at the line; or if I'd prefer him to put in a gargantuan effort in qualifying, but lack the pace of the Ferraris in the race and be forced to fend Alonso off for 53 laps.
 
I can imagine all the hand-waving and radio messages now...
 
Why are we talking just next season, there is still a chance Perez could win a race this year, he nearly won at Monza and Sepang already.
I mean, I already thought Luca has had a slap in the face twice - once at Canada and once at Monza.

Considering we have some races ahead that can deliver mixed results (Japan and Brazil) its not out of the question.
 
Montezuma would be furious if his judgement of Perez is wrong.

But he's a good driver, all the best to him at McLaren.
 
I still think its basically confirmation that they're after Vettel. They don't want to sign anyone long-term.

I guess the real confirmation will come when they sign Hulkenburg or someone who has the same experience as Perez - really its about signing someone for only a year before they presumably sign Vettel. The question seems to be whether they keep Massa again or give a young driver the chance of a lifetime for only 1 year.

Kobayashi to Ferrari anyone? :D
 
When are we going to hear something from Alguersuari?
 
I'd be delighted if they took Sutil in. Should be cheap, should be quick, cause no troubles (erm ... lock him at night though, just to save him from himself)
 
hehe. Nothing would make me more happier (being a fellow Scot) is seeing Di Resta in that Ferrari seat.
He has the talent and consistency to pull it off. Unfortunately there is a problem with Massa possibly not leaving and Alonso had made it clear he doesn't want Massa to leave, and, if he does he has to be better than Massa is now or ever has been on track and as a person.

I guess Massa has untill the end of the season to pull out all the stops to secure his seat and after recent races I can see him staying.
 
Hun200kmh
I'd be delighted if they took Sutil in. Should be cheap, should be quick, cause no troubles (erm ... lock him at night though, just to save him from himself)
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:lol:.....:scared:
 
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