The Bare Necessity - What Do We Really Need?

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What about the new Tata:

video--photo-gallery-of-tata-nano-1.jpg
That couldn't get anymore plain jane, if you tried. :odd:
 
It has a horn and a heater. And seats.
 
You get them without heaters and horns. And probably seats.
 
Nice hearing the support for the Ranger I posted. It just struck me as being fairly close to the bare essentials for a vehicle like that, and in white with plain unpainted bumpers it even looks quite handsome. Don't get me wrong, I like the top of the range, V6 FX4, but immediately you're taking a car that has what you need and adding a load of things that you'd like to it - flash trim, a bigger engine, fancy wheels etc.

It's one of the reasons that you'll often find me in support of base models, cheap and cheerful stuff and so-on. It's getting down to the concept of a car and nothing more. Something you can enjoy at little cost. The more basic you go, the more you go out of your way to make the journey fun, rather than just expecting the car to provide the fun for you.
 
That's what irks me most about car companies these days - Its almost impossible to find a car with the bare essentials as it is. Sure, they make them, but they don't want to sell it to you. Way back in the day, when I was looking at buying a new Mazda3, my salesman was dreading the fact that I was (probably) going to have to order a completely stripped out 2009 model. No one had them in the Michigan, Illinois and Ohio area.

Yeah, adding Bluetooth, 300+ watt stereos, sunroofs, and all that extra crap just adds to what they can charge you for it... Furthermore, how much they make off of it.

Honestly, its the one thing I'm worried about with the launch of the new Fiesta, and eventually, the FIAT 500. I don't want extra crap in the car(s), but will Chrysler and Ford be willing to sell me one without?
 
Rangers Rock. Went mud-plugging in one. These newer models have turbodiesel, a five-speed automatic, locking center differential and LSD. The interior is complete... whatever... but it constantly amazes me how the man in charge of Ranger chassis development (supposedly one of the Ford Europe chassis gurus who worked on Jaguar) managed to actually inject steering feel into the recirculating ball steering rack in the current Ranger.

They ride like crud, the rear seat is pathetic... but... honestly... fun fun fun! I drove one for a week, and I was sad to see it go.




Okay, it s a Mazda, but it's basically a Ford Ranger 3 liter diesel with the front differential removed... still diesel... still unchipped... they've fixed up the rear differential, but you can do nearly the same thing on the stock LSD. Real handy when you need to make a quick 180 degree U-turn in a confined space. :D
 
Yeah, the BT-50 is basically the same as the European Ranger. The USDM Ranger is a slightly different animal. Nice vids (apart from the annoying, screaming gits ruining the sound)! 👍
 
The biggest disappointment of my motoring life in the past year is that the Honda Fit has grown up. I'd been thinking about the Fit for over a year now; it literally did not measure up with reality; without a kid (and all their stuff thereof), it probably would have been perfect.

The second biggest disappointment is that first-generation 1.5 manual transmission variants only goes on sale here secondhand for brief flashes of time before they're snapped up. One day, one of those will be mine.

It only gained 50 pounds of weight. I've driven the 2007 Fit in stick as well. The car hasn't really lost any of its little zing and zip with the size increase.

That's what irks me most about car companies these days - Its almost impossible to find a car with the bare essentials as it is. Sure, they make them, but they don't want to sell it to you. Way back in the day, when I was looking at buying a new Mazda3, my salesman was dreading the fact that I was (probably) going to have to order a completely stripped out 2009 model. No one had them in the Michigan, Illinois and Ohio area.

We're all deceived by car magazines; the automakers and associated suppliers round up a car for their tests and needs. But try to find one with just the options you want, and it's nearly impossible. The problem is that you want the one car they have, so you're against the ropes in the bargaining ring. I've got to hand it to VW, Audi, and Mini; they will still build a car to your specs for no extra cost (just give them a few weeks).

The trouble was finding one that was both a Fit Sport and with a manual. I test drove a manual "base" model with a manual and Sport with a slushbox to compare. And I was luck that there was one xD in the South Florida area with a stick model with no dealer-added frills (except the nicer upgraded stereo and with factory floor mats).

There were two things that got me out of a Fit:

1. Local dealers absolutely refused to budge below 18K, citing demand. Paying cash offered no incentive. Although an old contact at Toyota with former ties at my old Toyota-based biz helped grease the xD purchase, especially since I paid cash...go figure)

2. The Fit was a little too narrow (not "small") for me, my wife, and daughter for a three-hour road trip based on our observations. We took the car seat with us to test it out.

The Mazda dealer wasn't budging either, although there was no market demand mark-up. They had one stick 3i Touring car (black, some options), two stick 3 SV (base, few options), and several 3 Grand Touring (the whole shebang, with 2.3L motor). So they had a surprising number of stick cars in my area.

Options add lots of profit to the dealer (especially dealer-installed options!), the base models really do not. Automatic is a no-brainer, because only about 5-10 percent of cars are demanded in stick. Dealers do not want have inventories of cars that do not move. My exact car was sitting in a lot for 6 months, a "lot queen" as they're known.

The point is, finding an exact car you want in manual transmission is difficult, unless you can wait for the right opportunity or just get lucky.
 
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Way back in the day, when I was looking at buying a new Mazda3, my salesman was dreading the fact that I was (probably) going to have to order a completely stripped out 2009 model. No one had them in the Michigan, Illinois and Ohio area.

:odd:
 
See Pupik's post above, its crazy out here. When my Dad ordered his first 2005 Chevrolet Avalanche, a stripped out LS 4X4 model, it had to be shipped here from Southern Illinois. Everything comes loaded, usually in silver, with everything I don't want. Lame.
 
That's the trouble with building more than you can sell. They want to shift the ones they've already made rather than sell you one to your spec. That's why waiting lists, although frustrating, are a much better indicator that you'll be getting exactly what you want. If you have to wait for it, they're having to build it as soon as they've finished building someone else's.
 
We're all deceived by car magazines; the automakers and associated suppliers round up a car for their tests and needs. But try to find one with just the options you want, and it's nearly impossible. The problem is that you want the one car they have, so you're against the ropes in the bargaining ring. I've got to hand it to VW, Audi, and Mini; they will still build a car to your specs for no extra cost (just give them a few weeks).
Just want to make a quick note & re-enforce this for VW & Audi. The last 3 cars I have looked at recently were the CC & A5/S5. During the option specs sheet, there were several times I noticed that certain packages were thrown in completely free of charge if you wanted them. As Pupik said, I would just have to wait a few more weeks to get what I wanted. That right there, is something I have rarely ever seen in BMW's catalog without a fee being tacked on.

As for Mini, I can't speak for them. Last time I looked at them, every single thing had a price; exterior, interior, techno goodies, wheel finishes, paint, etc.
 
As for Mini, I can't speak for them. Last time I looked at them, every single thing had a price; exterior, interior, techno goodies, wheel finishes, paint, etc.

That's true for the UK too, though it does mean that you can realistically order a car with very little of anything at all and not pay too much for the privelege. Although I was just looking at prices and it disappointed me to discover that the current base-model MINI, the 1.4 One, starts at over £2k more than the base model of the original new MINI did. Which seems a bit of a con considering MINI claim the new one is cheaper to make...
 
All I really need:

power brakes
power steering
ABS
air conditioning (mandatory in the South)
CD Player

It's a damn shame that you have to special order cars without power windows, locks or mirrors. 👎 :grumpy:
 
As for Mini, I can't speak for them. Last time I looked at them, every single thing had a price; exterior, interior, techno goodies, wheel finishes, paint, etc.

Everything comes with a price, and its arguably too much for certain pieces. We just had a MINI dealer open in town last year, as I recall, the only one to open nation-wide in 2008, and they've yet to bring in stripper models. All are fully-loaded Coopers with slushboxes. Its not uncommon to see them scrapping at $30K on occasion.

Same story as everywhere. Want the basics? You have to order it.

=-=-=

Although, I've noticed more of the domestic dealers are carrying stripper models. Several of the first 2010 Mustang GTs have been stripped-out models, and I've seen more stripper HHRs and Cobalts than ever before. Hell, even Malibus and Impalas are coming into dealers in bare trim levels. Its really strange.
 
It only gained 50 pounds of weight. I've driven the 2007 Fit in stick as well. The car hasn't really lost any of its little zing and zip with the size increase.

It's not so much the weight, but the fact that they made it... safer.

While lairy hot-hatch oversteering antics aren't the way most people drive, it's nice to know that it'd be possible if you tried to do it. The old car gave you that feeling. The new one is just a little too competent... a little too much like the Civic. It's still a great car, though.
 
Everything comes with a price, and its arguably too much for certain pieces. We just had a MINI dealer open in town last year, as I recall, the only one to open nation-wide in 2008, and they've yet to bring in stripper models. All are fully-loaded Coopers with slushboxes. Its not uncommon to see them scrapping at $30K on occasion.

Same story as everywhere. Want the basics? You have to order it.

When I got mine you had to order it as they only kept a few on the lot. Very few MINI dealers actually have a sizeable inventory. I want to say MINI of the Hampton's has quite a few cars in stock and they deliver anywhere in the states I believe too.

The MINI is a bad example though, it's a premium small car so selling a stripped out version, at least in the states doesn't make a ton of sense. People who want them are still ready to pay the BMW-tax on them. I agree though many of the options are way over priced. I mean seriously $500 for an HD radio upgrade?

The UK is getting something called the MINI First, which is basically a generic car in the shape of a Cooper. I doesn't have anything on it and I want to say the only standard thing is a CD player. Here is what it looks like.

MINI-First-with-pictures-8-468x319.jpg


It's actually more minimal than the One, which is why I can't see them ever bringing it stateside. People here like their options and like to "personalise" their cars. Selling something at the bare minimum wouldn't work to well I wouldn't think. I have no idea how well that stripped version of the Nissan Versa sold or is selling. I haven't seen one, but then again I rarely see Versa's in the first place.
 
Automakers don't build alot of stripped out cars because they are usually not in high demand. So they build ones that include popular option packages that are more likely to appeal to the customer and thus more likely to sell.

My first car was a 1998 Ford Escort, only options it had was the "sport" package that added alloy wheels and some stupid looking spoiler and auto trans. Other than that it had manual windows, locks and seats, rather drab grey cloth interior. Great air conditioner though, same unit Ford used in big trucks and SUV's, so it turned my little Escort into a meat locker.

It was a fun car. Very reliable and it preserved my virginity through high school.

In college I got my Grand Prix GTP. Has "leather" seats, moonroof, HUD, DIC, heated power seat, CD player. And I gotta tell ya, it would be hard to go back to a stripped out base model again.
 
The UK is getting something called the MINI First, which is basically a generic car in the shape of a Cooper. I doesn't have anything on it and I want to say the only standard thing is a CD player.

But even then it's still £11,000. Did they even look at the competitors on the market while coming up with the First? :lol:

I know I go on about them but a base model 500 is faster and has more room, and yet it's still only £8,500.
 
The UK is getting something called the MINI First, which is basically a generic car in the shape of a Cooper. I doesn't have anything on it and I want to say the only standard thing is a CD player. Here is what it looks like.

Correction: the Cooper is a specced-up basic model. I know the Cooper is the base model in the States but it never has been in the UK. It was always a One with better engine mapping and a white roof rather than a body-colour one. And now, the Cooper is a 1.6 where the One is a 1.4, so they're still different models.

I kind of dislike that the Cooper moniker is used so widely now. It's ceased to become the special model it once was.
 
I think that Mini 'First' thing is ridiculous. A Mini isn't a car you buy because it's well priced, so who on earth is going to choose one that's equipped like a garden shed? They might as well knock £9,000 off and just sell people Mini badges for £2k a piece.

the "sport" package

auto trans.


Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me :p
 
Not really, on most cars the sport package just has slightly better suspension. It normally doesn't affect the drivetrain.
 
I think that Mini 'First' thing is ridiculous. A Mini isn't a car you buy because it's well priced, so who on earth is going to choose one that's equipped like a garden shed? They might as well knock £9,000 off and just sell people Mini badges for £2k a piece.

I would. As long as the engine wasn't the base model. I honestly don't mind not having equipment.
 
Not really, on most cars the sport package just has slightly better suspension. It normally doesn't affect the drivetrain.

I don't think the suspension was any different, although I never drove a non sport escort. It was just appearance as far as I know, alloy wheels and a spoiler.
 
I would. As long as the engine wasn't the base model. I honestly don't mind not having equipment.

Right, so that's one person. Have you got 11 grand? :p

But regardless of that, it's probably not very sensible as I'd imagine nobody will want to buy it off you when the time comes to sell. It's a bit like buying a diamond-encrusted tiara made from plastic.
 
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I dunno. When I go looking for cars, I'm always shopping for the stripped-out models. I don't want the extra fancy crap in there. Its all stuff that is going to go wrong, that I'm going to have to fix or replace. It seems like the MINI First would sell, more or less, to hardcore MINI fans who don't need a whole lot. That's not a bad way to go. I'd say we have a comparable group of people that do the same with Subarus and Volkswagens.
 
I dunno. When I go looking for cars, I'm always shopping for the stripped-out models. I don't want the extra fancy crap in there. Its all stuff that is going to go wrong, that I'm going to have to fix or replace. It seems like the MINI First would sell, more or less, to hardcore MINI fans who don't need a whole lot. That's not a bad way to go. I'd say we have a comparable group of people that do the same with Subarus and Volkswagens.
That's kind of a negative way to look at it Brad. You'll find many of the new features you'll get in cars these days aren't just techno goodies, but things that improve suspensions, engines, etc., & are all things that have just as much an equal chance to go wrong as the original equipment.

Speaking as someone who loves loading up a car on features, I can say from my experience that the inclusion & usage of the items far outweigh the "fear" in them as just another thing to go wrong.

For example, the last 3 things I had to take the Acura in for were the A/C, alignment, & battery; not for the navi., not for the camera, not for anything you normally find on option lists.
On the BMW, they were nothing but service check ups. During my ownership, I've never had to go in to have BMW fix the keyless entry, the iDrive system, the parking sensors, or anything else.


As for the topic, I can easily live without these features, but the manufacturers offer them for a reason. Sure, I don't need the aero kit, or the exclusive leather stitching, or the sport suspension, but I feel just fine paying the extra money to have them if I enjoy what they add to the car.

Frankly, I can see myself having been spoiled by these features as I find it very hard to drive a stripped-down car with no options (& I'm not talking about cars designed like a GT3 RS). They feel plain & boring. I can barely stand driving the Charger Honda rented to me because it has nothing on it.

In all honesty, as long as manufacturers keep offering these "excessive" options we don't actually need, I will most likely keep buying them because I like them.
 
As someone who for the forseeable future can only afford third- or fourth-hand cars, lack of equipment to me certainly means less to go wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'd quite like aircon in my next car, but at the 10+ years old I'm looking at I'll be quite lucky if I get a car where the A/C works perfectly. Same goes for 'leccy windows and so on. Equipment in brand new cars is great - it ceases to be so great for people who buy them numerous years down the line when all the gremlins have moved in...
 
As someone who for the forseeable future can only afford third- or fourth-hand cars, lack of equipment to me certainly means less to go wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'd quite like aircon in my next car, but at the 10+ years old I'm looking at I'll be quite lucky if I get a car where the A/C works perfectly. Same goes for 'leccy windows and so on. Equipment in brand new cars is great - it ceases to be so great for people who buy them numerous years down the line when all the gremlins have moved in...
Well, I don't know your exact current situation, but imo, you should never settle for what you don't want. I mean, things like A/C & electrics windows aren't exactly that difficult to find in used cars. And if that's what you want, again imo, buy a car that has what you want.

I've seen many friends end up buying cars that were missing things they really wanted & became miserable because they settled for less. And they knew since it was a car, it was a big purchase and not easy to go back on.

Again, I don't know your situation or what all you want, but when I look at cars, used or new, I don't settle for anything that I know is not what I wanted.
 
I dunno. When I go looking for cars, I'm always shopping for the stripped-out models. I don't want the extra fancy crap in there. Its all stuff that is going to go wrong, that I'm going to have to fix or replace. It seems like the MINI First would sell, more or less, to hardcore MINI fans who don't need a whole lot. That's not a bad way to go. I'd say we have a comparable group of people that do the same with Subarus and Volkswagens.

I don't think hardcore MINI fans would buy it, hardcore MINI fans are the ones that are dropping $35k-$40 on a Cooper with all the extras then can get.
 
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