The 20 tracks issue is really bugging me

RedSuinit · Nov 4, 2009

Tapey
I got Forza 3 yesterday and as I suspected, the game has just over 20 tracks. For the sake of comparison and for those who might be interested, I'm going to list the tracks here, along with how many variations each track has.

1) Amalfi Coast - 2
2) Benchmark High Speed Ring - 16
3) Camino Viejo - 8
4) Circuit De Catalunya - 3
5) Fujimi Kaido - 14
6) Iberian International Circuit - 6
7) Ladera Test Track - 6
8) Le Mans - 3
9) Maple Valley - 4
10) Laguna Seca - 1
11) Mugello - 2
12) New York - 4
13) Nurburgring - 5
14) Ralli Di Positano - 10
15) Road America - 1
16) Road Atlanta - 2
17) Sebring - 3
18) Sedona Raceway Park - 10
19) Sidewinder Proving Grounds - 18
20) Silverstone - 3
21) Sunset Peninsula - 6
22) Suzuka - 3
23) Tsukuba - 2
24) Twin Ring Motegi - 4

Turn 10 really boosted the track count by making a few tracks that compare to the Nurburgring in size, and chopping them up into as many variations as they could manage. I really think Polyphony Digital will do the same thing, for example a location such as Ralli Di Positano with 10 variations for rally races etc, although obviously a location actually suited for offroad racing.

Here I thought 5 versions of Fuji was ridiculous... HOLY MOTHER OF PEARL! That is just rediculous. "Over 100 courses!" <- Dan Greenwalt. Yeah, by doing a ridiculous amount of track variations for a SINGLE TRACK!

Seismica · Nov 4, 2009

seanchump
I get what you're saying but I don't understand why fan base or following should EVER effect dev time.

Well it happened a couple of months ago when PD decided to go back and basically re-do the damage model. Although officially this didn't delay the release, but i bet it would have been announced for release earlier if they didn't get the negative feedback for the damage.

20 tracks is disappointing, but it is more than satisfactory.

If there is a track editor we will see more and more good quiality real life circuits appearing as time goes on. Maybe they did develop a track editor and decided it was an alternative to sending teams out to model the hundreds or even thousands of circuits on the wishlists on many fan sites.

Devedander · Nov 5, 2009

I think 20 tracks gets a bad stigma because it sounds so low, but if chosen well, the seconds laid out well and the tracks play well, I think the variations of tracks can be a very good number and plenty to have fun with.

I would of course love to see as many as possible, but if the quality is there, the quantity may not be nearly as big an issue as lot of people think.

Bogie 19th · Nov 5, 2009

RedSuinit
Here I thought 5 versions of Fuji was ridiculous... HOLY MOTHER OF PEARL! That is just rediculous. "Over 100 courses!" <- Dan Greenwalt. Yeah, by doing a ridiculous amount of track variations for a SINGLE TRACK!

Yup, they all do it. Saves them money, and improved marketing.

brainfade · Nov 5, 2009

You guys are forgetting how mixed up Japanese to English translations can be, what I think was misinterpreted was most probably the Sensei saying 20 COUNTRIES and 80 TRACKS, evidence of this is the world map in GT5P as pointed out before.

Seismica · Nov 5, 2009

brainfade
You guys are forgetting how mixed up Japanese to English translations can be, what I think was misinterpreted was most probably the Sensei saying 20 COUNTRIES and 80 TRACKS, evidence of this is the world map in GT5P as pointed out before.

There has been a number of those.

20 countries 70 tracks
20 locations 70 tracks
20 locations 70 variations
20 tracks 70 variations

The latest one is:

20 environments, 70 layouts

Its so damn confuzzling :indiff:

Whatever they have done, they are keeping it a secret, keeping us guessing until the last possible moment.

Johnny · Nov 5, 2009

Seismica
...
20 countries 70 tracks
...

I'm hoping for this one.

brainfade · Nov 5, 2009

Seismica
There has been a number of those.

20 countries 70 tracks
20 locations 70 tracks
20 locations 70 variations
20 tracks 70 variations

The latest one is:

20 environments, 70 layouts

Its so damn confuzzling

Come on now use your common sense, you know full well that GT4 has, you guessed it, more than 20 tracks, so the 20 countries/locations(locations makes more sense as you cant really say New York and Laguna Seca are the same area when are far apart) and 70 tracks/layouts makes more sense.

We should really seek clarification on this from PD as I've noticed the levels of confusion it is causing.

Seismica · Nov 5, 2009

brainfade
Come on now use your common sense, you know full well that GT4 has, you guessed it, more than 20 tracks, so the 20 countries/locations(locations makes more sense as you cant really say New York and Laguna Seca are the same area when are far apart) and 70 tracks/layouts makes more sense.

We should really seek clarification on this from PD as I've noticed the levels of confusion it is causing.

They did confirm it, but most peoples view on this forum is that it was lost in translation, as it has been mentioned in so many interviews, but its been translated/interpreted differently each time.

If anyone on this forum speaks Japanese and can dig is up for us, in Kazunori's own words, then we'd all be very grateful

serversurfer · Nov 5, 2009

All we need is one, simple follow-up question…

"My apologies, Yamauchi-san, but exactly what do you mean by 'locations/environments'?"

AleksandarSRB · Nov 6, 2009

I think when he said 20 locations/environments he think on different on real world location like Alps,Grand canyon, Sahara desert...💡

Sturdy · Nov 6, 2009

Seismica
If anyone on this forum speaks Japanese and can dig is up for us, in Kazunori's own words, then we'd all be very grateful

The closest we'll get to that I think is the press release that was on the PD website briefly. This was in Japanese and translated by quite a few members here who either speak Japanese, or have friends that translated it for them.

This is what gave us most of the connotations of '20 locations, 70 layouts'

Seismica · Nov 6, 2009

letdown427
The closest we'll get to that I think is the press release that was on the PD website briefly. This was in Japanese and translated by quite a few members here who either speak Japanese, or have friends that translated it for them.

This is what gave us most of the connotations of '20 locations, 70 layouts'

It is still confusing when you put it like that, 'location' is a very vague term.

I think we should expect 20 tracks and 70 variations, possiblty a few more. If we expect that, we won't be disappointed.

If we expect 20 locations, 70 layouts, with individual circuits not including variations totalling around 30-40, then we will probably be disappointed.

brainfade · Nov 6, 2009

Ok guys, you do the maths and apply your logic and conclude that this thread has served it's purpose:

GTPSP = 35 Tracks (not inluding different layouts)

GT4 = 51 Tracks (not including different layouts)

Bogie 19th · Nov 6, 2009

Seismica · Nov 6, 2009

brainfade
Ok guys, you do the maths and apply your logic and conclude that this thread has served it's purpose:

GTPSP = 35 Tracks (not inluding different layouts)

GT4 = 51 Tracks (not including different layouts)

That just reinforces the view that there is around 20 tracks in the game.

By looking at the linear number sequence, it goes like this:

GT4: 51 tracks
-16
GTPSP: 35 tracks
-16
GT5: 19 tracks

That would be, if you hadn't got your GT4 figure wrong. There is give or take 31 tracks in GT4, and less than that in GTPSP.

HaylRayzor · Nov 6, 2009

PD could settle this so easy by releasing a track list. I find it impossible to believe that the list isn't set at this time.

Lain · Nov 6, 2009

If we get 20 or less tracks, I'll be moderately shocked. But they may release some as DLC.

Black Chamber
Actually, counting your list totals 23 different courses, not 22.

Ok, now it totals 23. Removed the double Tokyo R246 entry, and added Tsukuba since it's seen in the GT5 trailer.

serversurfer · Nov 6, 2009

Bogie 19th
Yup, they all do it. Saves them money, and improved marketing.

If by "all," you mean companies other than PD, you may be right, but PD typically don't. At least, not nearly to that extent.

Seismica
I think we should expect 20 tracks and 70 variations, possiblty a few more.

I don't know why you think that. As I've pointed out several times, that's an average of 3.5 variations per track. GT1 had 1.1 variations per track. GT4 had 1.35 per track. GT-PSP has 1.6 per track. Expecting that number to more than double for GT5 seems kinda silly to me.

If you want to look at other examples to help you guess what to expect, you should look at what PD have done in the past, not what other companies have done. 3.5 is not a reasonable number of variations to expect because T10 are pumping out nearly 6 per track. It's an unreasonable number of variations to expect because PD typically deliver significantly less than 2 per track.

PD and T10 are not the same company. One markets their product with bullet points, buzzwords, and bluster, and the other markets theirs with quality, realism, and attention to detail. One gives you six "tracks" per track, and one gives you one per track. (Many tracks in GT have no variations at all, mind. Of the 40 tracks in GT4, 31 have only 1 layout.)

brainfade · Nov 6, 2009

This is just going round in circles

serversurfer · Nov 6, 2009

Tapey
I got Forza 3 yesterday and as I suspected, the game has just over 20 tracks. For the sake of comparison and for those who might be interested, I'm going to list the tracks here, along with how many variations each track has.

Just out of curiosity, does that list of variations include reverse runs? Because PD don't count those as a separate "track" either.

brainfade
This is just going round in circles

:rimshot:

Seismica · Nov 6, 2009

serversurfer
If by "all," you mean companies other than PD, you may be right, but PD typically don't. At least, not nearly to that extent.

I don't know why you think that. As I've pointed out several times, that's an average of 3.5 variations per track. GT1 had 1.1 variations per track. GT4 had 1.35 per track. GT-PSP has 1.6 per track. Expecting that number to more than double for GT5 seems kinda silly to me.

If you want to look at other examples to help you guess what to expect, you should look at what PD have done in the past, not what other companies have done. 3.5 is not a reasonable number of variations to expect because T10 are pumping out nearly 6 per track. It's an unreasonable number of variations to expect because PD typically deliver significantly less than 2 per track.

PD and T10 are not the same company. One markets their product with bullet points, buzzwords, and bluster, and the other markets theirs with quality, realism, and attention to detail. One gives you six "tracks" per track, and one gives you one per track. (Many tracks in GT have no variations at all, mind. Of the 40 tracks in GT4, 31 have only 1 layout.)

I'd just like to add, a lot of FM3's variations are track sections, not tracks in themselves like Suzuka East etc. The Nurburgring is split into 3 or 4 point to point sections, so users can practice without reversing or re-doing the whole track. This feature has been requested more than once on this forum since i joined, so its likely PD has done this also.

serversurfer · Nov 6, 2009

Seismica
I'd just like to add, a lot of FM3's variations are track sections, not tracks in themselves like Suzuka East etc. The Nurburgring is split into 3 or 4 point to point sections, so users can practice without reversing or re-doing the whole track. This feature has been requested more than once on this forum since i joined, so its likely PD has done this also.

Whether they have or not, unless they've done it to just about every track, that's still not gonna get the average up to 3.5.

Seismica · Nov 6, 2009

serversurfer
Whether they have or not, unless they've done it to just about every track, that's still not gonna get the average up to 3.5.

I still think we should take the 20 as a minimum. With a couple of Nascar, a couple of WRC, some original circuits and a few from GT4 and those from GT5P we are looking at 20-25 minimum.

Rumface · Nov 6, 2009

I'm probably not the first or the last to say this but the little world map on Granturismo Prologue has 18 locations marked on it. :dunce:

So....maybe there are 20 locations which comprise of areas (Like Tahiti with Rally and Road courses like in Granturismo 2) and maybe stadiums (like daytona that has an oval and a road course).

This would make perfect sense because it'd mean there could be 3 tracks on average in each area (Making around 60 tracks or layouts)and then the other 10 can be made up of fictional tracks like High speed ring and Trial Mountain?

That's what I theorise anyway :scared:

I wonder if anyone will actually read all that?

ARDA_TIRMAS · Nov 6, 2009

In GT4 there are 10 location (or country) and 53 tracks with layouts
so in GT5 there are 20 location (or country) and 80 tracks with layouts (60+20 dlc)
this is normal this is GT5

Heath_1 · Nov 7, 2009

Not sure if anyone's already said this, but maybe theres some that are just blank canvas for the track editor feature?

I-Runner · Nov 7, 2009

GT4 : 50 different Tracks and 81 variations (total)

if the last words of katsu are right , i've read about 70 tracks !
So 70 tracks, with the same ratio (81/50) of GT4, give us ~ 100÷110 Variations in GT5!

I hope!!

I-R

NBH · Nov 7, 2009

I just read a magazine featuring GT5 that a mate leant me and it was just as confusing. One part said 20 locations and 70 variations then in a smaller section it said 70 circuits. Sorry but in my book 70 circuits and 70 variations are very different things. In my opinion there is definitely some secrecy around this otherwise PD would just say the number of circuits just like they have already announced the number of cars.

Strittan · Nov 7, 2009

I still think 20 locations is way to little... I mean we already know 12 of 'em, so we'll only have another 8 locations, which means they will let a lot of old ones out. Doesn't make sense...

The 20 tracks issue is really bugging me

RedSuinit

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