The 2010 Nissan GT-R, now with...

[EA11R]

Those owners should go buy a VW. Then they'll get the same $20K transmission, and a free car to go along with it.

Hmm...

Yes, in fact, I do belive I can dig it. Of digging it, I am quite capable. Does anyone think they are more capable of digging it than I?

 

[niky]

The same car, with only FWD, 1/3rd the power and 1/10th the torque. Yup, that's totally the same.

Ford transmissions don't give up? Tell that to Expedition owners... I know a few (including Navigator owners) who've had to replace theirs.

 

[EA11R]

Soo... So that's a no then?

...

I win!

 

[Jay]

If you're of the opinion that a manufacturer has no right to sell you a car you could possibly break through sheer stupidity... you've probably never broken a car in your life... I've gone through three or four different cars... popped one or two engines, broken CV Joints, stripped clutches, cooked brakes... do I feel that I've been shortchanged? Absolutely not... I know that what I do to my vehicles is destructie, and I'm prepared to pay for it.

Exactly, I have also been there done that. I blame no one but myself. (which I knew/know the risks when driving it like that)

 

[a6m5]

My technician buddy says that Nissan has had some trouble with making a transmission sturdy when they need to be sturdy. Case in point, he's seen many Nissan Titan/Armada 4WD transfer cases blown to bits. Because Nissan didn't make them strong enough. Yes, you may agree that driving and turning on dry asphalt is a bad idea, but I think that I've never heard of a Ford, Dodge, Jeep, Chevy, etc, unit blowing up. Those trucks just skid their tires around a corner and make them bald. But no, Nissan's transfer case blows up. And they don't cover it under warranty--they won't address their won underdevelopment.

It just depend on who you talk to. Crappy engine parts, transmission, transfer case, etc. If you go by what the owners & techs say, every company has products on the road with faulty design/parts. Calling just Nissan out on a component that could break would be ridiculous, it's the norm.

 

[niky]

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26268

As we all know by now, our cars have taken a beating over all the controversy of the weak transmissions and launch control and warranty issues, etc. etc.

Because of all this, many GT-R owners (or prospective owners) are feeling that the transmission is incredibly brittle and will just break at any second -- even when just turning a corner with a lot of gas. So many people are scared that at any moment their GT-R transmission is just going to give out.

I would like to share some info from the 'other' side of this issue...

MY CAR.

I now have well over 50 launches on my car. And, no, I'm not worried about Nissan reading this and voiding my warranty -- I voided that with some mods a LONNNNG time ago. ;-)

As mentioned in my "sorry guys, no 10-second GT-R today" thread, I even said 'screw it' and launched the car at the drag strip to try and get us into the 10s (because we had hit a wall at low 11s.) I was willing to risk breaking the transmission. In fact, at one point I *EXPECTED IT TO*. I was willing to have it break and then spend the money to upgrade the transmission anyway.

BUT IT DIDN'T BREAK.

Now, this doesn't mean there may not be 'residual' damage to my gearbox. Those teeth certainly 'could' be getting damaged more and more with every launch. And it may be just a ticking timebomb that's about to break at any moment.

But I really have to wonder if maybe, just maybe, that's not the case. I really think it's very possibly that only 'some' of the GT-R transmissions are weaker than others. Could have been a materials, quality control, or any other manufacturing issue that 'might' (I'm saying might) have produced a run of gearboxes that weren't as strong as others.

My car now has an estimated 600+HP or so now. I launched the living crap out of that car today. Again. And again. And then some more. I was so anxious to break into the 10s that I was ABUSING THE HELL OUT OF THE CAR. Chuck (or anyone else that was there) can tell you. I BEAT ON that GT-R today. We even had a few "AWD Clutch temp is too high" warnings and had to let the car cool off as a result of launching it hard.

I even did several 'Double Launches' -- I would do a launch to try and heat up the tires, then stage make a drag run using launch control again to take off.

My car is currently FANTASTIC. No problems. It runs awesome. In fact, it feels like it just gets better and better.

I'm certainly not encouraging people to go abuse their cars and start launching them -- that's not my point by creating this thread.

I wanted to 'show the other side' of this tranny controversy but sharing MY EXPERIENCE about MY GT-R. I'm abusing it, beating on it, and pushing it to its limits (maybe) and so far so good. A ROCK SOLID CAR. A great experience. KILLER PERFORMANCE.

Do I have a 'freak' GT-R transmission that just lucked out and was made stronger than many others? (Like some engines run stronger) Or is it that maybe a handful of transmissions that have broken are in the minority and maybe have been part of a bad batch of gearboxes? Or is that maybe all the gearboxes are the same, but when you launch the car it will hold up as long as the transmission fluid is at a certain temperature (one theory I mentioned to Chuck).

I obviously don't know the answer to these questions. But I do know this... I'm getting tired of so many people assuming that ALL GT-R transmissions are weak; because there is no definitive PROOF of this just yet. My car is certainly living proof that (at least for now) not all GT-R gearboxes are weak and will break if put under a bit of stress.

As I said, my tranny may break tomorrow. But so far it's holding up like a Champ. (And then some.)

Interesting posts:

- The infamous picture of GT-R transmission kibbles? Russian? dude did 70-100 launches to get that.

- Most press cars broke after 100 launches or more. Some private cars have made it to 200 launches. Most private cars can do at least 100 launches before catastrophic failure. (which is lots more than other LC-equipped supercars can do).

- Some press cars died at less, but this may be due to extreme hoonage (launching before trannies were up to temp, poor maintenance, etcetera)... not surprising, I've driven slushbox press units that have felt like they were going to fall apart... and, as far as I know, only two pulications in our local circle actually do 0-100 tests. (And we're one of them)

 

[harrytuttle]

I'm no stranger to broken gear boxes (busted 1st gear in my old Impreza once or twice, but thankfully not the current one), but what was the deal with the E46 M3 + SMG launch control? Am I wrong in remembering that it's launch control was designed around the balance of awesome launch while being fairly gentle to the drivetrain? And wasn't that the same line Nissan gave last year? Weren't they proud of that feature, saying you could wail on it time and time again? If so, isn't this just hubris in check?

 

[Jay]

And wasn't that the same line Nissan gave last year? Weren't they proud of that feature, saying you could wail on it time and time again? If so, isn't this just hubris in check?

I never remember anything like that.

 

[niky]

BMW's SMG limit was somewhere around 30 LCs in Europe, and 10-15 in the US. Nissan never said anything officially about launch control.

Just a "nudge-nudge-wink-wink" with articles saying that with LC activated, you could out-drag most anything. (Articles not written by Nissan, mind you, but by motoring journalists).

Not that you really need it... some guys are doing 11.6 quarter miles with bone-stock cars without LC... and many high-power GT-Rs are faster with LC turned off.

 

[the Interceptor]

If I remember right, the Nissan representative in Jay Lenos review of the GT-R said that you can do repeated perfect starts with launch control. As it seems, Nissan didn't tell its officials and neither its dealers that people shouldn't be encouraged to use launch control, or that at least the customers should be warned.

 

[Jay]

Well it's all there in the manual.

I know when I get expensive/complicated things I read the manual. Maybe they should do the US standard of plastering warning stickers all over the interior, I am suprised they don't.

 

[the Interceptor]

In general, I agree with you, but I think it's a delicate matter. The NAGTROC-guy who wrecked his gearbox told that he went to test-drive the very GT-R he wanted to buy at the local dealer. He demanded to be demonstrated the "spine-shattering acceleration", on which occasion the dealer who drove the car demonstrated LC several times on a practically factory-new car. That is not only a very wrong thing to do, the dealer should have been handling the whole situation differently.

I do understand that the guy wouldn't have bought the car if the dealer would have refused to demonstrate LC, but the situation we have now isn't exactly better. We don't even know if dealers were told not to demonstrate or encourage the use of LC. Maybe they just didn't know either. The whole situation is just a blur.

EDIT:

... found something interesting over at NAGTROC. Read this thread, in which GT-R owners are being asked whether the dealer where they bought their car made them sign a disclaimer about what (not) to do with your car:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26573

Seemingly, there's a respectable number of owners who never saw that piece of paper. A copy of said disclaimer can be found here:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=17753

Seems like a lot of Nissan dealers didn't do their job.

 

[niky]

And then go over again and read the thread that I posted about back on page two saying that some guys already have over fifty launches on LC... and that, so far, only one private stock GT-R has broken a tranny, and others that have broken them have either performed over 100 launches or are making a crapload of power.

 

[the Interceptor]

Sorry, I don't get our point. How are these things connected?

 

[niky]

It's likely that the drivetrain isn't as fragile as people are making it out to be... which means that mentioning "void" and "warranty" in regards to LC isn't really that necessary.

One thing to note is that Nissan hasn't made up its mind how many launches will void the warranty, so the issue is up in the air... right now, the "VDC off" is just a marker, but Nissan will not automatically void your warranty... they'll review the case first (as they did in the case of the guy in question).

 

[the Interceptor]

I never wanted to imply that the GT-R's drivetrain is fragile. Still, there seem to be huge gaps in communication between Nissan, their dealers and their customers.

 

[a6m5]

I never wanted to imply that the GT-R's drivetrain is fragile. Still, there seem to be huge gaps in communication between Nissan, their dealers and their customers.

I'm under the impression that this is very common. At least with the most dealers in the States. If I wanted to be certain about some information on my car, I would not go just by what my dealer told me. Even if my dealer & the manufacturer communicated well, there will always be some employees who are clueless.

 

[Jay]

I'm under the impression that this is very common. At least with the most dealers in the States. If I wanted to be certain about some information on my car, I would not go just by what my dealer told me. Even if my dealer & the manufacturer communicated well, there will always be some employees who are clueless.

I have found car salesmen (factory dealer) are most always quite clueless of details about the cars as they don't do the extra homework and research the cars they try and sell.

 

[Eric.]

I have found car salesmen (factory dealer) are most always quite clueless of details about the cars as they don't do the extra homework and research the cars they try and sell.

Oh yeah. The guy who sold me the Civic Si said that the only real difference between a normal Civic and the Si is the engine. Riiight. However, I'm sure that they all know most things about the more mainstream cars they sell, such as a vanilla Civic, Accord, or CR-V.

 

[niky]

Actually... the dealership as a whole is where the whole car-owning experience falls apart. It's the combination of uninformed sales staff and unhelpful service staff... coupled with management that's not good at trouble-shooting... that causes problems like this.

I've never found a car salesman who knew as much about their product as I did. Instead of male salesmen with more testosterone than sense (c'mon, go ahead... hit it again!), they should stick with female sales personnel... at least they're nice to talk to...

 

[the Interceptor]

Yes, unfortunately, only very few salesmen know their product. However, as Nissan obviously has made a specific disclaimer for the GT-R, which needs to be signed by buyers and emphasizes on certain aspects of operating this car, one would think a dealer would realize that there's some importance to it.

 

[Jim Prower]

NOW ALSO WITH...

A set of Golden Calipers

Motor Trend has selected the GT-R as Car of the Year.

Fire up your angry E-Mail machines. This is at least somewhat validating for me. (Note: Can't find anything on the website yet, but my MT has come in today...)

 

[nissan tuner]

Nissan is back at it again, seems like the 2010 model is a bit faster than the older GT-R's.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/16/revised-nissan-gt-r-clocks-7-27-56-lap-time-at-the-nurburgring/

 

[Jay]

Impressive, I am sure Nissan has tons of data now to verify it full when the likes of Porsche or anyone questions it.

and to think this apparently isn't even the 'fast' version of the GTR yet (neither is the Spec V).

 

[Leonidae]

Porsche cries foul play, Nissan shaves yet another second off their recent laptime.

 

[lpb-nissan-gt-r]

the things is with the gt-r the engine and transmission are hand built so if you got a transmission from a different gt-r it would not work so i think nissan have to take it bck to the factory too build a new transmission so 20k is not that bad in comparison but they should inform customers if they abuse the lc that it will void the warranty i no if they turn the traction control off the warranty is then void

 

[Jay]

Porsche cries foul play, Nissan shaves yet another second off their recent laptime.

I assume and hope for Nissan's sake they're gathering plenty of proof while they do release these blistering times; if they have learn't anything from last time Porsche cried foul.

if you got a transmission from a different gt-r it would not work so i think nissan have to take it bck to the factory too build a new transmission

It's all done with software, Nissan don't need to build a special trans for a paticular GTR. They get a generic new GTR transmission and calibrate the software (with in-house software) to make it see the new trans as it's own. When these GTR's get older and out of warrenty there will be plenty of hacks to do as you wish.

 

[Jim Prower]

His point was that they're "Hand built..." Yeah. With extremely precise tools. It's not like production variance does not exist in a normal production line, either. I would surmise that GT-Rs are more similar from one car to the next than others because of the care taken in assembling the engine.

This isn't thrown together in some garden shed in the Midlands. (the common conception of "Hand Built car/engine") This is "hand assembly of precision-made parts in a precisely controlled clean room." The problem is that this care in assembly allows engineers to make tolerances rather tight....which doesn't do wonders for, say, transmission durability...

I'm an MFG Engineer. (student.) I'm kind of studying and living these things.

 

[nissan tuner]

GT-R Launch Control Controversy Explained


Wow, I'll have to read one of the 2008 manuals to confirm if this is true or not. Some american magazines and online testers might be sued over a couple of broken transmissions but their argument would be that the owners didn't read their manual.

 

[Jay]

His point was that they're "Hand built..." Yeah. With extremely precise tools. It's not like production variance does not exist in a normal production line, either. I would surmise that GT-Rs are more similar from one car to the next than others because of the care taken in assembling the engine.

This isn't thrown together in some garden shed in the Midlands. (the common conception of "Hand Built car/engine") This is "hand assembly of precision-made parts in a precisely controlled clean room." The problem is that this care in assembly allows engineers to make tolerances rather tight....which doesn't do wonders for, say, transmission durability...

I'm an MFG Engineer. (student.) I'm kind of studying and living these things.

Indeed, Nissan are hand building engines (like many car makers) and transmissions for tight tolerances, in my last post I meant they don't build the trans specially for a paticular car but yeah it's still handbuilt then put into parts warehouse.


Well its good now that Nissan has made the Launch control capable of 3.3 seconds 0-60 with VDC on, that will (should) kill any new warrenty claims problems, interesting he said 4500rpm stall with VDC off before was never launch control but only for pulling out of mud, but yeah have to check a 08/09 manual.